User talk:Amakuru

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Talk:Voting system move[edit]

You commented on this debate already, and your voice would be welcome again. Homunq () 00:51, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for sticking around. We disagree, but such reasoned debate makes for a better decision whichever way it goes. Homunq () 15:37, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Homunq thanks, and I very much agree. We're all shooting for the same goal here, which is to improve the encyclopedia, and by discussing things we come up with the best outcome. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 15:39, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I actually think this is winding to a close. If you respond to my latest, then, presuming you don't bring up any new issues that haven't been touched in the long discussion so far, I expect I won't respond in turn. At that point, the discussion will be as ready as it ever will be for closing. I don't envy the person who has to close it, but I do think that it's pretty clear that the current title is not ideal. Homunq () 17:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Well, you misconstrued a quote from me. Though I believe you did so in good faith, I had to respond, despite what I said here just above. But I think both sides are clear now and I'd be willing to live with whatever outcome the closer decides. Homunq () 20:05, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I think your voice would be useful again over there. Homunq () 17:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing plurality voting system. I did that move when I thought the RM would be routine, but yes, it was premature. You can't just click "thank" for moves, but good job.
BTW, you may be interested in the discussion at WP:DRN. Homunq () 12:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

On this day, 11 years ago...[edit]

Balloons-aj.svg Hey, Amakuru. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee!
Have a great day!
Mz7 (talk) 01:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg
@Mz7: oh, thank you very much. What a pleasant surprise on this February morning. Eleven years, eh? Who would've thought it!  — Amakuru (talk) 08:51, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Howard Beach–JFK Airport move[edit]

Just saw you contested all the moves after I had finished the cleanup for this one. I agree that the larger ones with things such as street names and other MOS stuff would probably be best discussed in an RM, but thought this one would be fine (and there were only three requests, not six when I saw it.) Feel free to revert my move here if you want. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:45, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi TonyBallioni - I've started a discussion with Pppery on this at their talk page. I don't have a strong opinion on this, only that there are a lot of examples of this out there, and almost every NYC subway station is consistent in using a disambiguator, even where one isn't needed, so it seemed like we might want a wider discussion on the whole set. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 15:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Makes sense now that I see it is going to be a relatively large request. I don't have a strong opinion either, and have to get off for real life for a decent bit now, so don't have the time to undo it. Like I said, I have no objection to a rollback here if you think it best. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:51, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Rwandan Civil War[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Rwandan Civil War you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Lemurbaby -- Lemurbaby (talk) 17:40, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Southern American English dispute[edit]

Hello, I got your name off and active list of admins. I was wondering if you could please help in regards to this topic: On the southern American English page, Me, along with Kelthan and Dubyavee ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Southern_American_English#Delete_image ) opposed taking the map off. It was originally removed without any edit summary. Since it was sourced, I heard you can't remove content without justification. That's three opinions against one that have given feedback on this. I took this to Bilcat who reverted our edits. I politely contacted Bilcat on his talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BilCat&action=history), and he immediately removed and ignored my message. Can you please help? If you look at the history page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Southern_American_English&action=history You can see both Kelthan and I were against taking the map off. And there was a previous discussion about this on the talk page here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Southern_American_English#Delete_image where Dubyavee disagreed with taking the map off. Bilcat then reverted this falsely claiming the consensus was against this. The map was originally taken off without given and edit summary, despite it being sourced. Can you please help? Thanks. Kevinfromtx (talk) 23:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2017[edit]

