Talk:Okinawa Prefecture

I suggest changes in the history section I put them in and they were all reverted. I based my comments on a book by Hokama Shuzen the dean of Okinawa studies-- he was a professor at Hosei University. Then I found my additions were all reverted without comment.

Here are my suggestions for the history section

Five 18,000 year old human skeletons discovered in 1965 at Minatogawa in Gushigawa Village, Okinawa resemble the Liaojiang Man skeletons unearthed in Guangdong Province in southern China as well as the Jomon people of early Japan.

Okinawa lies along a chain of islands extending from Japan to south Asia which some scholars call Japonesia in order to highlight cultural influences that reached Okinawa from the south. For example, in ethnomusicology, musical scales similar to the Okinawan musical scale, long thought to be unique to Okinawa, such as the Perogu scale of Indonesia and the Gamaran music of Java and Bali have recently been found. Koizumi Fumio has reported finding the same scale in widely dispersed isolated areas in India, Sri Lanka, Burma, Nepal, Bhutan, Micronesia and Polynesia.

The most famous book on the relationship of Okinawa to the origins of Japanese culture is The Sea Road published in 1961 in which Yanagita Kunio. Yanagita, struck by how the Black Current brings plants and flotsam to Japanese shores from South Asian countries, proposed that the Yayoi culture rice culture, thought to be the root of Japanese culture, moved from southern China northwards through the Okinawan islands into the Japanese main islands. Yanagita, in his South Seas Notes published in 1925 after his first visit to Okinawa, wrote that many of the folk customs at the foundations of Japanese culture originated to the south of Japan. This book is the forerunner to his full-blown theory about the south asian origins of Japanese culture. Thus there is strong evidence of some important cultural influences from the south as well as the north. [1]

The islands that now make up Okinawa Prefecture were formerly not part of Japan, but part of an independent nation called the Ryūkyū Kingdom. The golden age of the Ryukyu Kingdom was the reign of King Shoshin (1477 to 1526). The most important events in the reign of King Shoshin were:

   1. Miyako and Yaejima islands come under Ryukyu Kingdom rule.
   2. The local lords (aji) were brought together at Shuri, and the social hierarchical system was established and harmonized with the
   political system.
   3. The indigenous religion focused around holy women (shinyo) was reorganized on a national basis.
   4. The frequency of tribute missions to Ming China increased from from once every two years to once a year.
   5. Great efforts were made to increase friendly relations with foreign countries. The strength of the Ryukyu Kingdom was to
   be increased by expanding trade with Malacca, Siam and other countries.
   6. Moreover the Buddhist religion was encouraged with the establishment of Buddhist temples, Shuri Castle and its environs were
   renovated, public works projects such as the building of roads and bridges were undertaken. Much income came through the entrepot :trade and so the King was able to both support the arts and reduce rents and taxes paid by the farmers. [2]

Okinawa Prefectures includes the main island of Okinawa and the Yaeyama and Miyako island groups. Okinawa's location in the East China Sea, and relatively close proximity to Japan, Korea, China and South East Asia allowed the Ryūkyū Kingdom to become a prosperous trading nation. The many castle ruins that dot the island date from this period. However, in 1609 the Japanese Satsuma clan, who controlled the region that is now Kagoshima Prefecture, invaded the Ryūkyū Kingdom. Following this invasion, the Ryūkyū Kingdom was forced to enter into a tribute-trade relationship with Satsuma in addition to continuing its voluntary and very profitable tribute-trade relationship with the Ming and then Qing Dynasty China. Satsuma maintained the pretense of Ryūkyūan sovereignty in order to access the China trade that had been severely restricted by this time. Though Satsuma maintained strong influence over the Ryūkyū Kingdom, the Ryūkyū Kingdom maintained a large degree of political independence. In 1879, following the Meiji Restoration, the Ryūkyū Kingdom was forcefully incorporated into Japan as Okinawa Prefecture. Japanese customs and personal names were imposed and Chinese cultural influences were suppressed. Although integrated into Japan, Okinawans often perceived their relationship to "mainland Japan" as an inferior one, much like the colonial status of Korea, which like Okinawa supplied drafted "comfort women" to the Japanese military during World War II.

Following the end of World War II and the Battle of Okinawa in 1945, for 27 years Okinawa was under United States administration. During this time the US military established numerous bases on Okinawa Honto and elsewhere.

