Talk:Yaka mein

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forget the kanji for "beef noodle soup", what about the kanji for YAKA MEIN?!

i finally found it on a couple of menus, but now i forget what it is. i know one theory holds that it is a misspelling of japanese "yaki-", but i think there was a legitimate cantonese term as possible source as well. 66.105.218.36 (talk) 03:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

The spellings "Yet gaw mein" and "yatka mein" are based on Cantonese for a serving of noodles. Colin McLarty (talk) 21:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The "one serving of noodles" theory doesn't pass the smell test. There has to be a better Cantonese word to account for yaka/yatke/yakta -- especially with "meat" itself being pronounced "yuk4". What's wrong with "ngaw4-yuk4 min6" itself as the source? Drop the ngaw4 (beef), you still have "yuk4 min6" (meat noodle soup). That gets you at least to "yak mein".

Korean has the related "yukhoe"/"yukke" (raw beef) and Japanese has "yaki" (fried), but they both seem a stretch to me. If Cantonese has "yak mein" for something similar in the first place, why look any further? 209.172.25.244 (talk) 02:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Yaki mein would probably be considered a fried noodle. Yakisoba, yaki-udon... 162.235.46.160 (talk) 10:50, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The article is promoting stories, not facts

Look for the subject on flickr. There's a lot of folk information on there, and much of it points to the Hampton Roads area of Virginia. My grandfather operated a restaurant in Portsmouth VA, the Tokyo Restaurant, in the 20s and 30s that sold Yock-A-Mein or Yock-O-Mein, and there's a link to photographic evidence My family lived there from some unknown time after 1905 to 1938. My grandfather immigrated in 1905, joined the Navy at some point, but lived and worked in NYC and Newark NJ before moving to Portsmouth, and I don't know the year he moved. All the old timers are dying or dead now, so they can't offer up more info, but the names that have come up of people in the area (passed on) are Alf Mapp and Asa Kelly; my father's name was Taro Kawakami, grandfather was Tahei Kawakami, grandmother was Toki Kawakami.

I suspect that yock predates them, but most origin stories online stop back at the 1940s because people older are dead. But one thing is clear from the comments - that the dish was in the Black community back then as well. However, my grandfather's restaurant was in Newtown, which at the time, during segregation, seemed to be a white working class area. As I was told much later, there were a mix of different Asians there, Japanese, Chinese, and Filipino, but their ability to operate businesses or work went along legal/illegal immigration lines. At the time, Chinese were stripped of their right to immigrate (from 1882 onward) and often worked in the Black community, where, presumably, their legal status wasn't as much of an issue, and they were free to be. I've also read that some integrated into Black families.

A story about the Panama Canal zone says they had yock there, and think there's a Navy connection - and that might be true. The origins may not even be Southern, but naval. There's a report that it was in Toronto, and came over from British Columbia on the west coast of Canada. I've also seen reports of it in Ohio.

It's also important to note that there was a huge amount of interaction between the US and Asia, and within Asia due to WW1, colonization in the Philippines, shipping, oil, Hong Kong, Japanese Imperialism, and relaxation of Asian emigration laws (they were not allowed to emigrate at times, and also not allowed to immigrate at times).

I think the origin of yock is Japanese udon. The basic ingredients are almost the same: wheat noodle, boiled egg, chopped green onions, meat broth with soy sauce, and a piece of kamaboko (fish cake). The older-style udon I grew up with wasn't as fancy as the current one sold in restaurants, which uses a better noodle. We used dry noodles, usually from the Nanka Seimin company. This style predominated in Los Angeles from before the turn of the century until the 1980s, when more frozen and fresh noodles became more common with the increase of businesspeople from Japan.

Here's a photo of the restaurant http://riceball.com/pictures/tokyorestaurant/

John Kawakami 99.146.24.177 (talk) 19:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I should add about the Korean War story - though it's clearly not the origin, it might be reinforced by the fact that udon, called u-dong in Korean, is eaten in Korea due to the Japanese colonization of Korea. My only experience of it is in the US, where u-dong is virtually identical to udon. According to Wikipedia, the origin of udon is China, so it's possible that Korea also had an udon-type noodle, and during the colonial period the contemporary form of udon was not strictly an imposition of the Japanese udon form into Korea, but a synthetic product emerging from the colony, with Korean influences on udon (which are now called Japanese due to colonialism). These new forms and understandings of udon may have been brought over by African American veterans, influencing an already-present yock-a-mein. There are also numerous Korean styles of noodles. The use of vinegar and more meat options might be original from Korea.