2017 Kids' Choice Awards[edit]

Please restore the full protection on this page until March 12.  Please contact User:Jo-Jo Eumerus for questions about the AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2017 Kids' Choice Awards.  Thank you, Unscintillating (talk) 01:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Unscintillating: yes, I saw the AfD in question, but as was mentioned in the nomination for moving of the page, the date of March 12 did not match the consensus in the discussion. Most participants called for deletion until the nominations were announced, which was in February. I don't want to tread on Jo-Jo Eumerus's toes, so if he wants to assert protection per the AfD until March 12 that's fine with me - Jo-Jo please advise if that's the case. But unless Jo-Jo objects, I don't see a reason to keep this protected any longer. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:28, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
You were the only one in the nom who wanted it locked until the 12th @Unscintillating:; that was unsustainable and eventually someone created the article under the wrong title. I wasn't going to do a WP:DR just for the sake of WP:BURO and all of my efforts to open the title with confirmed information failed. As I said in the pagemove discussion, I had no objections once the noms were released and I wasn't going to delete under the wrong title just to make someone think they wasted their time in creating an article that could be created if not for Gabucho181 being a pain on kidvid articles going back years. If not for them, we wouldn't have even had to lock out the title. Nate (chatter) 14:57, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
I don't care enough about the exact duration of the protection to complain. Folks in AfD were recommending a temporary protection and Unscintillating was the only one to offer a timeframe, so I went for that. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
  • The creation of an article at a misspelling is exactly the type of disruption predicted in the AfD.  There was no discussion of the protection either before or after the RM, so an obvious interpretation is that the editors at the move didn't know about the Draft article and want to continue editing there so as not to disturb the protection.  The only purpose of having this article on Wikipedia's main space currently is to promote the event.  As for the concept of consensus, consensus is not a vote count, and isolating one !vote and claiming that it was at the edge of consensus is not consistent with what defines consensus on Wikipedia.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:15, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – March 2017[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2017).

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Gnome-colors-list-add.svg AmortiasDeckillerBU Rob13
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Green check.svg Guideline and policy news

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  • A recent query shows that only 16% of administrators on the English Wikipedia have enabled two-factor authentication. If you haven't already enabled it please consider doing so.
  • Cookie blocks should be deployed to the English Wikipedia soon. This will extend the current autoblock system by setting a cookie for each block, which will then autoblock the user after they switch accounts under a new IP.
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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:14, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Change of Page Title[edit]

Hi Amakuru - please can you review my response regarding the page 'Andrew Jeptha' many thanks MikeJep (talk) 18:14, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

MoS and COMMONNAME[edit]

At an RM, you commented "I don't support the notion that our MOS automatically overrides WP:COMMONNAME on purely stylistic questions. Where sources overwhelmingly style something a certain way, so should we." The conflict you imagine does not exist, since MOS:TM, the guideline covering stylization of names, has essentially the same rule.

Where actual conflicts usually arise is when a particular camp misinterprets COMMONNAME as saying something it does not, e.g. to use the most common name in highly specialized sources – which often prefer some aberrant stylistic quirk like over-capitalization or not hyphenating compound modifiers, that the party in question wants to impose on Wikipedia to match what they are used to in their academic journal or their rapper fan magazines (or whatever the "field" is) – and they then try to override MoS with a bogus COMMONNAME argument, misapplying the "policy trumps guideline" reasoning. It's bogus because:

  1. COMMONNAME does not favor specialist sources, anywhere, and MoS actually disfavors them for style matters (see MOS:FAQ), because they are not more reliable for how to write an encyclopedia for a general audience, they're only more reliable about factual material particular to their field. (Belief otherwise is the WP:Specialized-style fallacy, and it is absurd on its face.) Example: whether so-and-so fossil is a dinosaur or something else is a matter that a specialized work or set of works can tell us. They do not tell us whether we have to write "Dinosaur" or "dino-saur" or "Dino Saur" versus "dinosaur" (to contrive an example, but one that has many parallels in medical and other jargon the treatment of which is inconsistent). The reliable sources for that style matter are a) what mainstream style guides say about it, and b) how major, general-audience publishers (newspapers, Oxford U. Press, etc.) treat it. MoS is already based on examinations of both, which is why its rules work about 99.9% of the time.

    MOS:TM is the escape valve for unusual cases where almost all RS do something they wouldn't normally do for a parallel case. Examples: Virtually all RS write iPhone instead of IPhone (except at the beginning of a sentence, where this spelling is common) or Iphone or I-Phone, and write Deadmau5 instead of Deadmaus. These are both special cases of going along with unusual trademark stylization, when the same publishers would not write Alien3 in imitation of movie poster logos but use Alien 3, and would not write "P!nk" to mimic album covers but use "Pink" for the singer.

