Talk:Georgetown University

Intro

Whoever keeps using a colon in the intro paragraph, please stop it, your phrasing is awkward. Also, it is ridiculous to preface Georgetown's excellence with "Catholic" it is a universally exceptional institution.

School of Medicine

The school ranks down in the forties for medicine by U.S. News. Simply because it is selective (most medical schools are) and affiliated with a well known school does not make necessarily make it high performing. Also, in comparison to the other divisions mentioned, it stature is out of place.

SEE response below...

Introduction

I have redone the opening to address what I think are some salient problems. Positing that Georgetown is amongst the nation’s best universities without citation is a problematic. This is not acceptable in terms of how articles on wikipedia are written with respect to institutions of higher learning (“Georgetown University is globally recognized for the strength of its academic programs,” is impermissible). Such a claim must be sourced – see the University of Chicago for a good example. Moreover, this is not just meaningless rule mongering. Georgetown does not make the same standout case for itself that Stanford or Columbia for instance achieve in terms of - all around - excellence. Rather, its stature is inherently more nuanced. The ‘Times’ and ‘Economist’ rankings are incorporated into nearly every other major American school’s opening or rankings section, and they seem salient here. Also, disaggregating the divisions seems important, as Georgetown has quite few that are lagging in performance, such as its business school, medical school, or its Ph.D. programs. That being said, the fact that the school is seen by Americans, the case would be hard to verify globally, as highly prestigious, as well as politically influential, is worth noting in the lead. I did not have the time to look up surveys, New York Times articles and the like, but several citations for each would be valuable here.

In terms of the business school "lagging" in performance; it's actually very much on the upswing. The University is building a new $80-million home for McDonough and in one recent metric, the MBA program jumped from in the 38th to 19th in the country in the last year as per the Wall Street Journal. Source: http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=18825 141.161.109.120 02:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

19th is pretty bad considering how large MBA programs are.

Whoever keeps using a colon in the intro paragraph, please stop it, your phrasing is awkward. Also, it is ridiculous to preface Georgetown's excellence with "Catholic" it is a universally exceptional institution. Also, Georgetown's reputation is at least and I would argue more global then that of Columbia. Georgetown has a higher % of international students and has certainly graduated more foreign heads of state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.68.176 (talk • contribs)

No one said that it wasn't an excellent school - but that is a personal judgement and is not allowed per Wiki policy. See WP:NPOV and WP:OR. Also see, Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism --Strothra 00:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This poster, I presume in medical school, continues to insert the same material in the introduction. Should we consider blocking the IP on vandalism grounds? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.135.82.202 (talk) 08:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

It is not subject to NPOV, all the rankings you cite state it objectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.68.176 (talk • contribs)

Rankings refer to specific categories, not broad generalizations as you are attempting to make. --Strothra 01:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The Times and Institute of Higher Education rankings are both aiming for a comprehensive asessment of the university, and if you look at what they find, Georgetown is not much of a standout. I don't care to get into an edit war over this, but as it reads the introduction is just horribly contradicted by the facts. Georgetown lacks the serious, graduate level research agenda that top tier institutions do. However, it is very politically influential, and certainly turns out a fair number of prominent alumni, and hence I would argue to keep the Catholic line, but yet find some sources that speak the schools unique position as being substantially more prominent in a meaningful, social networking way than in terms of hard academics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.135.226.164 (talk) 06:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

It is a shame the opening has now been entirely drawn down on account of one users clear violation of Wiki Policy. Effectively, this article is redacting information in order to achieve academic boosterism by a back door.

Endowment

The Washington Post ran an article a few weeks back about Georgetown's endowment and listed it at $850 million. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/21/AR2006052100832.html. I was wondering if anyone had a recent and reliable figure to substantiate either the $850 or the $741.1 listed in the wiki article.

SWQ

1. The SWQ is, in fact, a 1000+ bed facility. The original plans for 750+ bed were modified when demand for oncampus housing turned out to be higher than expected.

