User talk:Feynstein

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or , and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 21:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Covid-19 general sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

A community discussion has authorised the use of general sanctions for pages related to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).
The specific details of these sanctions are described here.

Broadly, general sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimise disruption in controversial topic areas. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to these topics that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behaviour, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. An editor can only be sanctioned after he or she has been made aware that general sanctions are in effect. This notification is meant to inform you that sanctions are authorised in these topic areas, which you have been editing. Before continuing to edit pages in these topic areas, please familiarise yourself with the general sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Template:Z33 Doug Weller talk 09:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Blocked

For edit warring at Wuhan Institute of Virology to use prohibited pre-prints in violation of WP:MEDRS and WP:RS, and refusing to back down when it was explained to you that you are in breach, you are now subject to a short block. If you resume when the block expires, you will be blocked for longer. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Currently this is just a standard block, but any future sanctions will be under the General Sanctions outlined above, and will escalate. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:39, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually, no, considering the time that elapsed between your being informed of the General Sanctions applicable to Covid-19 pages and your latest violating edit, I have made this a General Sanction and logged it here. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:44, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and if I can offer a recommendation - when people revert your sanctions-violating edits and explain the problem to you, accusing them of vandalism is really not a good idea. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: The first sentence of MEDRS is : "Wikipedia's articles are not meant to provide medical advice"... This was not medical advice, not at all. There was no mention of any treatment or any advice about COVID symptoms. It simply stated that scientifically, no rock should be left unturned as to the origin of the virus. I think you will agree with me on that. The section is using news stories and Trump quotes, how would that be considered as medical advice? I will appeal that ruling because I find it might carry a purpose to silence me, but I don't want to assume bad intentions. This section was biased towards labelling the accidental lab exposure as conspiracy when the reality is that we don't know. Refusing to back down against removal of referenced content? What is that? I want to be very neutral here and I don't have bad intentions while writing this. Let me finish what I was planning to write XD i've been trying to upload this twice hahaha. By the way, my adding of this paragraph was before the sanctions where introduced to this page. I find that the removal of this paragraph is very much in violation of the warning that came after it's first publication. Thanks but no thanks. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 15:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: Please help here I have been blocked unjustly.

• The notice explaining the General Sanctions applicable to Covid-19 articles, at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Coronavirus disease 2019 and linked above, is very clear. It says "Since this is a rapidly evolving area with instances already documented of poor or fraudulent research, preprints and other non-peer-reviewed sources should not be used" (original emphasis). You do not have the right to override that on an individual basis according to your own preferences. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
• I'll just add that this might seem harsh, but we have a lot of Covid-19 articles and many many people editing and updating them every day, with many people wanting to introduce controversial material. Due to the critical importance of the subject, and that we are often getting close to overwhelmed by people arguing, the strict enforcement of these sanctions has become necessary. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: The first sentence of MEDRS is : "Wikipedia's articles are not meant to provide medical advice"... This was not medical advice, not at all. There was no mention of any treatment or any advice about COVID symptoms. It simply stated that scientifically, no rock should be left unturned as to the origin of the virus. I think you will agree with me on that. The section is using news stories and Trump quotes, how would that be considered as medical advice? I will appeal that ruling because I find it might carry a purpose to silence me, but I don't want to assume bad intentions. This section was biased towards labelling the accidental lab exposure as conspiracy when the reality is that we don't know. Refusing to back down against removal of referenced content? What is that? I want to be very neutral here and I don't have bad intentions while writing this. Let me finish what I was planning to write XD i've been trying to upload this twice hahaha. By the way, my adding of this paragraph was before the sanctions where introduced to this page. I find that the removal of this paragraph is very much in violation of the warning that came after it's first publication. Thanks but no thanks. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 15:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: Please help here I have been blocked unjustly.

