Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sukhoi T-12 Shturmovik-90

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Sukhoi Su-25#Variants while also possibly mentioning it in List of Sukhoi aircraft DatGuy^Talk_Contribs 15:18, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sukhoi T-12 Shturmovik-90

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This aircraft appears to fail WP:N as it is lightly covered, at best, in reliable sources.

The best source I've found is Assaltatori ed aerei da attacco al suolo russi e sovietici. Progetti, prototipi ed aerei operativi, which is copied/translated in this potentially unreliable site used in the article currently. There is also an article by Piotr Butowski in Combat Aircraft from November 1999, although I can't verify that this website copied it accurately, and the aircraft appears to be on the cover of Unflown Wings: Soviet/Russian Unrealized Aircraft Projects 1925-2010.

There are also unreliable sources out there, like this fascinating 2006 thread on the Secret Projects forum and a article on LiveJournal from at least that long ago.

On the flip side, this aircraft plan is omitted from otherwise topical books like Soviet Aircraft Industry or Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot (which the T-12 nominally would have replaced).

In sum, this topic should be mentioned in places like Twin-fuselage aircraft or Sukhoi Su-25, which it isn't currently, but as a standalone article it doesn't appear to be notable for our purposes. I would welcome anyone who has other sources! Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 15:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that I've mentioned this nomination at WT:MILHIST#Does anyone have info about this strange twin-fuselage Soviet CAS aircraft?, in the hopes that subject matter experts there will have access to sources I'm not able to find. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 15:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

With the additional sources given below, I would prefer to redirect this article, whether that's to Twin-fuselage aircraft, Sukhoi Su-25, or a different more-relevant article that I haven't thought of. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:37, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and Aviation. Shellwood (talk) 15:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It gets a mention in Buttler, Tony; Gordon, Yefim (2004). Soviet Secret Projects: Bombers Since 1945. Hinkley, UK: Midland Publishing. ISBN 1-85780-194-6., probably about a third to a half a page of text. That probably counts as one RS.Nigel Ish (talk) 16:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Also a very, very brief mention (and a picture) in the 1999/2000 edition of Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory, which speculates whether a mysterious "stealth ground attack aircraft" referred to by the C-in-C of the Russian Air Force as being under development, refers to the T-12.Nigel Ish (talk) 16:46, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Nigel Ish: Ah! I'm happy to hear that there's at least a couple more sources out there that I wasn't able to find. However, it doesn't sound like they would qualify as 'significant coverage'? Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:37, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - The coverage in Buttler & Gordon could probably count as significant, the coverage in Brassey's isn't significant.Nigel Ish (talk) 20:40, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - Respectfully, I don't think less than a page in a book counts there. :-) It certainly feels like it fails the "significant coverage is more than a trivial mention" notability criteria. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:21, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would support a merge with Twin-fuselage aircraft. I agree that depth of coverage isn't sufficient for a standalone article (at least not with the sources we know as of now), but some sourced information could probably find its way into this one. BilletsMauves^€500 20:22, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- If you were going to merge it somewhere - I would think that List of Sukhoi aircraft would be a suitable target.Nigel Ish (talk) 10:15, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:24, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish isn't my strongest language, but I know enough to recognise that this is significant coverage, and the source seems reliable. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:15, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Hey Phil Bridger! I think you're right that Zona Militar is legitimate. However, they allow for open article submissions and the author of this specific piece is not listed in the magazine's professional staff. Moreover, there are four sources listed at the bottom. Three of them are forums or similar, and the fourth is no longer accessible/not available on the Internet Archive. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 16:05, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider the option of Merge or Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:03, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 10:06, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.