2. Unless someone can establish a clear correlation between failures of US diplomats to know foreign languages during the early part of the 20th century and the establishment of the SFS, I don't think that the comment belongs in the article -- in consultation with one of the Deans at Georgetown, as well as with the library staff, we could find no clear link between the one and the other. Please correct me if I am wrong.

3. The major divisions between available degrees are to be phased out over a period of 3 years, beginning in the Fall of 2005 and ending in the Fall of 2008. This plan will be announced at the beginning of the Spring semester in 2005.

I'm going to implement revisions in reference to 1 and 3. I also want to make the tiniest of grammatical alterations. I'll leave 2 open for discussion, but I really think that a comment like the one currently contained in the article needs to have some substantiated material that we can refer to and possibly link in the article.

History

The history section should be expanded; should information on the Jesuit suppression (restored in 1814) be moved to the lower section, out of the lead para.? Thanks Dpr 10:08, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

added alumni listed in the SFS article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_A._Walsh_School_of_Foreign_Service) but not found in the Georgetown University article.

changed "famous alumni" section header to "notable alumni" --Classwarrior 22:17, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

the "Catholic" Harvard ... -- Excuse me? (You are excused)

Where do you get off calling Georgetown the "Catholic" Harvard? If he/she gets accepted to both the former school and the latter, he would absolutely go to Harvard regardless of his religion.

Georgetown can never be a Harvard. I understand you wanna make Georgetown univ. look good, but please do not insert an absurd, off-putting remark on the page.

Either a current (Philippines, Jordan) Future (Spain) or an immediate past (United States and Portugal) Head of State or Government for five of the hundred most populous and three of the thirty most populous nations in the world, is a Georgetown alumnus. Your comment is the absurd one and indicates a degree of ignorance and/or prejudice that is simply amazing in 2005.

(This was not my comment but, my son-we live in a suburb of Washington, is currently being tutored by a former Harvard undergrad who transferred to Georgetown's Foreign Service School so apprarently things aren't as absolute as you would like to believe.)

Harvard is the world's best university, but it does not exceed Julliard in music, CalTech in physics, West Point in military science, Notre Dame in football or Georgetown in diplomacy. It is not "absurd" to describe Juillard as the "Harvard" of Music or West Point as the "Harvard" of Military Service. It is not out of line to say that Stanford is the "Harvard" of the West, Duke the "Harvard" of the South or that Georgetown is the "Catholic" Harvard. Any institution that legitimately manifests world class excellence can be described as the "Harvard" of its particular milieu, when the term "Harvard" is a synonym for the best in a given area. This is an article for God's sake, and an apt description is an apt description.

Any person looking objectively at Georgetown's international relations faculty (which includes a former Secretary of State, former CIA Director and former Presidential Advisor for National Security Affairs ), would make themselves a fool by not acknowledging the excellence of Georgetown. A young person who wants to make a career in the diplomatic, intelligence or international think tank and policy-making communities, would have to seriously consider Georgetown to any other institution in the world, and it would not be "absurd' for that young person to choose Georgetown over any other institution.

--Above exchange is written from 199.207.253.96 and 199.207.253.101

It is Wikipedia policy to write articles using Neutral Points of View and a statement calling Georgetown University the Harvard of Catholic Education is considered a biased point of view. Unless you can cite it as a quotation from a Georgetown University publication acknowledging itself in that manner, then the comment should be omitted from the article text. --Gerald Farinas 18:05, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Georgetown does not have to look good since it is good. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.50.50.51 (talk • contribs) .

One could even plausibly argue that given the range of the influential positions held by its alumni and the quality of its student body and faculty in early 2006, Georgetown is among the handful of the most politically influential universities in the world.

"Harvard" as a term denoting a paragon of education is nearly as crusty, overwrought, and ultimately archaic as the stiff and ostentatious courtship practices of the nineteenth century. Any honest research and appraisal reveals that the "ivies" are clearly resting on their laurels. Jesuit schools, on the whole, through adherence to great book rigors, far exceed the now whimsical and often agenda oriented cirrucula of ivy schools. Further, claiming that Harvard is the best school in the "world" (think: Oxford, Sorbonne, Cambridge, Rome, Beijing, etc.) reveals a provincial and jingoistic ignorance certainly not indicative of fine education.