  2. COMMONNAME is not a style policy; it's the policy that tells us what the common name of someone or something is at all, regardless how it is styled by various writers, which varies widely for a large number of things (this lack of consistency is why MoS exists in the first place, to pick an option among many so editors stop fighting about style trivia and get back to work). Example, from MR: "J. J. Watt", "J.J. Watt", "JJ Watt", "J J Watt" are all the same name for COMMONNAME purposes, versus something else like "Justin James Watt" or something even more different like "J. J. McDougal" or "X. B. Watt". There is no "COMMONSTYLE" policy and never will be one; what you are looking for is MOS:TM already, and it already says that do what the RS do if the RS are consistently in favor of one style in particular (a rule found elsewhere in MOS, e.g. at MOS:CAPS, etc.).

    Why the MOS:TM material is not in WP:AT policy is because style trivia like this doesn't rise to policy level. Readers may be genuinely confused if something that has a recognizable, precise, natural, and concise name (see WP:CRITERIA) – which is usually the most common name in sources – is for some inexplicable reason put under a completely different article title here. Thus we have a titles policy. But no one is likely to be confused by a tiny spelling or punctuation difference in most cases, and WP:Common sense, WP:IAR, and WP:SMALLDETAILS apply in such a case. We have guidelines not policies about style nit-picks mainly for consistency and to curtail the habit of editwarring over minutiae. Remember (or become aware) that WP:AT originated as part of MoS; the present article-titles policy is the thin cream off the top of the style guidelines that were the matters the community decided were so crucial they had to be elevated to policy, i.e. the only style stuff that was essential to WP functioning properly as an encyclopedia and as a community/project. That's the real operational distinction of policies from guidelines; the latter are just evolved best practices for helping those goals be achieved smoothly, while policies ensure they can be achieved at all. If you go through all the policies and the guidelines you'll see that this is true, even if WP:POLICY doesn't get around to explaining it in quite those terms.

There is a misperception of conflict about COMMONNAME, because people will !vote with comments like "Spell/punctuate/capitalize it this way, per COMMONNAME" when they really should write "per MOS:TM", and then when other people point out that COMMONNAME has nothing to do with style and they're presenting a broken rationale, the first party's head asplode in confusion and disbelief, because they have not closely read the relevant policies and guidelines and are making incorrect assumptions about what COMMONNAME actually says. It's exactly the same sort of (very common) error as asserting "this is trademarked under copyright law", or "this is a patent under trademark law". Yes, they're all forms of intellectual property, but they are different regulatory regimes for different types of things, just as COMMONNAME and MOS:TM are superficially similar Wikipedia rules of thumb about names, but are also different regulatory regimes for different types of concerns. Or, if you like, it's analogous to arguing that person A should not be mentioned in person B's bio because A is not notable, when WP:Notability has nothing to do with who/what can be mentioned in an article, only with who/what can have a separate article; the correct policy to cite about in-article relevance is WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE, which is a totally different document with different concerns, even if to the casual observer it's easy to confuse them as they both touch on inclusion and encyclopedic relevance in different contexts.

PS: I've taken the time to cover this stuff because I'm betting that just helping one admin, who may be involved in RM and related matters, per month to dispel the misbelief in a conflict between AT and MOS could be enough for a positive sea change in strife levels over the course of a year or so, given the current size of the admin pool involved in relevant closes, and how frequently requested moves and similar style RfCs involve the same issues and confusions, yet the unfortunate frequency with which closer give conflicting closes, often based on incorrect interpretation of COMMONNAME.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  04:33, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

User talk:EdRooney[edit]

Just a quick heads up, I reverted your deletion of this user talk (and then immediately deleted the problematic content in question on it). User talk pages are almost never deleted - editors may need to look through the user's history for warnings, for example. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the heads up Ritchie333. I'll bear that in mind next time, and just delete the revisions only. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2017[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2017).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:54, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Translation into Kirundi[edit]

Hello, Amakuru. I saw how you reformatted Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Cooperation (Rwanda) back in February, and I decided to do the same at Ministry of External Relations and International Cooperation (Burundi). But, I have a certain problem: I saw that, at the Rwandan article, you translated the name of the ministry into Kinyarwanda (Minisiteri y'Ububanyi n'Amahanga n'ubutwererane), and I tried to do the same at the Burundian article – namely, to translate Ministry of External Relations and International Cooperation into Kirundi. Still, I was unable to find a correct and reliable translation online, so I must ask you for help with it. I am really not familiar with local African languages in any way, so I would really appreciate your input here. Cheers! --Sundostund (talk) 16:43, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

