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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by EricKodjo (talk | contribs) at 21:28, 6 July 2007 (→‎Impact on New Orleans: Roads in and out of New Orleans). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Featured articleHurricane Katrina is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 29, 2006.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 29, 2006WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
June 5, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
June 23, 2006Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Template:WP1.0 Template:WPTCarchive

Wikibooks

Does anyone mind if I copy and paste certain parts of the Katrina related articles onto wikibooks. It would only be temporary though, and I'd start rewriting stuff some, or enough. Anyone can help if they want to. Jeez, all the Katrina articles together is practically long enough for a decent sized book. I wonder... íslenskur fellibylur #12 (samtal) 02:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better to transwiki it, though. However, does Wikibooks want it? Titoxd(?!?) 03:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm part of wikibooks, and I think it should be on there. So, doesn't that mean they (we) want it? Pluz, I think it should definetly be needed, as it's very important. íslenskur fellibylur #12 (samtal) 01:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe a separate site Katrina Wiki is in order, being such a dramatic topic? (Although I have no idea how to do such) CrazyC83 01:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
http://hurricanes.wikia.com never got off the ground, so it isn't that good of an idea. Again, I don't object to it being hosted there if Wikibooks wants it, but I still recommend a transwiki, for WP:GFDL purposes, since this page has about 13,000 revisions. Titoxd(?!?) 01:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

<sob, scream, wail> "Does anyone mind if I copy and paste..." - the GFDL is dead, dead I tell you! Transwiki works now. Please, anyone working at wikibooks who is reading this, please don't ever copy and paste. <deep calming breath> Sorry for screaming and wailing there, but there is a reason for all this page history, you know! :-) Carcharoth 04:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Import is a beautiful thing... Titoxd(?!?) 04:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Death toll inconsistencies

Hey, like to note that there are two seperate death toll numbers presented in the article; 1836 and 1833. Perhapes choosing the mor elikely and including a note on the unknown qualities would be a good idea.

We have the number that includes inland deaths (verified by the HPC but not the NHC), so they are conflicting. 1,836+ is the best number IMO, with a plus sign as it is possible that there were more that they still haven't confirmed links to Katrina. CrazyC83 02:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really like "+" or "≥" in the infobox, personally I prefer words ("at least"). – Chacor 03:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unclear why NHC does not include the inland deaths. I could always ask them. Thegreatdr 05:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
THe death toll is not and never wil be accurate. A lot of people were simply washed out to sea and no bodies will ever be found.nut-meg 17:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations

Outstanding article, congratulations on the featured article. StudyAndBeWise 06:04, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Updating and expanding reconstruction bits

I mentioned some things on the talk page a while ago (October 2006) and got no response. Have a look at the last three sections of the latest archive (Archive 7) for talk page stuff that never got dealt with. Does anyone here want to take on brushing up a featured article so that it maintains its high standards, instead of degrading over time and looking like it was written about intensively at the time but not maintained since? Said in the nicest possible way, of course. :-) Carcharoth 04:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, the above is a copy of what I wrote elsewhere. Some of it has already been dealt with (thanks Titoxd!). Can anyone copy out the link from the archive and talk here about what else can be done? Carcharoth 04:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here is that link and for completeness sake, the whole comment:
Any sensible way to add something about this? Carcharoth 04:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
300 pages... :| Was a summary report of the conference offered anywhere? Titoxd(?!?) 04:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Question

I Would like to ask about the music video "The Saints Are Coming" Of green day and U2. And wanted to know if the army did do such a mass operation of rescuing trapped people or is it just a computer made operation in the music video? thanks.

Alon

Not the Army, but the Coast Guard did something similar (but nowhere even close to what was shown in that video). That said, some people have complained that it was too little, too late, or too disorganized. See Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina. Titoxd(?!?) 05:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Modifying media coverage section

While I admire Geraldo Rivera, Shepard Smith and their efforts to be immersed in the coverage they're involved in, I think this section completely ignores the point that NBC News' Brian Williams was not only in the Superdome when Hurricane Katrina came on shore, but he was the only major news anchor that stayed on the scene for several days. NBC News was the first major news agency to announce that they were opening a bureau in New Orleans to cover the aftermath. It should be noted that it was a major thing for Williams to be in New Orleans for the storm and its aftermath, since he was the only one of the Big Three (NBC, CBS, ABC) to be on scene. The cable news networks involved in coverage isn't unexpected since they provide wall-to-wall coverage on everything, no matter how newsworthy or not (and yes, that's subjective). Plus, Brian Williams won several journalism awards for his coverage of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. Just FYI. I am happy to add and modify the article with information and details, but I don't want to step on any toes before I modify a featured article. In addition to modifying the small summary that is on this page, I think I will try to take a more in-depth look at the coverage in the wake of Katrina and modifying that article. Let's chat@!# :-P --Bsheppard 05:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Still Modifying media coverage section

I think we should edit this section and add something of the important "Idol Gives Back" charity program.