For what it's worth, I understand the logic behind using the Harvard analog as a relatively objective standard of comparison, and agree with it (for what it's also worth, I turned down Harvard for G'town. And I'm not Catholic or Christian at all, so it's not even as though a religious factor counted). Mohsin.Siddiqui 01:30, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I went to Georgetown. I'm familiar with Harvard. Georgetown's not Harvard, and it does not want to be. While a statement like this cannot really ever be proven, I can say that I have met a large number of Georgetown students who were admitted to Harvard and chose Georgetown. I can point to just as many students who transferred out of Harvard and into Georgetown. Anecdotes aren't everything, but they're-you're excused-quite helpful.

-- Regarding the "no one chooses Georgetown over Harvard" debate, I can point to my freshman year roommate who did. He got a 1570 on his SAT (before they adjusted the scale in the mid or late 90s) and chose the SFS, where we both were, over Harvard because the education in SFS affords different opportunities for internships, etc. that aren't available in Boston. He did, however, go to Harvard Law School.

Avoiding the Invevitable

I understand Georgetown follows Jesuit beliefs, but some of their policies seem a little old-fashioned and problematic, for example...

Because of Georgetown’s Jesuit identity, birth control is not available on campus. Furthermore, none of the on-campus stores carry condoms; the closest place to get such products is CVS on Wisconsin Ave.

When 15-20% of students at Georgetown already have STD's, how could having these things more available hurt?

info taken from the College Prowler guidebook; Georgetown University - Off the Record

• Condoms are available free of charge in Red Square from the unofficial student group "H*yas for Choice" a few days a week. Wisconsin Ave isn't more than a 10-15 minute walk. Fightindaman 02:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

12.150.160.194 00:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The issue of how GU's catholic character influences its pursuit of its educational mission should receive some additional discussion. For example, in 1992, Georgetown revoked the status of a group called Hoyas for Choice. This organization had been accredited with the Student Activities Commission, but this accreditation resulted in a controversy. See the Ignation Society website, http://www.tboyle.net/University/G.U._Choice_Files.html for a description. The result of the wrangling was that Hoyas for Choice had its status revoked.

It appears that, to date, H*yas for Choice, a successor to Hoyas for Choice, has not received accreditation, funding or membership in the Student Affairs Commission (the governing body for student groups). See "H*yas for Choice Submits SAC Application," The Hoya, Tuesday, April 1, 2003 or "H*yas should not be funded", Georgetown Independent, 4/2/03, available at http://www.thegeorgetownindependent.com/media/paper136/news/2003/04/02/Editorials/Hyas-Should.Not.Be.Funded-405472.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.thegeorgetownindependent.com.

Such content-based censorship on students' rights of free speech and association seems incompatible with the educational mission of a first-rate institution.

12.150.160.194 00:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The school has the option to give money to whomever it chooses. The use of contraception is immoral according to Church teaching and as such the school has decided that it does not want to fund the distribution of contraception on campus (nor provide funding for a group which condones the practice of abortion). While I may disagree with their value judgment, I don't think that the school should be forced to fund causes it does not believe in. If some students put together a group called "Hoyas for racial segregation" would the Univeristy have to give them money too? Fightindaman

___

I don't disagree that there is no way to force the school to do anything different, and you may be right that one should not even try. That is not, however, the question here. The question is whether the choice the school made is interesting from the prospective of the reader. Perhaps this comment would be better made in relation to the "Student organizations and media" section. I'll move there.

___

Georgetown in Maryland pre-1871?

Wouldn't Georgetown have been in Montgomery County, Maryland before Georgetown was absorbed into DC in 1871 (See History of Washington, D.C.)? If so, shouldn't this be mentioned in the history?

K: You are correct, and it might be worthy of note. The Georgetown Seal is an anachronism in this respect, with the Latin around it "Collegium Georgiopolitanum ad ripas Potomaci in Marylandia" or, for non-Latin scholars, "The College of Georgetown on the shores of the Potomac in Maryland."