On May 15, 1972, Japan resumed the exercise of its sovereignity over Okinawa, although to this day the United States maintains a large military presence there. See also Ryukyuan history.

Many Okinawans feel they are losing much of their traditions and culture due to the devastation of the Battle of Okinawa, which killed one-third of the civilian population, and increasing integration with the rest of Japan is expressed in a Yamano Kuchibaku's Ryukyuan poem The Island Bathed in Bullets. Yamano Kuchibaku wrote the poem after returning to his native village in postwar Okinawa after several decades.

   When I stepped onto the island
   and greeted them saying "gaiju-i"
   the islander answered "hai, o kagesama de" in Japanese!
   In my homesickness I started to wonder if I was really home
   "Uchinaguchi madein maru Ikusani sattarubasui" I said
   With a bitter laugh the islander replied in Japanese
   My, you speak good Okinawan.

[3]

The strong ambiguity in Okinawan feelings about "mainland" Japan is expressed in frequent controversies in the schools about the display of the Japanese flag and the playing of the Japanese national anthem.

--- The english translation from the Japanese poem is my own.

David Cowhig

---

According to Dictionary.com, "Okinawa" means Okinawa islands (沖縄諸島) or Okinawa main island (沖縄本島). According to Daijirin Dictionary, "沖縄(Okinawa)" means 沖縄県 (Okinawa prefecture) or 沖縄市 (Okinawa city). So some sort of disambiguation could be done. In any case, there should be at least a link from Okinawa (city) to Okinawa prefecture, if not a redirect. The Japanese Wikipedia site redirects you from 沖縄(Okinawa) to 沖縄県(Okinawa prefecture), by the way. Okinawa city isn't even the biggest city (Naha) on the island (Okinawa main island) anyway.

An aside: US dictionaries' definition of Ryukyu islands is different from the Japanese dictionaries' definition of Ryûkyû shotô. Tongpoo 06:38, 13 Oct 2003 (UTC)

---

I (Infrogmation) summerized some and removed more of the following anonamous addition to the article. It contains some interesting information, but unfortunately talks in a personal voice far from NPOV.

On October 1987, Mr. Syoichi Chibana burned the Japanese flag while it was being raised for the Kaiho National Athletic meet in Yomitan, Okinawa. This incident not only shocked Okinawans, but also Japanese. Why did Mr. Chibana do this? It is the same reason that Okinawans refuse to raise the Japanese flag at official events, which is related to Japan's emperor, the Japanese Imperial Military, and the World War II Battle of Okinawa.

Until the end of World War II, Japan taught its people their emperor was a god, and the flag was one of the emperor's embodiments. The Japanese Imperial Military took advantage of these teachings, and "Umi Yukaba," the Japanese Navy's anthem, is a good example of how they did it. "Listen" to the words:

Across the sea, corpses in the water; Across the mountain, corpses in the field. I shall die only for the emperor, I shall never look back.

This song shows us the emperor's influence on the Japanese people in those days. The relationship between the Showa Emperor (Emperor Hirohito) and the Japanese Imperial Military was very close.

Okinawa was the only place where there was a land battle in Japan during WW ll, and it was the bloodiest battle of the Pacific War. In addition to the Japanese military people who died fighting in the Battle of Okinawa, more than one third of the civilian population, 100,000 people, died. The Okinawa victims were not only killed by bombs and shells, but also by the Japanese military. There were three incidents where the Japanese military killed Okinawans in the name of the emperor.

They butchered Okinawans. They sacrificed people to malaria on Yaeyama Island. They forced school girls to join a group known as the Princess Lilies and go to the battle front as nurses. The group suicide in the Kerama Islands. The butchering of Okinawans.

The Japanese military butchered Okinawans for many reasons. One of them was for non combatants who disturbed the Japanese military in their hiding places. During the battle, people hid in the many caves on Okinawa. At first, there were only civilians, but the soldiers also took refuge in the caves after the fighting became intense. During the many fierce battles, the babies in the caves started crying. Their mothers tried to stop the crying, but the soldiers, being afraid of being found by the enemy, murdered the babies at once. This brutality was not unusual to the Okinawans. They were also killed over small amounts of food. "At midnight, soldiers would wake up Okinawans and take them to the beach. Then they chose Okinawans at random and threw hand grenades at them. (Moriguchi, 1992)" Dead people do not compete for limited food supplies.

