Talk:Islam in the Netherlands

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Islam in the Netherlands article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Islam in the Netherlands. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Islam in the Netherlands at the Reference desk.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

Islam Mid‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Religion: Interfaith Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of Interfaith work group, a work group which is currently considered to be inactive.

Netherlands

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.NetherlandsWikipedia:WikiProject NetherlandsTemplate:WikiProject NetherlandsNetherlands articles

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Raed Rafei (January 23, 2009). "Maker of Dutch film "Fitna" to face trial". The Los Angeles Times.

Untitled

Dear Sirs, I am A Saudi Arabian PhD Holder since 30 years. I saw the Interview done today by Mr. Radi Suudi with the Ex-Amsterdam Mayor. I was very impressed with the discussion and would like to communicate with both of them Please send me their e-mails. I do not speak dutch, but I was reading the Arabic Translation. Regards, Dr. Hilmi K. Turky

I removed the "controversy" part because i thought it wasn't NPOV nor factual correct. the deleted part was:

Controversy

The general consensus of the current cabinet (Second Balkenende cabinet) is that they find the threat of Islam quite bothering. Especially the right-wing political VVD are of the opinion that the Islamic community inside the Netherlands must be restricted and have less rights, for example founding Islamic schools. Moreover a member of the second cabinet, Ayaan Hirsi Ali (also a VVD member), became very controversial when she made some comments about Muhammad, the founder of Islam. She accused him of being a tyrant and an abuser of women.

The things i had problems with are: 1. The general consensus of the current cabinet (Second Balkenende cabinet) is that they find the threat of Islam quite bothering.

What is the source of this ? isn't it closer to the truth that they find not islam itself, but extreme islam "quite bothering" as well as some problems caused by som morrocan youth possibly linked to a failing integration?

2. Especially the right-wing political VVD are of the opinion that the Islamic community inside the Netherlands must be restricted and have less rights, for example founding Islamic schools.

the thing some peaople in the VVD wants is restriction on founding religious schools in general. of course, the reason they want to do this is their fear for muslim schools being a obstacle in integration. Wilders, who is not in the VVD anymore, has been quoted recently saying he wants to limit rights for muslims. i do not know wether he said that litterally or it was a quote out of context.

3. Moreover a member of the second cabinet, Ayaan Hirsi Ali (also a VVD member), became very controversial when she made some comments about Muhammad, the founder of Islam. She accused him of being a tyrant and an abuser of women.

one this is basically correct, except Hirsi Ali is not a member of cabinet Balkenende II, but a member of parliament.

1 million

There are one million people with a 'muslim' background in the Netherlands. All Iranians are counted for expamle, but many of them have christian backgrounds. And not all of people that really have muslim backgrounds are practicising muslims. There are less then 500 musks in the country. If similar methods to the ones used to count for example Catholics are used, 200,000 to 300,000 is more likely.

No, the bulk of Dutch Muslims is made up out of Moroccans and Turks, almost all of whom are Muslim, and of whom there are a LOT more than 300,000.

This is not true, the number has in fact been declining for several years now. Only 66% of second generation Turks in the Netherlands are muslim, and over 60% of all Iranians are atheist as well. I thought the number of Moroccan atheists was something around 10 to 15%. So in fact you can't say 'allmost all of them are Muslim'. I think the number of around 700.000-800.000 is very reasonable.NeoRetro (talk) 16:22, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion of page

Hi, I've added a lot of new information to the page, about the countries of origin, geographical spread of Muslim population, income, housing, education and employment, political participation, relations between Muslims and native Dutch, and radicalisation of some young Muslims. I'm done for a while now though! If there are any issues with any of the info I added, I'll gladly adapt though. Thanks to Misheu for already doing some reformatting of the (sub)topics. No-itsme 14:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for butting in all the time.. Had I known you were going to add so much, i would have waited with my little changes. You certainly gave me more ideas for additions to this entry Misheu 19:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, your formatting corrections (categorisation in topics/subtopics, spelling) were very useful, thank you. No-itsme 21:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch East Indies

This article fails to mention the Dutch East Indies, today the Republic of Indonesia, which was colonized and governed by the Dutch for 350 years. The Republic of Indonesia is the state with the largest Muslim population in the world and there was only about a century of overlap between the adoption of Islam an the start of colonization. This means that formally from 1800 up to 1949 the Netherlands were the empire/state with the largest Muslim population in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.93.142.210 (talk) 21:01, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of Citation

Sorry about adding a new section in; my edit didn't fit into any of the others. I removed the tables involving muslim demographics by city, including the one regarding baby names, due to a lack of citation for almost two years (since 2012). Wikipedia rules state that I should include the removed portion in the talk page, so here it is.

Significant population centers (2013 estimate)
City	Muslim population	City ratio	Number of mosques
Amsterdam	140,000	17.5%	37-40
Rotterdam	100,000	16.2%	42
The Hague	85,000	16.9%	30-35
Utrecht	45,000	14%	15-18
Eindhoven	18,500	8.5%	7-8

Most popular names for baby boys in Amsterdam (2010 ranking)
Rank	Name
1	Mohamed
2	Adem (Adam)
3	Rayan
4	Max
5	Noah
6	Mohammed

Dual citizenship.

It is strange that no difference is made between a Dutch born with dual nationality and a foreigner with dual nationality, one of them being Dutch.

It is just as strange, that cabinet members in Dutch congress go out of their way to favour cheap migrant labour, with dual passport, while narry a thought is made about Dutch born, or children of dutch citizens born overseas, with dual citizenship

Seems to me that the Dutch cabinet has a severity of demencia about their own, and favour being bribed in order to migrate to, for example the United States of North America, then to make certain a form of quo is maintained.

Question for these cabinet members would be> Do you REALLY think, that your sons and daughters would not be held to account, that is, if you had them? A clear question, without doubt one that they themselves would refuse to ask themselves.

I suppose most any is awaiting the book: The selling of Europe to the Middle East, by Petroleum Today.

What are those statistics, in reality? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.39.126.16 (talk) 21:17, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What on earth are you talking about. None of the sentences you just posted makes any sense at all.NeoRetro (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Islam in the Netherlands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070206001148/http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/~mriexin/euroislam.html to http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/~mriexin/euroislam.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:22, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Islam in the Netherlands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:19, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]