The city/town of Georgetown, Maryland was abosorbed into the District of Columbia when DC was created in 1790. It was then the independent city/town of Gerorgetown, DC. When DC was created, it consisted of multiple counties and municipalities, Georgetown, Washington city, Washington county, Alexandria city and Alexandria county. The Alexandrias retroceded to Virginia in 1846. In 1871, the city of Washington took over the entire remaining District, mergering with Washington county and the city of Georgetown, DC. This is modern Washington, DC, with Georgetown as a neighborhood rather than a separate city within DC.

Georgetown Medical School "Not Competitive" Comment

Someone has placed the comment that Georgetown Medical School, which accepts less than 5% of its applicants,is "not competitive." Whatever Georgetown Medical School's standing is in a magazine survey, there is no question that its level of competitiveness is extraordinarily high and that many gifted undergraduates would prize a place there to study to become a physician. Competitiveness refers to the competition and resulting quality of the student body and the ranking in the magazine is irrelevant to this criterion.

I agree with this response. Georgetown University School of Medicine receives the 5th highest amount of applications out of medical schools in the United States (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006school.htm). This means that one out of every 4 applicants apply to Georgetown every year (there is usually between 30,000 and 35,000 total medical school applications). More people apply to Georgetown than Harvard, John Hopkins, or Duke. The acceptance rate is also lower than Harvard, John Hopkins, or Duke (all private national schools).

Gross admissions numbers tell you very little. Using sheer volume of applicants or GPA is not a great measure of institutional success, insofar as they do not take into account who is applying nor where these GPA are coming from. A much better indicator from US News is peer assessment scores on academic quality which consider in part students (Harvard - 4.8, JHU - 4.8, Georgetown - 2.9), as well as those given by residency directors which focus almost exclusively on students (Harvard - 4.7, JHU - 4.6, Georgetown - 3.5). It is precisely by these criterion, arguably the most insightful of the entire ranking process since they get behind the numbers, that the final composite scores pan out the way they do (Harvard - 100, JHU - 80, Georgetown - 44). Saying the medical school is highly ranked by looking at applicant volume is akin to saying it is popular with students, but that is not what the article context is attempting to convey.

Stone Throwing

Just a piddling thing, and I'm not an idiot so I realize this is an expression, but I have a problem with this "stone's throw from the Potomac" line. There's no truth to it. I live on the corner of campus closest to the Potomac, and I definitely couldn't hit Potomac from there. I have a slightly above average throw, I'd say, as well. I think you'd have to be Achilles or something to hit Potomac with a stone from campus. Even the canal would be difficult... I doubt I could do that even- Likely I'd end up hitting a car on M St. / Foxhall. So I say "overlooks the Potomac" would be better. I really don't want to change it myself though.

You can hit it from the car barn (sic).

GIRA

http://www.modelun.org/gira/index.html is listed as an organization under Georgetown University however the front page of the site says:

"GIRA is not affiliated with Georgetown University"

not sure if I am missing something but any confirmations/digressions would be nice.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.182.176 (talk • contribs)

• Answer: first off, possibly b/c of your comments, GIRA was correctly removed from this page. GIRA goes out of its way to say that it's not affiliated with Georgetown b/c of legal liability (they host large conferences). The confusion is understandible b/c its membership is almost 100% current Georgetown undergrads, and b/c its board overlaps with that of the Georgetown International Relations Club, which is a University-sponsored club.--M@rēino 18:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Creation of a Faculty Section

I removed the following passage from the history section due to the nature of the paragraph referring to a specific faculty appointment. This information is best included in a section about Georgetown University's faculty and not one intended to highlight the history of the institution. In addition, this information only refers to faculty that have joined the School of Foreign Service and should be balanced with the major appointments in the University's other schools.

