Talk:Teddy Boys

Winkle pickers

My admittedly fuzzy memories of the period were that Teddy Boys wore long narrow pointed leather shoes known as "Winkle Pickers". Is that confused brain cells or do others remember more clearly? (I was 10 in 1959 so was not a "Ted" myself) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.245.17 (talk) 23:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they did. I wasn't even alive then, but I know from my step dad. (The only real-life teddy boy I have ever met) ~Sana (talk) 16:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Even Cliff Richard agrees. In '59 he released the single 'Winkle Picker shoes'(Dave The Ted (talk) 18:45, 22 March 2010 (UTC))

Winkle-Pickers appeared at the end of the '50's. I know of no photo's showing any Edwardian wearing any. The Oxford brogue was very popular, as well as the Creeper; (Teddy Girls sometimes wore espadrilles: please see the June '55 edition of Ken Russell's Teddy Girls' photo's); but the true, early conservative styles don't conform to the mythical media images, or appeal to those who use them to ridicule, so only dedicated enthusiasts know. The '59 single by Richard was 'Pointed Toe Shoes'. The song makes the very interesting observation that they were not knew: "Pointed toes are coming back again...". They were very popular for a time in what's now refered to as mediaeval England. They, like the horse for the Norman when Saxon's mostly walked, were for nobility. Some were so long that ties connected the tip of them to the wearer's body to prevent their tripping over. Heath St John (talk) 01:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Photos

For an article that's closely connected to a style of clothing, it's odd that the only photos are of cars. Could really do with some pics of Teds. DeCausa (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I second that! That is what I came to the discussion page to say! APDEF (talk) 15:52, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

The photos are poor examples: Showaddywaddy would be better than Mud, the beetlecrushers are quite unusual in being two-tone, and the drape jacket looks like an atypical one-off wedding special rather than being a 'standard' drape jacket of the 1970s period. Cassandra

There are no images of real Teds available on Commons, and there aren't even any free use pictures of Showaddywaddy or Crazy Cavan.

The answer may be to link externally to photos of Teds. See Wikipedia:External_links#What_can_normally_be_linked item 3: "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues...." I've added an external links section. Of the universe (talk) 17:37, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Teddy girls edit

I removed some details which were not supported by reference #10. The teddy boy / girl phenomenon was as common in South London as in North London. The reference details South London areas. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Best source of info... Should be reffed and linked

Fair though this page is, the best source for info on the history of the Teds that I've ever found is: http://www.edwardianteddyboy.com/page2.htm

It's a large well-illustrated compendium of info about teds from earliest times onwards. Should be reffed and linked if nothing else. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.216.163 (talk) 13:23, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

I have done something of a major edit, mainly adding citations to sections which had no or few references (I have then removed the refimprove templates too). I have included the recommended history link above (it's referenced three times), though I also deleted a paragraph (based on the same website) that was a) close, IMHO, to a copyright violation, and b) included assertions that needed expansion/additional citations. Paul W (talk) 18:41, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

A Clockwork Orange

The once-popular novel and movie depict a fictional future youth cultural style based on the Teds, including extrapolated future street slangy vernacular based on both English and Russian. The book was my introduction to the concepts, decades ago. Anthony Burgess's characters leaned towards classical, rather than Rock music, and liked chemical stimulants and violent crime, at least in the case of his protagonist. rags (talk) 10:14, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Not quite sure what you're trying to get across, but if you're after commentary inserting into the article based on this you'll need to find sources to support the theory that Alex & the Droogs are based on Teddy Boys. Neither the film nor the novel article mention them for a start. Chaheel Riens (talk) 11:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Broken references

http://subcultureslist.com/teddy-girls/ is in a dead domain. https://web.archive.org/web/20190107061427/http://subcultureslist.com/teddy-girls/ is one working archive.org link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Resuna (talk • contribs) 20:48, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

That ! Picture.

