Talk:Mormons

edits that should be made immediatly

Whenever someone reads this site, false facts are being fed to the public. This site should correct people that the term Mormon is incorrect. All the information should be changed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Mormon page should be a page to correct us, and a link should be left redirecting them to the church of Jesus christ of latter Saints. Then people will be learning the correct terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.bennion281 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

The article does in fact state that the official term used by LDS since 2018 is "Latter-day saints" rather than mormons. It does not state that the official term is mormon, it is a term used in general though by a majority of people. Also the term mormonism doesn't only apply to LDS church, it applies to other denominations as well (edited former comment to include this). CIN I&II (talk) 03:53, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

The Associated Press Stylebook says in 2018 this church moved away from calling itself the Mormon church or the LDS church, and the church itself has issued a style guide. Maybe the editors of this article should begin to think about moving it. I note the article became a GA in 2012. A redirect from Mormon would be fine. -SusanLesch (talk) 02:13, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Your assertion violates the WP:NPOV rule due to the fact that there are more Mormon churches than the LDS one. We cannot preference a single Mormon church over all others just because it is the largest of them.

I may also point out that the correct terms for the LDS church have only been "correct" for a few years now, and have consistently flip-flopped over the decades as far back as 1834 when Sidney Rigdon proposed the first name change, because too many people were starting to associate the term "Mormon" with the bad behavior of the missionaries and members. However, the term "Mormon" was only invented because the young church had failed to provide terminology or doctrine that was in any way distinct from the Campbellite church (Rigdon's former church), just a few miles down the road. The preference for the LDS church may never flip again, but if history is any guide, it will flip back to favoring "Mormon" in 10 to 20 years from now. Frogontrombone (talk) 07:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Etymology?

According to the wiktionary they are simply derived from the eponymous book, also from two things the eponymous prohet and his eponymous water. Makes sense? I think not! Who ever invented that relgiious word for no good reason at all?2404:8000:1027:85F6:A958:5DEB:3F43:D77B (talk) 07:05, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

There is no use of the word prior to 1829 when Smith himself started publishing sections from his upcoming book in local papers. There are some conspiracy theories that Smith read it on a map somewhere, but the link is so tenuous that it is not credible. Frogontrombone (talk) 06:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2023

Mormonism is not a religion. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often referred to as Saints have been referred to as Mormons. While some leaders and members allowed this derogatory term to proliferate its intention was to suggest the Saints were not Christian, and some times was used to describe those who were sympathetic to the persecution of the Saints. The current President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as asked the media and the world to describe the church using the original name "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." It would show great respect to this organization to adhere to their requests. It is ok to describe Mormonism, but the description should be that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have in the past been called Mormons and the word Mormon is used to describe members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but the current leadership and many Saints in the past have rejected the term Mormon or Mormonism because they consider themselves disciples of Jesus Christ not disciples of Mormon.

Title: Representation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Members

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the LDS Church, emphasizes the importance of accurate and respectful representation. The leadership of the Church has expressed a preference for members to be referred to as "Saints" rather than using the terms "Mormon" or "Mormonism." This preference is rooted in a desire to emphasize the central role of Jesus Christ in the faith and to avoid potentially misleading or derogatory associations.

The term "Saints" reflects the Church's doctrinal focus on following the teachings of Jesus Christ and being disciples of His gospel. The use of "Mormon" and "Mormonism" has historical roots but is considered by many members and leaders as a less accurate or complete representation of the Church's beliefs.

In light of this, there is a call for media, scholars, and the general public to be mindful of the Church's preference and to use the official name, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," or the term "Latter-day Saints" when referring to its members. This respectful language choice aligns with the Church's commitment to fostering understanding and promoting accurate portrayals of its identity and beliefs.

By using terminology that aligns with the Church's preferences, contributors can contribute to a more accurate and respectful representation of the faith, acknowledging the beliefs and self-identification of its members. Jason Wasden (talk) 20:23, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 20:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Mormonism refers to any religious adherent that accepts the Book of Mormon as scripture, regardless of whether they prefer to be called such or not.

Unless you can be more specific, there are no edits to make because 1) the LDS church is not the only Mormon church and favoring it over all others violates the WP:NPOV rule. 2) The long-form name preferences of the LDS church are too cumbersome for natural language and the short-form preferences, such as 'the Church' or 'Saints' are too generic to be able to distinguish between the LDS church and, say, the Catholic Church which uses the same terms. Frogontrombone (talk) 06:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2023

This article has major flaws stemming from the mislabeling of members of the Church of Jesus Christ as "Mormons." We are NOT nor have we ever been Mormons. We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints. Period. Larsonscottr (talk) 05:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see WP:COMMONNAME Cannolis (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Larsonscottr: While CJC may not like the use of the term, "Mormons" has long been a common term for members of Mormonism, or the LDS Movement, including but not exclusively referring to CJC. —C.Fred (talk) 05:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, edits need to be factually based, and your complaint is not.