The suspicion of being a spy was another reason why Okinawans were killed. We found classified World War II Japanese military documents describing punishment for Okinawans who didn't speak Japanese. They were declared spies, and killed for speaking their own language. Additionally, Japanese soldiers shot Okinawans who wanted to surrender to Allied Forces appealing to them to quit fighting. The Japanese military commanders were afraid of their subordinates losing their fighting spirit while watching civilians surrender. So they killed innocent people to prevent their troops from losing morale.

The sacrifice of people on Yaeyama Island to malaria.

During March 1945, there was an intense battle on Yaeyama Island. The Japanese military forced people to evacuate from their towns to the mountains even though malaria was prevalent there. Okinawans, without food and medicine, lost 54% of the island's population to starvation and disease. After WW II, the government told us the Japanese military didn't know malaria was prevalent on Yaeyama Island, however we have found some evidence they knew about it before evacuating the Okinawans to the mountains. The bereaved families of the malaria victims filed a law suit against the government for its responsibility.

The tragedy of the Princess Lilies.

The Princess Lilies was an organization made up of girl students, 15 to 16 years old, who participated in the battle as nurses. There were seven girl's high schools in Okinawa at the time of WW II. The Princess Lilies were organized at two of them, and a total of 297 students and teachers joined the group and eventually served the Army as nurses. Two hundred and eleven died. Most of the girls were put into caves, which served as temporary clinics, and took care of injured soldiers. There was no medicine, food or water. Many of the young girls died while trying to get water for the wounded soldiers. The Japanese military also told these girls that if they were taken prisoner the enemy would rape and then kill them, and then gave the girls hand grenades to commit suicide with before being taken prisoner. One of the Princess Lilies explains this by saying, "We had a strict imperial education, so being taken prisoner was the same a being a traitor. We were taught to prefer suicide to becoming a captive. (Moriguchi, 1992)" Many students died saying "Tenno Banzai." which means "Long live the Emperor."

Why did these girls participate in the battle? The board of education, made up entirely of mainland Japanese, required their participation. Teachers opposed to the board of education, insisting the students be evacuated to somewhere safe, were accused of being traitors. Yet the cowardly mainland Japanese on the Board of Education, who required their young girl students to participate in the battle, didn't participate themselves.

The group suicide in the Kerama Islands.

The allied forces attacked the Kerama Islands 15 times, killing 31 Japanese soldiers, taking 121 soldiers and 1,195 civilian prisoners. But these figures didn't include the 700 civilians who committed suicide, because of the mistakes in Japanese imperial military's strategy. The Japanese imperial military only planned for a naval battle at Kerama, not for the landing of traps. They also assumed the enemy would attack Okinawa first, so there were not enough soldiers and facilities on Kerama to protect the islands. The headquarters of the Japanese imperial military in Shuri, Okinawa, ignored the serious situation on Kerama. After WW II Col. Yahama, who was the chief of Staff on Okinawa, said, "We knew it was 50% probable the Kerama Islands would be attacked by land forces, but we took a gamble there would only be a navel battle.(Ota, 1977)"

The battle for the Kerama was getting intense and the people couldn't evacuate to anywhere on those small islands. Thus, they obeyed their cultural teachings to commit suicide rather than be taken prisoner. The Japanese imperial military gave them the hand grenades used to kill themselves for "the soldier; the emperor; Japan." "On March, 28, 1945, soldiers of the Allied Forces were bivouacked on Tokashiki island, and they heard several explosions at night. Later, they found 150 dead Okinawans. One man bound himself his two children and both pearents with a sash, so they could all die together.(Ota, 1977)" This was only one of the incidents which eventually took 700 civilians lives in the Kerama Islands.

Why were so many Okinawans killed by the enemy, by the Japanese military, and by their own hands? The Japanese military educated imperialism to the Japanese people and used the flag as one of the symbols of the emperor. Japanese soldiers butchered Okinawans in the name of the emperor, forcing them to evacuate into mountains infected with malaria, compelling young girls to participate in the battle, and driving the 700 Kerama Islanders to commit suicide.

The Japanese flag reminds Okinawans about Japanese imperialism. Requiring Okinawans to raise the flag at official events makes Okinawans anxious. When the government makes them follow orders, it reminds Okinawans of the Japanese Imperial Military and the military's atrocities.

As an Okinawan, I hope we have learned from history and never have to suffer these misfortunes ever again.

(Untitled)

How come there's nothing on American military bases on Okinawa and the controversy surrounding them? I'm thinking for example of the cases of Okinawan girls raped by US militaries stationed at Okinawa. I don't know much about this so I can't contribute anything but I'm really interested in this area.