First adminship anniversary![edit]

Wikipe-tan mopping.svg
Wishing Amakuru a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Chris Troutman (talk) 17:56, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Chris troutman: thank you very much, the greeting is much appreciated!  — Amakuru (talk) 21:45, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Queen(')s Road Peckham[edit]

I have started a discussion about redirects to Queens Road Peckham railway station and the road it is named for at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London Transport#Queen(')s Road Peckham. As you have had involvement with one or more of the existing redirects, your comments are invited there. Thryduulf (talk) 21:46, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2017[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2017).

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Administrator changes

added KaranacsBerean HunterGoldenRingDlohcierekim
removed GdrTyreniusJYolkowskiLonghairMaster Thief GarrettAaron BrennemanLaser brainJzGDragons flight

Guideline and policy news

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Miscellaneous

  • Following an RfC, the editing restrictions page is now split into a list of active restrictions and an archive of those that are old or on inactive accounts. Make sure to check both pages if searching for a restriction.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:19, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Release of Palmyra[edit]

I can't figure out why Release of palmyra was deleted by you. Would you mind elaborating on this? Thanks. --Mhhossein talk 11:47, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Mhhossein: the redirect was requested for speedy deletion by HyperGaruda, on the grounds that "Release of Palmyra" is not a semantically plausible title. I agreed with the rationale, and therefore deleted the redirect. The term in question yields almost nothing on Google, and is therefore not a useful redirect on Wikipedia. "Liberation of Palmyra" would be the usual way of phrasing that. As a side note, even if the term itself was legitimate, the casing is wrong. "Palmyra" should have a capital letter. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:08, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. "Release of Palmyra" seems much more reasonable. --Mhhossein talk 12:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Improper RM close; please help[edit]

Greetings Amakuru! I noticed that an inexperienced user made an improper close of Talk:Donald Trump disclosure of classified information to Russia#Requested move 17 May 2017: the discussion was only open 3 days, it's not an obvious SNOW and the closer is involved. I would have reverted and explained what he did wrong, but I'm involved too. Could you please take a look at the matter and dispense some sage advice? Many thanks in advance, — JFG talk 20:37, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Never mind, somebody else intervened. Happy Sunday! — JFG talk 21:55, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
@JFG: OK, thanks!

Template:ITN[edit]

Please reverse your edit to the image, as discussed at WP:MPE, the image of the Manchester Arena is preferable to that of the Iranian President, as there is otherwise an implication that Iran is in some way involved in the bombing, which it is not. Agree that image quality is poorer, but there is an overriding reason to have the arena image. Mjroots (talk) 16:14, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mjroots, thanks for the ping, and apologies, yes I already realised that and reverted, I hadn't looked at ERRORS. It would have been helpful if someone had put a note to that effect at WP:ITN/C, since the "consensus" there (albeit with only TRM's comment) seemed to be that we don't usually post exterior shots. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 16:23, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
No problem, it's awkward when TRM says one thing in one place, and the complete opposite somewhere else. Anyway, I've added a hidden note to T:ITN re the use of the arena image. That should cover the situation until such time as a new story and image comes along. Mjroots (talk) 16:26, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Vijayawada Airport[edit]

Talk:Vijayawada Airport the discussion was closed. But I want a review for international naming. Though the name in the requested cannot be placed now, it was upgraded recently to international status, so atleast need review for international word in the name.

Ref:ref1, ref2.

--Vin09(talk) 04:18, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

  • Hi @Vin09: thanks for your message. I gathered that the airport has gained "international status", but I didn't see a lot of evidence that the name has actually changed. The article you cite above still calls it "Vijayawada Airport", but notes that it is now an international airport. That's not the same as saying that the WP:COMMONNAME has changed to "Vijayawada International Airport". Per WP:NAMECHANGES, you would have to show that the majority of reliable sources now use the new name. I think the best thing would be to start a new move request specifically to that title (that way we don't get muddled with opposes for the much longer name). Since you've requested this from me, I'll start it for you, although note that I neither support nor oppose the suggestion. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 07:29, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you.--Vin09(talk) 07:31, 24 May 2017 (UTC)