Talk:Silver Star

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On 13 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Silver Star Medal. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 13 May 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Both sides are pretty even and have valid arguments. Moves to Silver Star medal or Silver Star (medal) can be discussed separately. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 19:26, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Silver Star → Silver Star Medal – Firstly, consistency with Bronze Star Medal. Secondly, according to article, Silver Star Medal(SSM) seems to be official name. Footwiks (talk) 15:38, 13 May 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 18:15, 19 May 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. >>> Extorc.talk 12:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Garuda28 (talk) 20:49, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Very definitely not the WP:COMMONNAME. Bronze Star Medal should probably be moved to Bronze Star too. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:53, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I'm not sure the proper title, But I think that Wikipedia article title need consistency as belows.

Silver Star and Bronze Star / Silver Star Medal and Bronze Star Medal.

Footwiks (talk) 13:52, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CONSISTENT does not trump WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:53, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Helps clarify at what this article is about. Shorter form "Silver/Bronze Star" is may be recognizable to Americans familiar with military culture, but not outside. Feels a bit slangy/jargony. A helpful improvement for clarity, consistency and is its official name too. Walrasiad (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment would we also replace it with the disambiguation page at "Silver Star" ? -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 06:33, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are many similar disambiguation page. It looks hard.

Bronze Medal (disambiguation)

Bronze Medallion (disambiguation)

Bronze Award (disambiguation)

Silver Star (disambiguation)

Gold Star (disambiguation)

Bronze (disambiguation)

Star (disambiguation)Footwiks (talk) 12:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support On the first page of Google Scholar results for Silver Star, only 2 were for the medal[1]. Others included silver nanoparticle, Silver Star, Montana, a Chinese film journal, etc. From a global perspective, I'm skeptical that this is the primary topic in reliable sources. (t · c) buidhe 04:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, and retain at current title. It seems to me there are three aspects to this - (1) is it primary topic for Silver Star, (2) is Silver Star the more common name for it than Silver Star Medal (or medal), and (3) If we include Medal, how should it be capitalised? Now on (1), I've checked the page views, [2] for some of the most likely entries at Silver Star (disambiguation) and this one dwarfs any other by a factor of 10, with the lion's share across all. So it looks like it is primary topic. Secondly, as I mentioned below, an ngram [3] shows that when one compares awarded a silver star vs awarded a silver star medal, which should exclude most other meanings, the former massively outranks the latter, even taking into account that matches for SS are also matches for SSM. So on (1) and (2) my first choice, and I believe the correct action, is to keep the article exactly where it is. If, for whatever reason, the closer here does nonetheless decide that a move is necessary for whatever reason, I think Silver Star (medal) and Silver Star medal would be preferable, there isn't much evidence it's a proper name. This ngram shows a bit of a lead for the capitalised version, but not the "substantial majority" required by MOS:CAPS; and as recently as 2009, the Silver Star medal variant was in the lead. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 12:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Extorc and ExtorcDev: please could I request a relist on this one? I think there's more analysis needed to figure out the true usage here, and in particular I don't think it's at all clear that "Silver Star Medal" is a proper name, including the "Medal" part. See [4] for example, showing that "awarded a silver star" is hugely more common than "awarded a silver star medal", in any capitalisation. I think either Silver Star medal or Silver Star (medal) might be better titles, and would like to discuss that with the participants. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Amakuru Alright, I will do that. Also, in future if you see any activity from the ExtorcDev account, you can address it to the Extorc account. This one is only used when I wish to test my scripts. ExtorcDev (talk) 12:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, the Department of Defense uses the term Silver Star. There's no qualifier or 'medal' seen anywhere.Intothat darkness 01:39, 27 May 2023 (UTC) (adding) The most recent version of Title 10, USC (the main authorizing document for the military in the United States) also refers to it as the Silver Star here. That same link does mention the Bronze Star Medal, but that could be because there are TWO varieties of the Bronze Star...the standard BSM which can be awarded for general conduct and the BSM with V device indicating it was awarded for Valor (actions in combat). The Silver Star is (in theory at least) only awarded for actions in combat. Intothat darkness 01:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Conflict between content and Infobox?

The page states "The Silver Star Medal is awarded for gallantry, so long as the action does not justify the award of one of the next higher valor awards: the Distinguished Service Cross, the Navy Cross, the Air Force Cross, or the Coast Guard Cross." however the Infobox states that the next higher medals are the Distinguished Service Medal (Army), Navy Distinguished Service Medal, Distinguished Service Medal (Air and Space Forces) and Coast Guard Distinguished Service Medal. I assume that this conflict arises because the Silver Star is a valor award, while the various Distinguished Service Medals are meritorious service awards. How should this conflict/confusion be addressed? Mztourist (talk) 04:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly with an asterisk by the non-valor awards linked to a note explaining the difference. It's an order of precedence thing, and mixing valor and service awards as is often done can be confusing to non-specialists. Intothat darkness 13:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]