Talk:Sound of Freedom (film)

Requested move 13 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: There is consensus to move the second page, but not the first, so the dab page will be moved to the base name. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 14:00, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

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• Sound of Freedom (film) → Sound of Freedom
• Sound of Freedom → Sound of Freedom (song)

– Clear primary per pageviews; move current article to Sound of Freedom (song) 162.208.168.92 (talk) 21:22, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). 162.208.168.92 (talk) 04:52, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Note: Sound of Freedom titles a page with significant content and so it is ineligible as a target, new title unless it is also proposed to be renamed. This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 06:34, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

• I don't see a valid reason for this page move. I think this needs reliable sources and futher discussion to see if this is the primary topic. The film article was created in February 2020, while the song article was created in April 2007. I have created the redirect for "Sound of Freedom (song)", which targets the song article. Seventyfiveyears (talk) 21:40, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

The pageviews are clearly indicative of a primary topic, see WP:PTOPIC 162.208.168.92 (talk) 21:49, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support 2nd but per Seventyfiveyears we might be better having a DAB at the basename which can also list Soundz of Freedom. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

I'll note that Soundz of Freedom is already linked at the top of Sound of Freedom (song) as that is the album the song appears on. Also, it gets less than 10 hits/day. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 15:59, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

• Sound of Freedom (disambiguation) In ictu oculi (talk) 16:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support 2nd, Neutral 1st per above. I'd say move Sound of Freedom (disambiguation) to basename of "Sound of Freedom". Primary topic swaps are often quite messy. Paintspot Infez (talk) 02:28, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ballard certainly puts himself forward as an anti-trafficking activist; but this is far from clear, possibly dubious.

This entire description is as if it were uncontroversial that Ballard is who and what he says he is.

From numerous sources, we know that Ballard is a QAnon activist and purports to witness, for example, child traffickers killing children for their adrenaline-laced blood ("adrenochrome"). Caveziel, similarly, adheres to this QAnon conspiracy theory. These caveats are nowhere evidenced in the current entry. Ballard claims many rescue operations that are not his own and/or are not rescue operations at all. His "4000" figure is completely of his own making. This film is basically a propaganda film for QAnon adherents who have mobilized general public disgust for anti-child trafficking for their own political purposes: claiming that their political opposition support child trafficking/exploitation. --Petzl (talk) 08:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Petzl: the article appears to have been written from a pro-Ballard bias, and many important details are omitted. I will try to find time to edit the article, but in the meantime it should be noted that the article as it currently stands does not appear to be completely factual and objective, and other editors are encouraged to correct it as well. Chillowack (talk) 10:37, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Disagree. Unfortunately Wikipedia is now extremely biased and far from neutral. This mindset regarding bias is not applied to many contentious Wikipedia sections which lean significantly far left to the point of clear influence and political motivation. Certain users almost gang up on any conservative view points and I have seen people get banned for doing nothing more than disagreeing respectfully. Trying to associate Ballard with QAnon using questionable and dubious politically motivated statements or sources is disagreeable and apalling to the spirit of what Wikipedia was supposed to be. Raj208 (talk) 22:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

It is strange to me that there are people out there trying to spread there own unfounded ideas and negative baseless assertions against a film that is obviously working to help spread awareness to the scourge that is child trafficking. Why, instead of trying to push you own propaganda against something that would most likely be a net positive, would you not a least stay quiet? so strange. 68.207.91.112 (talk) 04:00, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

it will be used for political campaigns and the disturbing nature of the topic can make one blind for facts in rl. it is far from "can´t hurt" to lie about something like this and will change the minds of some voters.

votes are not unimportant. facts are not unimportant. i think it is strange that this is not taken way more seriously. 2A02:8070:6188:76A0:0:0:0:CE8F (talk) 02:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Please, I've read enough of these talk pages to see what goes on here. The association to Q Anon is far from clear, “Health and Freedom Conference” was not a QAnon event and tying two random QAnon people who happened to be at that event to this film is for what purpose exactly? The only connection you have is Jim mentioning "adrenochroming" without context, in what tone was it spoken? Was it said in jest?

There is no need for the whole QAnon segment to be there, in fact it appears to be there purely to poison the well and serves no actual informative purpose. If, for instance, you happened to believe in socialist policies do you endorse some elements of Nazism? 2404:4404:2A08:1D00:B0D6:D34C:8202:1320 (talk) 07:30, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

When that section was first added (I didn't write it) I had a similar reaction (although certainly not as POV as yours); I wondered if there was a connection. I read the sources; multiple articles make the connection between this film, the film's subject matter, and the QAnon conference. I'm not sure your statement that "it appears to be there purely to poison the well and serves no actual informative purpose" is supported by facts. Seems like it's relevant and it's certainly informative. I would be in favor of leaving it in place. Fred Zepelin (talk) 19:23, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

This is an article about a film. The entire section added to this article amounts to WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Instaurare (talk) 08:57, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

That section has references, and virtually all of the sources discuss the film. Its wholesale removal (by you) was entirely unwarranted. Fred Zepelin (talk) 21:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The section violates WP:SYNTH. Per WP:BRD you must achieve consensus. Instead you are engaged in edit warring. Instaurare (talk) 07:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

It would certainly help my (or any other's) evaluation of a consensus if links to essays weren't thrown around like links to policies or guidelines. A relevant policy is WP:BLPRESTORE, which (contrary to the BRD essay) does require finding a consensus for restoring (at least some of) the material. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Adrenochrome

There is a lot of proof of use of Adrenochrome. It is a real drug taken from human adrenal glands. Children have so much it makes them a target. You are running cover for an evil operation by saying it’s imaginary. 147.160.220.232 (talk) 14:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

If you have proof that "Adrenochroming" is real, please share it: but make sure it meets Wikipedia's standards (i.e. no B.S. websites, blogs, etc.) Chillowack (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Where did Caviezel suggest he had seen evidence of Adrenochroming?