During the Fall 2004 semester, Georgetown announced the appointment of former-CIA director George Tenet to the University teaching staff. Tenet joined other distinguished Georgetown faculty including former National Security Advisor Anthony Lake, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick, former Ambassador at Large Robert L. Gallucci, and former Prime Minister of Spain Jose Maria Aznar. - unsigned comments by 141.161.121.52

I moved the paragraph about faculty to a "Faculty" subheading. Feel free to improve it. --Aude 16:29, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I added Andrew Natsios (USAID Head Administrator) to the list of faculty. Tlaktan 23:24, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Visual Appeal of Picture By Campus Section is ... Somewhat Lacking

This is mostly an aesthetic issue, but it has bothered me for months: couldn't we have a picture other than that horrid law campus shot for the introduction of the main campus? Maybe an internal shot of Dalghren quad or the Main quad in bloom or something of that nature ... it's a bit discordant to be speaking of fountains, cemetaries, trees, flowers, and ivy, and to have a shot of a concrete monster heading up the article.

All due respect to the Law School graduates, of course ;) But I know there are better shots out there ...

• I can try to take something of Dahlgren. Maybe if we get a bit of snow or something. Otherwise I guess I'll wait till spring. Fightindaman 23:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I just moved the law center pict. to the pgph about the law center, and swapped position with the healy hall img. Of course, when we get better pictures, we can arrange them better. Or you think the current article can be better, be bold and go ahead and change it. -Aude (talk | contribs) 00:01, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I swapped a picture of Dahlgren quad for the law center photo and moved the two pics around a bit. Fightindaman 07:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The page is looking much better; the Dahlgren shot is really well framed. I wish I had better photos to offer, but I'm pulling from only a few that I took while at GU in 2003. Didn't have a good camera then. SCUMATT 09:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Comparison with Tulane does not apply

Tulane's admission standards, quality of alumni and student achievement , and educational resources are not comparable to Georgetown's. Tulane's acceptance rate is double that of Georgetown and its standardized test scores lag by over a hundred to hundred and fifty points, the student body at G.U. (See any reputable college guide such as Princeton Review, Fiske or US News.) Please, lets not have a statement that is not supported.

This is credited. Comparisons should be based on the schools that are listed in such guides as overlap schools either academically or in terms of students they attract. Tulane falls into neither group. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.135.190.154 (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Need to Verify and Validate International College Rankings

Someone has placed international university rankings from two sources that could not be found in the Wikipedia, including one from an obscure university in China. Can someone verify this information? Additionally, someone needs to explain how, with the differing requirements for entrance, and differing courses of studies (some countries issue 3 year first degrees, others 4 year degrees; some let holders of masters degrees use the term doctor; professional degree courses vary in length and content etc. etc.) an apples to apples international comparison of a university with many diverse programs in one system can be compared to another. I can see where an international ranking of, for instance, MBA programs could be valid. If these rankings are pure polls, the polling needs to be vetted. Maybe the two rankings have value.

They are extensively discussed here [1]. They are widely used by media, for instance the Economist, Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Washington Post as the standard for pan-university rankings. US News makes no attempt in this vein. They are cited in the articles for Princeton, Harvard, UChicago and Oxford just to name a few. They do, however, employ very different methodologies. I would wager a reason they are seen as useful since they contain few suprises. The good schools end up at the top year after year.

Merge discussion: Communication, Culture & Technology

I am proposing the merging of the entirity of the Communication, Culture & Technology article (the entirity of which refers to a master's program at Georgetown) into the Academics section of this article. My vote, obviously, is to merge. --EazieCheeze 17:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. --Shizoomy 02:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I can't help but wonder though, do we really need that much information about the programme? If it seems that including it is essential to the article, then yes, it should remain merged, but I also think that it's a bit silly to just have the one MA programme discussed without mention of the others. Is there something in particular about the CCT programme that stands out? I didn't get that impression from my friends who were in it.

The CCT program should be listed only if the other graduate-level programs are listed.