• The notice explaining the General Sanctions applicable to Covid-19 articles, at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Coronavirus disease 2019 and linked above, is very clear. It says "Since this is a rapidly evolving area with instances already documented of poor or fraudulent research, preprints and other non-peer-reviewed sources should not be used" (original emphasis). You do not have the right to override that on an individual basis according to your own preferences. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: I accept this sanction, but not on the basis of MEDRS. Are you overlooking that? Why don't you explain to me how it violates this specific sanction? And I wasnt made aware of the Coronavirus disease 2019 sanction. What people where warning me against is MEDRS, not the COVID thing, that's how I understood it. I don't mind being blocked of this page anyway because I intended to distance myself from such topics. You just blocked me and publicly shamed me by adding me to the public lists. I said in the talk section that I would be removing my edit if any administrator askmed me to do it. But no instead of reading my last message you went ahead and shamed me... thanks very much. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 16:08, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: I wasnt aware of the contested sources needed consencus thing. I ask you to remove my inclusion to the public sanctions page please and I will refrain from further comments on that matter. And any covid related stuff as it seems everyone is politically biased. Then again, I reapeat: "By the way, my adding of this paragraph was before the sanctions where introduced to it". This should make my revert not regarded by the sanction I believe.

• You were given a Covid-19 general sanctions alert at 09:54, 21 May 2020 (above), which linked to the details of the sanctions. You violated those sanctions at 14:05, 21 May 2020, more than four hours later, after people at the talk page had tried explaining to you and warning you. And you don't get to negotiate and set your own conditions such as requiring an admin to tell you - anyone has the right to warn you. But, as you have agreed to follow the sanctions, I will shortly unblock you. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: I really dont understand what just happened in fact, the more I think of it... I'm very new and I felt as if people where actively trying to silence me, I feel there is a lot of political pressure in this and I'm sorry if I made that mistake. I will be avoiding covid-related pages.

@Boing! said Zebedee: I'm very sorry... will my public appearance on the block page will be removed? I fear this might badly affect my credibility in the X-Ray field :-( .... I'm sorry but I think it was a misunderstanding... PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 16:20, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

As I said above, this might seem harsh, and I'm sorry it happened to you. But we really don't have the resources to engage in back-and-forth argument every single time someone wants to introduce contentious content in this area, and that's really why it happened. Anyway, I've unblocked you now, and I will modify the sanctions log. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I have modified the sanctions log . Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: Ok one last thing please... did it really violated the MEDRS santion? I want to learn from this, but I felt it did not include treatments or advices on health stuff. And you used this sanction to undo my undoing in the commit message and the history page...

WP:MEDRS actually covers all medical content, and the "medical advice" thing is really just part of explaining why we have it. It prohibits the use of non-peer-reviewed sources for any medical information (though there can sometimes be exceptions by prior consensus), and preprints are impliclty included in that - the specific inclusion of preprints in the Covid-19 Sanctions is to make that explicitly clear. I apologise for not making it clear that the violation of the Covid-19 sanctions was the core reason for the block. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:29, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: Thank you. It was indeed unclear and I was not aware of the concensus rule. Is it something that is applied all over wikipedia? Like if someone dislikes my edit he can remove it immediately and we have to come to a concensus? It seems to me that someone could argue once and leave to never come back hence the information would never be added? PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 16:35, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, WP:Consensus is a key policy, and if a change you make is contested then you must seek consensus for its reinstatement. But, the person who reverted you does not have to agree, you just need a consensus of other editors. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: And if no one comes very often on the page, like those I started to contribute in X-Ray, is there a delay where I can make the changes or does it have to stay in the limbo until someone else comes? Do I have to contact editors involved in closely related fields (like medical physics) to come and help me? I'm sorry if I ask too much questions :p I will go and read the concensus page now. Did you also remove the other place where my ban was public, like where I was refered? I think there might be more pages where my name is on but I lost track of it I think. Not the one with the 1-liner, which I saw you changed due to misunderstanding. I want to add comments about misunderstanding everywhere I was referenced, thanks!