Finally, Wikipedia's requirements about linking out to official sources needs to be relaxed in articles that discuss or inform about communities of color. Historically in the US these communities have been oppressed, and their histories suppressed, and are less likely to appear in any kind of official documents. Sometimes these official documents are government secrets - as with the JA internment camps. Other times, these facts are inconvenient truths that threaten the current people in power - and that's usually white people - but are also sometimes people of color. The fact of indigenous communities existing is always a threat to American claims of sovereignty and property, and often also of history.

The official articles cited are, at least partially, wrong. The fact they are official doesn't make them right. 99.146.24.177 (talk) 20:12, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't bet too much on the Korean origin of the story because eating beef was exceptionally rare during the Korean War. As a person with both Korean and Chinese ancestry, my experience and previous family knowledge tells me the Chinese origin of yakamein is more convincing. Komitsuki (talk) 14:44, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

i don't see how the 2 main theories can be 1) mid-19th century origin and 2) korean war origin. it is very easy to know whether the term was in use on menus, etc., in the 100+ years in-between!

competing theories need to...err..."compete" somehow. one of these 2 should be provably false in like 10 mins. 209.172.23.41 (talk) 06:45, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Etymology of "old sober"

There's already some dispute over the origins of the term "yaka main", but I have to question the origins of the nickname "old sober" as well. A quick search shows just as many sources suggesting it's a corruption of soba, rather than its hangover curing properties. Mosmof (talk) 14:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Old soba, LOL! Anything is possible, but that seems a stretch to me. 209.172.25.244 (talk) 02:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

That's odd, but older Japanese American people called sushi o-sushi, and inari o-inari using the honorific. Maybe they called soba "o-soba". I've definitely heard it, but not commonly. -johnk 162.235.46.160 (talk) 10:47, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Boston

We have "yatka mein" and "yakta mein" at the occasional chinese restaurant up here as well (maybe 1 in 20?) -- pork and very-thin noodles in my experience. One of the minor soups served like appetizers - not a full-on meal like pho/ramen. And definitely not a dry/plated noodle dish as is described for Baltimore and Philly.

I imagine we have some places spelling it "yat gaw" as well, I dunno. It is not very well known here. 209.172.25.244 (talk) 02:19, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Yokogiri udon, proposed theory

In Los Angeles, there's a company called Nanka Seimin, a Japanese noodle company that, I think, also makes noodles for Wel Pac. They have an udon called yokogiri. According to my mother, it's not eaten in Japan, and it might be an old style. It's just a noodle that's flat, similar to a linguine. Yoko-giri means side-cut. Nanka has been in business for a little over 100 years. Maybe yakamein is just a reference to that. - john kawakami, again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF43:F040:71C4:E58C:F90C:2C4B (talk) 06:51, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

i enjoyed your previous post, but this one i'm just not seeing. are u asserting that "yoko-giri" SOUNDS close to yatka?! 209.172.23.41 (talk) 06:52, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

New York

I have seen it (and eaten it) in more than one restaurant in New York. Aside from this, I can't believe it is confined to those places mentioned. Kostaki mou (talk) 21:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

This article is not historically correct

This dish, however it's spelled, is hardly peculiar to the New Orleans area - as this article would lead readers to believe. It may have gained some extra popularity there over the years, but it has been a common item on Chinese-American restaurant menus across the U.S. for a very long time (with the most common spelling seeming to be "yat gaw mein").

I remember ordering it in Chinatown in Detroit (back when there was such a place) in the 1960s and 70s, and I have found it listed on Chinese menus in Detroit and elsewhere going back into the 1910s and 20s. In fact, it can still be found on the menus of some old-school Chinese restaurants around the country, like Wo Hop in New York's Chinatown: http://wohopnyc.com/menu.aspx?categoryid=146190 The basic dish seems to be just a bowl of thickish noodles in broth, sort of like a Japanese udon or Korean u-dong (both of which are also derived from Chinese origins), usually with some meat or shrimp, a bunch of vegetables, and often a hard-boiled egg. Although in some places it seems that the broth has morphed over the years into a heavy thickened sauce. It doesn't seem that anyone is fully sure of the origin of the dish, but since it shows up with Cantonese-derived Americanized Chinese dishes like chop suey and chow mein on so many old Chinese menus, I would assume it shares their origin point in Guangzhou/Guangdong (Canton) in southern China. Mingusal (talk) 18:40, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Yakamein in New Orleans is not soup

Not At all. After hurricane Katrina, a lot of purple transplanted and were welcomed to the culture with open arms. So welcomed that they thought it was their own that they could bastardize. Continually. Yakamein has the ingredients of gumbo on the lo mein noodle. Noodles are moist but not sauced. Like lo mein. 2601:243:2501:F610:115A:70D5:4B41:E9E3 (talk) 11:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

What's the published reliable source for that assertion? —C.Fred (talk) 11:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)