--(unsigned 21:53, 5 May 2005 194.47.220.223)

Redirect of "Okinawa"

It seems to me that the article Okinawa should not redirect here, but should either redirect to Okinawa Island or else the current Okinawa Island should be moved to Okinawa. In English, if one refers just to "Okinawa," one generally means the island, and not the prefecture. john k 18:04, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

In my experience, when people say "Okinawa" they mean something nebulous. Not necessarily the island and not necessarily the prefecture. Seldom but occasionally the city. Since the usual Wikipedia solution is to have a disambiguation page with a list of the things that people want, I suggest that. Especially since "Okinawa" is the name of those three distinct entities. Additionally, the disambiguation page could accommodate links to other things with "Okinawa" in the name, even if they're not commonly referred to by the single word ("Music of Okinawa," "Religion of Okinawa" etc.). That way, people with an interest in Okinawa (in the vague sense) or things Okinawan could get to the article they want in a hurry. Some other Wikipedias have "portals" --- have you seen the French Portal for Japan? This Okinawa redirect page would be a portal in miniature (or microminiature). Fg2 21:00, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

(Untitled)

How come Ryukyus are a blend between Chinese and Filipinos? This is a blended ignorance. Maybe the only thing they have in common with the Filipinos is that they still tolerate the US Army.

The Japanese from the main land Japan are as well mixed. There were many Chinese and Korean invations in the past. It is known that, as well the culture as the ethnical characteristics of main land are blends of many other cultures.

Some say that tea, silk and rice was known in Okinawa much earlier than in main land Japan. [This should be though confirmed]

--(unsigned 18 November 2005 80.135.51.106)

Problem with the map

I think the map is useless as Okinawa is actually not displayed... it's made of small islands below the main ones, but only them main ones are displayed.

Yes, I agree. We need a map that shows Okinawas position relative to the rest of Japan, and shows all the islands. --Apoc2400 09:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well Ninja neko 08:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Diet & longevity

It would be interesting to have more information on the diet, since this seems to be relevant to their longevity. Climate and nature and Diet and lifestyle both mention this - but it would be good to have a source which describes exactly what they eat. http://www.okicent.org/ is referenced, and gives some idea, but is vague. --Singkong2005 02:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Culture and Language

I have deleted the section that contends that Okinawan culture is closer to Fillipino and Chinese culture than it is to Japanese culture. Although this may have been true before the Satsuma invasion, it is not true now. A few hundred years of Japanese cultural influence have made it's mark. If anyone has any sources that show otherwise, I'd love to see them.

People on Okinawa have their own language/dialect, which is very interesting. They use only 3 vowels. There should definitely be a paragraph about that on the page. --141.157.89.171 16:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Prefecture symbol

I was thinking yall could use Image:Flag of Okinawa, Japan.svg, which I created by hand. I am going to fine tune it later, once I find an official construction sheet. Enjoy. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Added the US military controversy section

Hello. I moved some of the information regarding the US military controversy and created a separate section. This issue is probably the biggest source of controversy in Okinawa today and deserves its own section. Thanks.Noodle boy 00:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if it belongs in the article on Okinawa Island instead. Although controversy extends to other islands, it is overwhelmingly part of the island rather than the whole prefecture. Fg2 00:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Okinawa Island is the largest island and can be seen as the cultural center of the whole prefecture. I think it is fitting since this is an issue that has generated a lot of debate within Okinawa as well as internationally. Thanks for the feedback! Noodle boy 00:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the reference to the race of the soldiers - it seems this has had no relevance in the controversy, and would not likely have been mentioned if they had been Caucasian.

Yes, good call. However, I was not the person who wrote that.Noodle boy 01:30, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

There is still an element of racism in the controversy, a double-standard that demands utter perfection from American servicemen. One bad apple seems to produce racist rage against all Americans. It belongs in a second article that is more neutral about the controversy -- which may be little more than an excuse to protest the physical size of US military bases. Therefore, I've given the article a POV tag.68.5.64.178 14:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The presentation, emphasis and phraseology

Overall I am in favour of the content of this Wiki entry, however the phraseology needs revision; I feel that at times it puts emphasis on the "inherent independence" rather than on the historical context of Okinawa's placement as a part of Japan. Academically, that is the most neutral, default frame of reference as it stands today, until the time Okinawa becomes a separate country.

