Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/North Norfolk Coast Site of Special Scientific Interest/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 17:19, 11 September 2012 [1].

North Norfolk Coast Site of Special Scientific Interest

Featured article candidates/North Norfolk Coast Site of Special Scientific Interest/archive1

Nominator(s): Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is intended to be the main article for a future FT. I've had to select from masses of data, so if I've missed your favourite water beetle, bryophyte or pillbox, let me know. I've had complete reviews for prose at Milhist from Hchc2009 and AustralianRupert, and Dank edited the history section. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments The dunes photo "Marram grass binds the dunes" makes me think it's in this area, but it is in Denmark. Can this be clarified? Will look more. PumpkinSky talk 23:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the image to another where the marram is indubitably in the SSSI, on the coast east of Wells, thanks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support and image check images look good, excellent article and interesting! PumpkinSky talk 23:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for support Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)

"The Wash SSSI": When you start talking about other SSSIs, then it doesn't work any more to say just "the SSSI" referring to the NNC SSSI. I changed this to just "The Wash"; if that's not correct, please tweak it, but leave out "SSSI" if possible.

OK, leave as is for now, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The salt marshes which form on sheltered coasts, in the lee of islands or behind spits that the SSSI notification document states are "among the best in Europe ... flora is exceptionally diverse".": Doesn't seem to be a sentence. - Dank (push to talk) 23:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

tweaked and taken flora bit outside quotes Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"together with the National Nature Reserves (NNRs) at Scolt Head Island and Holkham, and substantial formerly undesignated areas.": Are you saying the date on all of that is 1973?

added dates, with references, for the two NNRs

"are of European importance", "is of national importance": I don't know what those mean.

I've added Birds Directive and Natural England links to clarify where the definitions of importance come from. Different numbers for each species, so I don't really want to do more than indicate who sets the criteria Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Northern Lapwing, Common Redshank and Sedge, Reed and Cetti's Warblers": Copyeditors tend to prefer the serial comma, and this sentence is hard to read without a comma after Redshank. - Dank (push to talk) 00:07, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Northern Lapwing": the Northern Lapwing

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Little Gull": the Little Gull

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Green hairstreak ... moth": The Green hairstreak ... moth

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"clouded yellow ... moth": the clouded yellow ... moth

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"the silver Y, can": the silver Y can

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"starlet sea anemone, lagoon sand shrimp, Atlantic ditch shrimp, and the lagoon cockle": the starlet sea anemone, lagoon sand shrimp, Atlantic ditch shrimp, and lagoon cockle

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"sea holly": Sea holly - Dank (push to talk) 02:40, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for copy edit and review, I'll have to overcome my mental block about putting "the" before species (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Or plural, either way. But putting the plural for some right next to the singular for others (without the "the") is right out. (I first learned BritEng from Monty Python, which may explain a thing or two about my copyediting ...) - Dank (push to talk) 12:22, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"international importance": ?

Rejigged to replace "international" with "European", and avoid "protected", which is repeated in next sentence. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:11, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"between April to September.": between April and September.

Duh... done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:11, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Cley beach": Not wrong, exactly, but I usually see "X Beach" or "X's beach(es)" or "the beach(es) at X".

Capped Beach now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:11, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. (Edits may take days to show up on that page.) - Dank (push to talk) 17:41, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your invaluable help Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:11, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I enjoy it, but more than that, you may have heard of Malcolm Gladwell's proposition that you need to do something for 10,000 hours to master it, and I'm not there yet :) - Dank (push to talk) 18:32, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:1586map.jpg needs US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:40, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Nikkimaria, done now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - very interesting topic and looks close to FA, but i will try a more thorough check later. At first glance the lead could use some improvements:

"...internationally important protected area in Norfolk [,England]." ==> WP:OBVIOUS.

Previous reviewer asked me to add England (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You should add the ,England-info to the lead sentence. We can't assume, that readers know where Norfolk is - so a larger geographical context is needed.GermanJoe (talk) 13:47, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"...and is [now] additionally protected ..." ==> avoid now, recently, currently and similar terms, they will get dated and lack precision.

Gone through and removed all non-essential temporal terms Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"There is an Iron Age fort at Holkham, a Roman naval port near Brancaster, and a medieval "chapel" at Blakeney." ==> That listing reads a bit boring (there is A and B and C), can it be spiced up with a little more detail?

tweaked a bit, difficult to get the balance without repeating too much of the later text Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Management is necessary to protect sensitive wildlife sites ..." ==> Says who? I agree with the statement, but it sounds a bit POVish. Just state, which organisation is doing what, and why.

management stated as fact now. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"A more serious threat is the encroachment of the sea on this soft coast." ==> Why compare the threats? A plain statement of facts without the comparison would be better. It's subjective anyway, imagine a few hundred or thousands of tourists moving through this site without supervision ...

rephrased to avoid comparison Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Managed retreat [is likely to be] the long-term solution, coupled with the creation of new reserves inland to compensate for the loss of scarce habitats." ==> again better to state, what is actually planned and done without any speculation on the outcome. Something like "To compensate for the loss of scarce habitats, managed retreat in the affected area and the creation of new inland reserves are planned (by whom?)."

Added Environment Agency, again I was trying to avoid copying too much from the relevant section

In summary the last lead para appears to take the SSSI's side and sounds not completely un-involved (even on worthwhile projects the encyclopedic article has to keep it's distance). Also replace analyzing statements with factual information, the analysis is better kept to the main text. More later. GermanJoe (talk) 11:26, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks fro review and comments Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - that was some really quick fixing. Aside from the solved lead issues very little to nitpick:

In "Threats": should "One of the most vulnerable stretch ..." be "stretches"?
"Economic effects" is not optimal as a header, the second half of it is ecological impact. Moving this half to "threats" might work, but would leave the section very small.
"The SSSI has a wide variety of habitats." and "Norfolk has a long history of human occupation." are very short as introductions to their sub-topic. They would be more engaging with a little more detail. GermanJoe (talk) 13:44, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for support, I've changed to "stretches" and tweaked the habitats and history a little; Renamed economic bit "Recreation" since it covers economic importance and problems, is that better? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:15, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it covers positive and negative aspects of tourism there. Thanks for looking into it (all points Done). GermanJoe (talk) 06:37, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.