In reply to last question - for an article with few if any watchers, an edit and subsequent revert by an editor should be taken to the article's talk page for discussion, but there may not be any other editors keeping an eye on that. Can also ask to discuss on the other editor's Talk page (but this misses the potential for others to see it and chime in). The solution is not perfect. Key is discussing content without attacking other editors (for example, accusing of vandalism). On article View history and talk pages, you may find an editor who has been a frequent and recent contributor. You could leave a message on that person's Talk page as an invitation to participate. David notMD (talk) 04:15, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Keep calm

Bonjour,

J'ai cru comprendre que tu étais francophone. UL09 ? Diplomé de l'Université de Louvain/Lyon/Lausanne en 2009 ? ;-)

Il faut absolument rester très zen sur wikipédia sinon, ça finit toujours par mal tourner... Si tu as des doutes sur le sujet : sur le fond je ne sais pas, mais sur la forme, tu es dans ton tort. Tu as introduit une information contestée dans un article. La charge de la preuve est dans ton chef et il faut un consensus en pdd pour le réintroduire. La messe est dite. Il ne fallait faire de revert.
Mais en plus, l'article est sous "discretionary sanctions", ce qui veut dire en pratique plein pouvoirs aux sysops pour y maintenir l'ordre... Le revert, c'est te coller une cible sur le front. Et last but not least : avec une source primaire pour introduire une information controversée, c'est sans espoir quel que soit l'article et le sujet. Attention que je redis : je ne juge pas le fond (que je ne connais pas) mais juste la forme.

See you, RadXman (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@RadXman: Salut... diplômé de l'Université Laval dans la ville de Québec au Canada en fait. Je me suis reculé de ça, mais c'est principalement parce-que je suis nouveau que je ne savais pas le truc que les infos contestés devraient inclure un consensus... penses tu pouvoir m'aider à faire enlever les infos publiques sur mon kick? Je comprends pas ce qui vient de se passer la... PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Zut... 4 régions francophones dans le monde et j'ai oublié le Québec ! Shame on me...

Oui, je peux t'aider. Pour faire enlever ce log, il suffit que tu écrives à Boing! maintenant que tu t'es énervé mais que tu t'excuses et que tu acceptes sa décision. Rien de plus. Ensuite, à l'issue de ton blocage, tu peux aller sur sa pdd et lui expliquer calmement que tu as bien compris que tu étais dans ton tort, qu'à ta décharge tu n'avais pas compris ce règlement, et que tu as de toute manière décidé de ne plus éditer ces articles sur le covid et que tu apprécierais s'il pouvait retirer le log en question. Il pourrait être sympa et le faire. Ce n'est pas garanti mais c'est probable. Par contre, toute contestation vigoureuse n'aboutira pas.

Je comprends que c'est très frustrant et que tu dois ressentir de l'injustice, mais il n'y a nulle autre méthode...

Il faut aussi relativiser. Même Jimbo Wales a eu ses logs ;-)

RadXman (talk) 16:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

And that has all been done, with the sanctions log amended. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@RadXman: Merci beaucoup tout le monde. Et en passant c'est cool que tu aies écrit sur ma page, as tu envie de m'aider à améliorer la page de l'inspection industrielle? J'ai enlevé plusieurs trucs, mais je crois qu'il y a d'autres choses à enlever qui n'ont pas vraiment rapport, comme la longue discussion sur les radioisotopes... Ça devrait être inclus mais pas avec autant de détails chimiques selon moi... Ils sont utilisés comme une source de radiation, rien de plus et les gens dans l'industrie n'ont pas vraiment besoin de savoir les détails sur ça, puisqu'ils existent sûrement ailleurs. Il faudrait faire référence à ces autres pages par contre. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Avec plaisir.

Je suis d'accord avec toi que la partie sur les isotopes est sur-dimensionnée relativement au reste et qu'elle devrait être réduite.