Georgetown Prep and Georgetown Visitation

These high schoolds once were part of and shared campus with GU. Should they be mentioned?Sabrebattletank 01:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

'Center for Muslim Christian Understanding'

I read something about the 'Center for Muslim Christian Understanding', a gift of 20 million dollar from Alwaleed bin Talal for islamic courses and the removal of an evangelical student group from campus. I didn't read stuff about that in the article. Does somebody know more? SietskeEN 09:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The Islamic studies program did recently receive a $20 million donation from said prince, and the name was changed to what you have listed above. The second part is a bit off; there was an evangelical Christian group which the Campus Ministry was affiliated with, that it recently broke ties with. Fightindaman 22:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Chartered name

As far as I know the chartered, historical name of the University, as I have observed on plaques and documents, is the "President and Directors of the College at George Town on the Potomac" , not the "College of Georgetown" which makes no sense. 141.161.96.171 01:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you go here: http://guide.georgetown.edu/slideshows/slides/show11_slide5.html, you can make out that it says "the president and Directors of the College of George Town within the District of Columbia." I had changed it to that from Georgetown College some time ago. Georgetown College is probably just a shorthand reference (as well as now the formal name for what used to be the College of Arts and Sciences).

Founding Date

I've watched this page bounce around over the last 2 weeks from very different versions of the history. I recognize the strong attachment to the 1634 version of events, and the desire that this should be noted, and while I think my school is better than those which happen to be older in America than it, I don't feel the need to pretend that it is something which it is not. 1789 is the date the school wants, it's what they announce, it's what's in the other encyclopedias, and it's what needs to be in this one.

What could be noted is that the date was considered to be 1788 until the 1840 yearbook, when it for no good reason was misprinted. However, since the university has chosen to recognize the date of the land deed as its foundation, and not of the slightly earlier chartering date, as is more commonly the case, the page should reflect this.

I moved the 1643 information to a separate page, currently "Founding of Georgetown University", and will add info about the events in 1789 tomorrow. I hope to extend this page to a full History of Georgetown University page one day, since the history section is already lengthy without much of what it could contain.--Patrickneil 05:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This 1643 thing seems odd to me. Maybe they planned on founding a school here, but Wikipedia says that Georgetown (the town) was first settled in 1696. --AW 18:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

General comment on the quality of this article (after looking into a question about possible COI postings by employees)

The following is adapted from a posting at the WP:COI/N noticeboard, which is used to handle complaints about editors who may have a conflict of interest. For example, college employees who might be writing about their own college. Those interested may refer to that noticeboard to find the complete entry here. Back in January, User:Awiseman made this posting:

The IP user User:68.98.161.246 has made more than 300 edits, all of which relate to Georgetown University and Georgetown's Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service in a positive nature. I think the IP should be checked to see if it comes from the university. For example, there has been a discussion at the School of Foreign Service article about academic boosterism by the user. Here are their contributions: Special:Contributions/68.98.161.246. Another similar IP user has made similar boosteristic edits, Special:Contributions/68.49.15.185. Thanks --AW 07:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Other contributors to the COI noticeboard looked into this issue, but with inconclusive results. On the issue of whether the complaint should be closed, I read through the article to see if 'boosterism' was a persuasive problem. Editors who follow this article closely may have their own opinions, that they might want to add below.

This article is not that bad, though it suffers in part from boosterism and weak prose, as the following illustrates:

Several academic themes distinguish the McDonough School of Business and give the school a special identity among managers and academicians, including international and intercultural dimensions of the marketplace, the importance of written and oral communication, and interpersonal effectiveness in organizations.

So there is a mixture of really interesting stuff, and passages of flabby prose. There is an insufferably-long list of notable alumni. Luckily there is a separate article with a list of alumni, which is pretty well-written and not objectionable. In the recent edit history, there seems to be a dogged attempt by one particular anon to reset the University's founding back to 1634, rather than the more logical 1789. There seem to be a variety of different editors who are working on it, probably enough to keep it in check. If someone wanted to make this article a project, they could probably attempt a rewrite to make it less spammy. EdJohnston 22:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia: Mosaic Seal

Tradition holds? Sean McGroarty told me that his brother Brendan and another GU student started this "tradition." Brendan and his friend would leave Mass at Dahlgren Chapel and then hold open the Healy Hall doors that open out to this mosaic seal. They would tell fellow worshipers that if they stepped on the seal that they would not graduate. I would have to guess that this tradition dates to about 1992, given that Sean graduated in '95 and his brother Brendan is slightly older. If I knew how to get in touch with Brendan or Sean, I'd ask for a 'citation.' User:Preserved killick 26 February 2007