External Link - Survival of New Orleans Blog

During the katrina crisis, this blog was a source of hour-by-hour news updates from within New Orleans. The Chief Security Officer of directnic.com (domain name registrar) was holed up in a building protecting directnic.com servers. He ventured out many times for fuel or other supplies, and gave his firsthand accounts of what he saw until he was replaced by reinforcements on September 17th.

This is a blog, but I feel it's removal was done rather hastily, without considering its value. Many of the links from that day, such as the Katrina Intel Wiki, have gone dead in the years since. This reinforces the notion of the value of a firsthand account.

http://interdictor.livejournal.com/19282.html was the link posted. Using the "next" button you can see a progression as the situation worsens.

I realize there is the potential to see this as an attempted advertisement, however, companies are composed of people, and this company was one of many that had people there during the crisis. The unique ability to communicate via internet during the crisis came about BECAUSE of the internet-related nature of the company.

Perhaps this would be a more relevant entry point? http://interdictor.livejournal.com/2005/08/28/ or possibly http://www.mgno.com/2005/08/28/ 71.116.132.93 17:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't consider my removal as being "hasty". From the Links normally to be avoided section on the Wikipedia:External links page:
  • Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET.
  • Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority.
I won't argue if a consensus is reached that says it belongs on the page, but I believe discussion should be held here before it's added. --Onorem 18:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Those are external links in the current article, and they appear to be blog links. I could not verify that http://www.nola.com/ is even serving web pages, so I could be wrong about those links. Perhaps their server crashed or something.
I would argue that the anti-blog bias is antithetical to the idea of firsthand narratives. Perhaps the whole section should be removed? 71.116.132.93 07:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I had not noticed those links, and would have to say that it's my opinion that they should also be removed. I also don't know when they were added and whether or not any discussion was had regarding them. I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make regarding anti-blog bias. The idea of firsthand narratives is not an idea that is strived for on Wikipedia. No original research. Reliable sources. --Onorem 14:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So you are happy to keep new links from being added, but reluctant to remove links that obviously violate the same Wikipedia standards? If I add the link again will you remove it again? 71.103.98.40 20:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am reluctant to remove links that may have been included after some previous consensus had been reached. I had hoped that some sort of conversation from editors that had been working on this article would take place here. Since nobody else seems to want to express an opinion and I was unable to find any conversation about them in the archive pages, I'll remove the other blog links now. I removed your link when I was patrolling recent changes. I don't make a habit of inspecting every article I make a reversion on. --Onorem 20:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
While the blogs are a source of information, I don't feel the need of having them here. First of all, for how enormous the storm's effects were, I'm sure any useful info in the blogs would be in more official links. Second of all, blogs represent very small points of view at only one time period. Thirdly, how do you know how accurate they are? It is human nature to exaggerate things, after all. I agree that the blogs should be removed, and I wouldn't oppose removing the links on "Survivor and eyewitness accounts". This is an encyclopedia. While blogs and eyewitness accounts can be useful, their lack of credibility and relevance for the encyclopedia article cause me to lean toward removing them. If people want info on the blogs of Katrina, they could google it (Searching Hurricane Katrina Blog brings up nearly 3 million hits). It would be a different story if there was an article on, say, Personal accounts of Hurricane Katrina. Hurricanehink (talk) 21:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the action and explanation. 71.103.144.186 19:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hang on. I read that blog during the hurricane. It should be linked from the article. There should definitely be something in the article on blogs from people in the areas writing during and after the hurricane. Carcharoth 15:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I nominated Timeline of Hurricane Katrina for featured list status, if anyone is interested in voting, here is a direct link to the nomination. PhoenixTwo 17:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Climate Change question

Should this article acknowledge the linkage between Climate Change and the strength of Katrina which was postulated in various media at the time? e.g. Time. Note the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report recently indicated that an increase in hurricane intensity is "more likely than not" as a result of Climate Change. Ephebi 18:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, because regardless of the media reports, it is impossible to determine the effect climatic changes have on a single storm. Again, this info should be at Global warming and Tropical cyclone. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps my earlier request was poorly worded. I'm not suggesting that this article itself should conclude anything. (I don't know any climatologists who say one specific weather event is proof of anything.) But as the question was being asked at the time it would be misleading to not acknowledge the backdrop, or the existence of the question. Ephebi 23:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Titoxd, the question seems more relevant in the more general articles, perhaps in 2005 hurricane season? It doesn't make much sense to bring it up in an article for a single storm- since the question was whether the more active 2005 season as a whole was caused by climate change.138.237.165.140 16:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, because there's no way to know that global warming influenced a particular season either. There's things such as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation that make these things not-so clear; see Tropical cyclone#Global warming. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actuaries would diagree with you there - in addition to the larger insurance payouts, over the last few years they have reduced the size of the 'safe harbour' regions of the Caribbean and this will continue as storm intensity and reach expands. Ephebi 08:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The current debate, scientifically, is not whether there is global warming, and whether it makes hurricanes stronger; it is if whether it makes them stronger to a measurable amount, or whether the increase is within the forecasting margin of error. I won't speculate why the actuaries raise rates. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The 'current debate' is irrelevant to the original point. Nonetheless, the IPCC accounts for the oscillators, and much more besides, & in its 4th report concluded that there are probabalistically-significant effects. Regarding regions rendered uninsurable through climate change, there's already plenty of evidence that this is happening [1] Ephebi 14:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think some reference should be included because the link between climate change and Katrina comes up often in the public dialog, reguardless of whether on not one believes there is such a link or not. Celand Mark 06:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The same question can be drawn to every single hurricane in recent years. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Still not up-to-date