I wish I had the technical ability to remove this main page's picture; or at least to add one of my own. In no sense could it be deemed properly to represent its subject matter. It's as demeaning in its no doubt mistaken attempt at authenticity to the culture's mentality, let alone its place in Britain's sartorial history, as is that to a now earlier generation's mind unerasable Showodywoddy (sic) mockery. If this individual were to have appeared among the movement's originators at the time of the culture's first appearing, those behavioural traits, (attributed by those journalists, whose mischievous attention-seeking purpose was to alarm the public by smearing all, when describing the actions of a few), wrongly believed to be as much a part of the 'dress-code' as the clothes, should likely have been enthusiastically demonstrated against him. As an example of how anything may succumb to decline, it's interesting; there's no patent on daily invention. And I know that true originators, (I'm thinking now of Marianne Joan Elliot-Said, of X-Ray Spex), don't follow, but originate from within, sometimes; which is why, liked or not, she eschewed traditional Punk clothing, and brought her ideas of fashion sense into that movement. I'm also aware of Mahler's truism about how the ashes shouldn't be venerated, but the flame passed on; yes, each flicker within it is unlike another; and I see the potential worth of that. But I see too the potential for mockery, at which people, (especially British people), are masters for successfully undermining anything that's either secretly disliked, (by joining it and subverting from within); or, by its being taken over by advertising men, for lp-and cd-cover salesmanship, (comic book grunge-'art'); or, the natural peaks of stupidity which something must reach, to which an empire expands, or a fever rises, before the latter's pus can be expelled, and those who've maintained a lower heat over the decades are ready once more to carry on; originating, still, but within those rippling, mutable boundaries of taste which always admit of those living alterations like the rises and falls of a pulse make to the skin's surface; but not of those which wear its bowels on the outside: and the contents of bowels, as we here see, need always to be expelled; which leads to a good place once again to request of someone with greater skill than I to place as a pictorial headline on here something representative of authenticity; something which should first give, to the casual reader, the truthful, chronological sense: and in the 'AS'cending, not, as does this, in the 'DE'scending sense. Heath St John (talk) 23:33, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Do you have a specific photo in mind? Public domain/creative commons photos of 1950s and 60s Teddy Boys are difficult to find. Of the universe (talk) 06:46, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello. By 'That' picture, I was referring to the one at the top of the 'Teddy Boy' main page; the one suiable for John Cleese's 'Ministry of Funny Walks'. I don't know how long the copyright lasts, or who took them, but, on Pinterest, and Google, generally, there are many original 1950's photo's, showing just how conservative many of the real styles first were. Thanks. Heath St John (talk) 01:27, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

External link to photos

I've added an external links section to link to photos of Teddy Boys because photos are crucial to understanding the subculture and style, but no creative commons photos of 1950's Teds appear to exist. This is in keeping with Wikipedia:External_links#What_can_normally_be_linked item 3: "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues..." However, I cannot figure out who owns edwardianteddyboy.com, so I'm not totally sure it's an appropriate website to link to. If someone could confirm that the website is not violating copyright, and/or add a link to photos from an appropriate source, that would be great. Of the universe (talk) 17:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Haha, oops, turns out there already was an external links section. Of the universe (talk) 19:53, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Smutty.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:38, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Irrelevant McCartney mention

The mention of the McCartney song Teddy Boy is not relevant here. The song is about a young man who happens to be called Teddy. Nothing to suggest that the fellow in question is a "Teddy Boy". I suggest that it should be removed. Lazyzee (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Removed the mention. Paul W (talk) 13:28, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Removal is reasonable for the time being, but it may be worth looking for a reliable source connecting the song with the subculture. The Beatles Anthology talks extensively about teddy boys, they were a major influencing factor to the early Beatles, and McCartney would not have named the young man "Teddy" purely by accident. Of the universe (talk) 18:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

The captions under the photos have wrong dates. 1977 the Teddy Boys were gone.

The article itself says Teddy boys were around from the early 1950s to mid-1960s. By 1977, even hippies were old hat. I didn't look at all the photos, but the first two say 1977, and that's just not possible. 96.225.48.6 (talk) 21:29, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

It is possible. The article includes a section on later revivals of Teddy Boy fashions in the 1970s. The images from 1977 probably should be moved to that section. Paul W (talk) 22:29, 4 February 2024 (UTC)