Je pense que c'est parce qu'en RT portable, la grande majorité travaille avec de l'Ir ou du Se plutôt que des X.

Je contribuerai avec plaisir. Comme tu t'en doutes, les rayons-X sont un domaine que je connais. Mais je n'ai pas trop de temps.

S'il y a des questions ponctuelles (ou un conflit pour lequel un consensus est nécessaire), n'hésite pas à me laisser un message.

Je contribue nettement plus sur wp:fr que sur wp:en.

I think that we should go bo to English so that everybody can understand what we write, in particular if it concerns articles.

RadXman (talk) 18:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@RadXman: Yes it's true that for portable inspection solutions the natural sources are more convenient. But it seemed to me like all those cabinet machines buzzing about in different factories where being overlooked. And man there's TONS of stuff I can talk about on that subject XD. That's my field. I do not have experience with natural sources other than knowing about them and seeing them in action someplace. That's why I didn't want to remove too much about that subject and I left the chemical property stuff there, because I can't perfectly tell if it's really relevant. Thanks again for your comments! Happy editing :-)

Deleting my comment is fine, moving it is not

You are within your rights to delete comments from your Talk page. You are NOT within your rights to move comments, i.e, MY comment, to another place. Please go to Talk: Industrial radiography and delete the content from there. Another example, because it appears you need examples: Suppose you comment on an article's or editor's Talk page, and then decide you want to amend what you have written. That is fine as long as no one has subsequently commented. Once there is a follow-on comment, you can add a new comment after that, but revising or deleting you comment is no longer permitted. David notMD (talk) 19:49, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

An overview of generally acceptable practices can be found at WP:TALK. I hope PhysiqueUL09 doesn't mind me butting in. Bus stop (talk) 19:57, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: Please point to me where you said that moving it was not fine:
"With certain exceptions, editors are free to delete content from being visible on their Talk pages (it will still be accessible via View history). Some editors leave everything, others delete everything, and some move older stuff to an archive of their Talk page." Btw I just deleted your comments as per your request. I would like you to be more specific next time you want to help. And please don't use this "because it appears you need examples" kind of rhetoric here, I found hints of paternalism in this sentence, but then again I assume it was in good faith to help me. Thank you. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 20:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Bus stop: Thank you. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 20:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "National_People%27s_Congress_Decision_on_Hong_Kong_national_security_legislation".

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

NPA

You have resorted to a textbook personal attack (see item 3 Using someone's political affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views). Pinging MarkH21 on this one. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 22:23, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@CaradhrasAiguo: Oh, sorry, it was unintentional. I changed it now, so that it is not directed towards you. Sorry. May I suggest you look at WP:CAN Before inviting someone that actively writes in your talk page? Thanks! PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

That it is "unintentional" is equally revealing, as if it were an innate response. Trying to avoid NPA classification by Not directed towards you by using the pronoun while leaving the rest of the post intact is cutting corners.

You ought to read WP:TPG in its entirety, not selectively quote from it. In particular, early on in WP:TPO, Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 22:42, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@CaradhrasAiguo: Please, can you help me find a way to rephrase it so that it becomes relevant to the discussion? I am not saying this was your case, I simply wanted to convey the message that the arguments you have proposed during your WP:BLPTALK issue might have come from news that are related to [1]. It's not you that I tried to dismiss here, but your arguments that seem to come from disinformation. Or maybe it is not right to use this kind of language, I would refer to someone that has more experience in WP politics though. I really don't know how to say it properly, but I believe you know what I mean, care to help? I truly believe that here you need to WP:AGF because I learned from my past experiences and I try to apply WP policies accordingly. PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 22:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@CaradhrasAiguo: I removed the earlier part because it is irrelevant to the discussion here, you are accusing me of NPA, what I did before has nothing to do with it. You are not to judge my unintential action based on what has been said before, I will remove it again and if you revert it again I will ask for help from an administrator. Thank you PhysiqueUL09 (talk) 22:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)