How can this be a featured article when it goes silent after about September 2005? Anyone reading the article would get the impression that New Orleans either was completely fixed, or was abandonded after September 2005. Which is it? What has happened in the year and half since? Hurricane Katrina disaster relief has {{Update}} on it - I don't want to have to put that on this article! Carcharoth 15:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Hurricane_Katrina#Economic_effects does mention stuff from 2006, so that is a start. But a real effort needs to be made to bring the article up to date for 2007 as new figures come out. They won't be reported widely in the news, so it will require lots of work... Carcharoth 15:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in many ways, NOLA is borked, so not much has changed... :) That said, the article needs some updating, but I only have so much time to spend here, and most of my time is currently being used to improve Tropical cyclone. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy Theories

Is there actually any citation (not even necessarily a common one) for the "most commonly cited culprit in these conspiracy theories is the UNESCO Biosphere program, in an attempt to "re-wild" the region." ? If this novel theory cannot be substantiated, should that sentence be there?

John Barry's Rising Tide has a comprehensive description of the intentional destruction of levees south of New Orleans (and south of the Lower 9th Ward, too) in response to the 1927 Mississippi River flood. The origin of "blow the levees" theories associated with subsequent hurricanes such as Betsy and Katrina can be traced back to the events of 1927 and the widespread press coverage, including photographs of the explosions. Repeated application of dynamite over a period of days was needed to successfully breach that levee.

One explanation of explosions heard by residents on the morning of Hurricane Katrina is that they heard the sudden and catastrophic failure of metal sheet piles, concrete wall sections, and other structural elements of the floodwalls as they yielded to the immense hydraulic pressure from the storm surge combined with erosion from over-topping. Such a release of potential energy over a short time period would be audible as a loud explosion. This theory is favored by engineers and technologists but rarely appears in conspiracy discussions.

NWS reports

These should be included in the article, if not done so already. Hurricanehink (talk) 17:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Extent of Flooding

It would be great if we had a square-mileage of the total area flooded. I think it would be a very powerful addition to the impact section. -- §HurricaneERIC§ archive 00:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HoppinHill

Dear Rattleman et al, What does "rv per warnings" mean? HoppinHill 17:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Chacor et al, I am attempting to add important information - complete with resources - to the introduction of Hurricane Katrina and you are reverting my additions. I want to add that "The design and construction of New Orleans' flood protection is, by congressional mandate, the sole responsibility of the US Army Corps of Engineers in the Flood Protection Act of 1965." You have reverted my edits three times in a 24 hour period which is a violation. My rationale: The flooding of New Orleans (unlike Mississippi) is considered by experts the worst engineering disaster in US history, not a natural disaster. Link to experts opinion: http://www.levees.org/research/sources/Newhouse%20A1.htm Furthermore, if the flooding of New Orleans is a manmade disaster, then there is a duty to educate the public on whose responsibility the flood protection belongs to. Trying nicely to resolve this. HoppinHill 17:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, learn the policy correctly. Three reverts isn't a violation. Four reverts, and using an IP at the same time so as not to have your account associated with the reverts (it's obvious the IP is you, you yourself have admitted that by saying I am reverting "your" additions) is a violation of TWO Wikipedia policies. You've been blocked for exactly this before in May. Your changes violate WP:NPOV. You have been warned multiple times. Only you are harping on the fact that it is federally-built. That is a POV and not welcome in the article. – Chacor 17:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Impact on New Orleans: Roads in and out of New Orleans

EricKodjo 21:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC) I edited the text under New Orleans changing it in important ways. Contrary to what was written, very few roads were impassable after the flood (I drove on some of them). Further, while the Crescent City connection suffered virtually no material damage, it was blocked by police on the west bank, a fact that has lead to civil right based legal actions. This material should be added (& could readily be sourced from the Times-Picayune). If someone doesn't get to it first I will eventually do this.[reply]

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