Since you do not seem to be aware, "Mormons" was what was used to describe "proselytes of the Book of Mormon" starting in 1831 because, unhelpfully, the church just wanted to be called "the Church of Jesus Christ", a term also claimed by Sidney Rigdon's former church literally a few miles down the road, and a term claimed by literally every Christian sect in history. Despite Rigdon later deciding in 1834 that he didn't like the term "Mormon" because the public was starting to associate the term with the bad behavior of the members and missionaries, Joseph later adopted the term as central to the identity of the faith. Joseph Smith himself frequently referred to the members of the church as "Mormons", especially during the period between 1838 and 1842.

The current revisionist history you are pushing is a recent phenomenon promoted by Russel Nelson who appears to have a beef with Gordon Hinckley who publicly reprimanded Nelson in 1990 for being too extreme and pedantic about his doctrine around the importance of the name. See here for more: https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/nbh7f6/russell_m_nelson_apostate/

The fact is that the LDS sect has shifted its position on what it prefers to be called about every 30 years or so since 1834.

Besides, the LDS church is simply not the only Mormon church out there. There are nearly 100 distinct Mormon sects, most of which are quite small, but all of which believe themselves to be the one true Mormon church, whether they prefer that name or not. The academic umbrella term for describing any adherent to the restoration movement started by Smith is "Mormon", whether any particular sect likes it or not, because it is a descriptive label with significant utility. Frogontrombone (talk) 05:09, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

"We are NOT nor have we ever been Mormons." Then who were those people in the 2010-2018 I'm a Mormon campaign? ~Awilley (talk) 05:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Tithing interviews?

In this[1] edit, ChristensenMJ changed the text to say members are "encouraged" to meet to discuss tithes. This is not what the source says, so the text fails WP:V. ChristensenMJ: have you an explanation? Bon courage (talk) 16:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the question, Bon courage. I just believe it sounded far too mandatory or required as it was worded. Members are certainly invited to attend, but it's not compulsory....there are certainly plenty who even pay a full tithe, but don't take the opportunity to visit with their bishop. Now, admittedly, I don't know the specific wording Bushman includes in his brief introduction to Mormonism. However, even when the LDS Church made some adjustments to the name and its focus in August 2022, as shown [2] here, it's identified for as a time for individuals and families to enhance and teach the blessings of the voluntary contributions that comprise payment of tithes. ChristensenMJ (talk) 17:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

It would be better to abide by WP:V, surely. Isn't editing text without have the source to hand really problematic? Bon courage (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

That is self-evident for all who engage in good faith WP editing, as you have done, and as I have done. The question you pose also implies that these good faith editing efforts are black and white and can only be conveyed in the way an individual editor feels something should read. ChristensenMJ (talk) 17:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I think for something to be "read" in a different way, first it must be actually read. I don't the the issue is anything to do with good/bad faith but we have a duty to make sure content is WP:Verified, in accord with core policy, no? Bon courage (talk) 17:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

@Bon courage: For my part, the reason I removed the discussion of the interview in my edit was because it is misleading to say or imply that the bishop is the one determining if the member has paid a full tithe. The bishop does not make any inquires into the method used to calculate the tithe (is it on gross, net, pre-tax, etc). It is the church member themself who determines if the tithe is full or not. Therefore I don't think the "interview" is that significant or necessary to mention. --FyzixFighter (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

The Church Handbook states that "All members are invited to meet with the bishop to: *Declare to the bishop their status as tithe payers *Ensure their contribution records are accurate." They are invited, not required. I think the new wording is an improvement and more accurate. Bahooka (talk) 04:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I think describing tithing interviews is getting a little too far into the weeds for this top-level article. ~Awilley (talk) 04:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Awilley. I think that details of tithing interviews would be better placed in Tithing in Mormonism article. Epachamo (talk) 05:19, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2024

Please change:

[Since 2018, the LDS Church has emphasized a desire for its members be referred to as "members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", or more simply as "Latter-day Saints".]

To:

[Since 2018, the Church has emphasized its desire to keep the name of Jesus Christ within its name even when speaking casually. This went so far as to even say "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan."]

Here is the source for this: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng&id=p15#p15 2601:681:602:2B40:4007:E589:9DB6:6908 (talk) 05:04, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

It may be useful to modify "Since 2018, the Church..." to "Since 2018, the most popular sect..." or something similar. 2601:681:602:2B40:4007:E589:9DB6:6908 (talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)