The following sentence appears in the article: "Caviezel suggested he had seen evidence of children being subjected to the practice [of Adrenochroming]." The citation points to a cluster of four articles, which I read, but I could not find in any of them an indication from Cavaziel that he had actually seen evidence. On the contrary: Caviezel states that he "never, ever, ever saw it" being done. Did I miss something? Can someone point to the passage where Cavaziel suggests he saw evidence of Adrenochroming? Thanks. Chillowack (talk) 20:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Unbalanced?

Is it just me or is this article heavy on content regarding the personal and political beliefs of the film's lead actor and has too much content questioning the film's accuracy? A4M2 Alaska4Me2 (talk) 02:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

There's one two-paragraph section about the film's accuracy -- you consider that "too much content"? Chillowack (talk) 02:47, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Wiki has gone to shit

I am starting to see alot of political bias on Wikipedia, it is pretty evident in this article which is about a movie, and I do not see how the workers (actors) beliefs have anything to do with the Movie. IJ-Dub-Ya (talk) 03:19, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Accuracy is important

Almost every movie on wikipedia that is "based on a true story" has an accuracy section and this one should be no different. There are many articles that talk about how it's not very accurate and the people behind the movie make things up. 2603:6081:5C00:F109:A94D:D6F0:3579:4D06 (talk) 15:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Variety Review

"Let's assume that, like me, you’re not a right-wing fundamentalist conspiracy theorist looking for a dark, faith-based suspense film"

What is the point of this sentence? What does this have to do with the review of the film ? This is unnecessary political bias and slander that is not informative or apropos. 67.80.251.0 (talk) 17:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

That's just the critic expressing their own personal views. Even if you disagree, that's not reason enough to remove their entire review from Wikipedia, which is only looking to gauge an accurate portrait of the film's critical reception. --Neateditor123 (talk) 17:54, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Reaching a consensus on the "Accuracy" section

The "Accuracy" section of this article has been repeatedly deleted, reinstated, and deleted again, simply because a consensus on the Talk Page hasn't been decided on. A consensus should be reached one way or the other, because all this edit warring (mainly from users who don't hold accounts on Wikipedia, nor have done any editing outside of removing information in this article) is extremely unproductive. I'm in favor of leaving the section in. Neateditor123 (talk) 17:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, 100% leave it in. I'm one of the people in favor of leaving it in and I have now registered an account if that makes my vote count more. Feral Emerald (talk) 17:54, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Good. I'm hoping this settles the dispute.--Neateditor123 (talk) 17:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

It seems a formal, neutral RfC could be helpful. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I second this. As ToBeFree mentioned in this article's edit history, the WP:SYNTH concerns haven't been addressed yet, which needs to be done for a consensus to be reached. --Neateditor123 (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

What is the "SYNTH" issue? I have read that link. I don't see what part of the section fits that description. Feral Emerald (talk) 19:05, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

You should ask Instaurare or ToBeFree, who raised the issue.--Neateditor123 (talk) 19:13, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I ask them specifically? Feral Emerald (talk) 19:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

We both have been notified by Neateditor123's mention. The issue was raised in edit summaries and in the "certainly puts himself" section above. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

All I see is statements saying "this violates SYNTH". I don't see any explanation of how any of it violates SYNTH. That web page says that SYNTH is people taking information from sources and drawing their own conclusions, and I don't see any example of that happening in the text that was deleted. Feral Emerald (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm in favor of keeping it, it's relevant to the production of the film and is widely-discussed in media coverage. Leaving it out is ignoring an elephant in the room.65.50.221.18 (talk) 03:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 5 July 2023

Requesting a minor change in the "Critical reception" section. The sentence "On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds an approval rating of 85% based on 13 reviews, with an average rating of 7/10." should be updated to "On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds an approval rating of 87% based on 15 reviews, with an average rating of 7.1/10." This is clearly visible on the film's Rotten Tomatoes page (at least, as of the time of writing), so the article should reflect this. --Neateditor123 (talk) 19:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC) Neateditor123 (talk) 19:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done (but we don't need to update this whenever it changes) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Slate and Vice News

Slate and Vice News are not legitimate sources and have a well-documented history of politicizing movies and TV. 2601:98A:B7F:A9D0:9037:4B8D:1D1A:AAA1 (talk) 22:48, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. Stealthmouse (talk) 23:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Although technically, I'm more concerned with the comments above that seem to be writing an editorial and trying to create editorial commentary rather than simply editing a Wiki page. It is not the job of an editor to determine the veracity of a person nor whether typically used sources are accurate or properly "toned." That is a task for readers. Wiki should be an information source, not a propaganda source. Sadly, it has nosedived heavily toward the latter in recent years. Stealthmouse (talk) 23:05, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Both Slate and Vice News are generally reliable and useable sources. That said, It's debatable how much this article should go into the various controversies surrounding O.U.R., as that isn't the topic of the article. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)