Take for instance the first line "The islands that now make up Okinawa Prefecture were formerly not part of Japan". That is an ambiguous line particularly given the time frame, leading potentially to a literal obfuscation to the readers. One could say United Kingdom was formally a part of Roman Empire. Or one could say the United States was formally a part of Native Indians. Those statements are both true, however their emphasis is skewed given today's context. If a different emphasis must be made (especially when it is opinionated), it should come under a sub-section (as opposed to it being the main thrust of the Wiki entry). Various spins may then be presented in a fair manner as a "controversy" under various sections, to provide various different angles on the subject. That is the most rational way forward.

At any rate, the main angle of this article should be more neutral accordingly to the international recognition as it stands today.

I suggest revising all such phraseology leading to obfuscation or ambiguation. This is easily done without altering the facts presented. It is a question of presentation, and as it stands it comes across inappropriately manipulated, though it is probably through passion than ill-intention. Jgrey 17:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I must disagree with you. The line "The islands that now make up Okinawa Prefecture were formerly not part of Japan" appears in the History section, which makes sense. Begin with the beginning. Saying that "the United States was formally a part of Native Indians" in the intro of the US history section would not be "skewed given today's context". Mackan 14:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I understand. Also admittedly this is as a fairly trivial observation on my part, albeit a subtle one. My point (the 'skew' may be a little misleading, I apologize) was a question of balance of emphasis and undertone rather than the content itself. Instead of making this a point of contention at this point in time, however, I would prefer to see how this article develops alongside others' comments. For now, I will give way. I shall revisit this particular point should the balance of emphasis become notable. Jgrey 17:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

New governor

Hirokazu Nakaima. http://asia.news.yahoo.com/061220/kyodo/d8m4fekg0.html

Thanks for updating that! Fg2 00:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

SOFA

moved from article to talk page
Paragraph three is not accurate. The SOFA agreement did not and does not protect US servicemen from prosecution. It simply provideds for US constitutional rights not guarenteed under Japanese law; such as the right to an attorney, bail, etc. The SOFA also allows US servicemen accused of crimes under Japanese jurisdiction to be held in US military detention until the Japanese prosecutor files proper charges, which is what happened in 1995 and in every other criminal case under Japanese jurisdiction. The SOFA is not a "get out of jail free card" for US servicement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.27.60.94 (talk • contribs)

"In pop culture" section

I removed the "In pop culture" section because it's a long, pointless list of people from Okinawa that doesn't actually deepen the reader's understanding of the prefecture or what it's like. This edit was reverted.

I can appreciate that my edit was heavy-handed, but I disagree with the reverter's comment that the content is worthwhile. While the reader interested in Gackt may be fascinated to discover that he's from Okinawa, it really doesn't say anything about Okinawa to state that Gackt was born there. In other words, I think that the items in the "pop culture" section belong in those articles, not in the Okinawa article.

See also: WPJ discussion, WP:MOS discussion, old discussion

I think the only thing the current pop culture section has to say is that "many musicians come from Okinawa". This could be said more succinctly elsewhere in the article. -Amake 06:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree with your edit. -- Mackan ^{talk | c} 13:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

As the editor who did the revert, I have to say that I both agree and disagree. That section should probably be cut down, and perhaps re-named. It's not important to have every singer and cartoon that hails from or mentions Okinawa to be in the list, but I do think it's relevant to have some of the more famous examples (such as Gackt) listed in the article. It was the removal of the whole list that I objected to.

The pop-culture section in this article is used differently than in other articles; it should be limited to "such fictional book is set in Okinawa" rather than the trivia list it has become. A famous person/pop culture list could instead have a few important items then a link to a new article. --健次(derumi)^talk 15:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree entirely. Even "x is set in Okinawa" is not helpful or informative in an article about Okinawa, unless that x is particularly notable. None of the items currently listed are notable.

I'm going to delete the section again since there are many more users in agreement per the discussions I listed above. If you would like some of the items to stay, please pick only notable items, or rewrite the section into something actually worthwhile. -Amake 13:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

No problems there. The consensus is clearly for removing the section for now. If I (or someone else) has time to piece through that list and make something relevant out of it, it's still available in the history. --健次(derumi)^talk 17:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Another thought would be to link to Category:People_from_Okinawa_Prefecture in the See Also section. I attempted to do so, but I need to look up how to link to a category article first. :( --健次(derumi)^talk 17:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. --健次(derumi)^talk 17:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC)