Talk:Fall Out Boy

Template:Maintained

Genre

How do we know if Fall Out Boy's emocore? Do you have any proof?--989 RVD 02:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

http://www.isound.com/fall_out_boy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/readingandleeds06/lineupandartists/fall_out_boy/

http://www.rockdetector.com/artist,53816.sm

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/falloutboy/albums/album/294415/review/6210973/a_santa_cause_its_a_punk_rock_christmas

So say they. --LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 03:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy is in no way emocore. That is a ridiculous statement. Fall Out Boy shows no sign of any type of emo influence. How they would fit into the genre of emocore is beyond me. Emocore was like Rites of Spring and other Emotive Hardcore Punk bands. Fall Out Boy doesn't even seem to be influenced by Post-Emo Indie Rock. That should be removed. Spreading misinformation is not the job of an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.75.131 (talk • contribs)

Just because fall out boy claims they are emo it doesn't mean they are.wtf

They're not emo, but I think they use elements of it in their music.

Its a proven fact that if you are emo, you will always deny it. Besides, they aren't emo, and only one of their songs is even close to emo. That song is 7 Minutes in Heaven, and the only reason that it is almost close to emo is because its talking about Pete trying to kill himself, but it still is the only thing about the band itself that is even close to emo. BTW, they're too awesome to be emoMUSiC CHiC

You have proof that if you really are "emo" that you will always deny it? 76.2.116.135 02:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I've heard two FOB songs (admittedly... only 2) and this description confounds me. Can somebody please explain this to me. I mean.. they sound like Panic at the Disco because they helped out Panic!, NOBODY KNEW ABOUT THEM UNTIL fob WENT ON TOUR WITH THEM AND TOLD EVERYONE ABOUT THE RADICAL NEW BAND..--Dr who1975 18:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Pop-rock would be more appropriate. Manupod 19:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes... so does anybody object to me removing or changing it?--Dr who1975 19:49, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

First time I hear them i thought- pop-punk.They're pop-punk but mixed with soft core emo. Pop-emo would be appropriate (that last was a joke =] ) Xr 1 21:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

When I think of pop punk.. I think of Green Day and Blink 182... fast drum beats and power chords... I'd call FOB emo before pop punk but apparently that's controversial as well (and since I don't apparently know enough about emo I'd probably stay away from that altogether). This band is such a hybrid... I think altenrative rock and rock pop are better descriptions.--Dr who1975 21:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Alternative and Pop-rock are a much closer description of their sound. We should stray away from using the term "emo" with so-called "third wave emo" because it is very controversial and generally untrue to what the genre is. There are much better ways to describe bands like P!ATD and FOB, since they don't fit into the criteria of emo (much less emocore). They are loosely by bands bands that could be debated as emo/post-emo indie (such as the Get-up Kids) but still don't fit the sound of the genre. Manupod 01:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Look here [1] Fall Out Boy-genres: Punk-Pop, Emo. Look in their MySpace [2] Genre: Pop-punk Just Keep like it is now. Xr 1 06:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

theyre more of punk/pop-rock, depending on the song.

Fall Out Boy just isn't emo in anyway. To say they are emocore is just ridiculous. Pop-punk maybe, but its a stretch. And just because a site says they are emo doesn't mean they are right. If you ask just about anyone who knows emo, and knows the origin of emo they will tell you Fall Out Boy is not even close. Mayve we should add "Disputed Sub Genres" like My Chem. Manupod 11:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Manupod, what is Emo anyway. Tell me in detail why Fall Out Boy is not Emo. I always thought Emo was emotional music that sounds like Morrisey or the Smiths (in which case Fall Out Boy definetly wouldn't measure up). To me, Fall Out Boy sounds just like Panic at the Disco which is apparently an Emocore band. Apparently The Faint, one of my favorite bands, is Emo to some people but I don't understand why.

If the FOB proclaims themselves to be Emo I'd be willing to give them a little leeway there. Obviously if someone like Garth Brooks proclaimed himself to be Emo I'd fight it. But if a band like Fall Out Boy say's they're Emo then I think they're music is close enough to whatever Emo is supposed to be that they should have it listed at least as a disputed genre. The same would be true if they declared themselves Pop Punk(which they have not.. in fact, I didn;t see anything about Emo or Pop Punk on that myspace page), in such a case, I'd still disagree with the Pop Punk tag but I'd be willing to give a little leeway. Sounds like I need to check out the My Chemical Romance page later today.--Dr who1975 14:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, Emo stands for Emotive/Emotional Hardcore. It started as a subgenre of Hardcore Punk in the mid 80's in Washington DC. Ian MacKaye (of Minor Threat/Embrace/Fugazi) is said to have coined the term to describe The Band Rites of Spring. Emo bands in the 80's had loud, distorted guitars and generally screamed vocals accompanied by emotional, less rebellious lyrics. This is what has become known as Emocore. Some Emocore bands are Rites of Spring, Gray Matter, Moss Icon. Calling Fall Out Boy Emocore is simply ridiculous because Emocore had a much heavier sound that what people would call punk (The Sex Pistols for example). You would obviously not call FOB punk. Example: [3]

After the period of prominent Emocore bands came the so-called "Second Wave" of Emo, which is generally called Post-Emo Indie Rock. Post-Emo Indie was influenced by Emocore bands, but had a much more melodic sound. Bands under that genre would be Sunny Day Real Estate, Mineral, Jawbreaker (borderline emocore), Braid, Texas is the Reason, and The Appleseed Cast. These bands are much softer and contain less screaming. Many people argue that even they are true emo. Even so, most Post-Emo Indie bands contain a more punk influenced sound than what you may call Pop-Punk.

FOB was influenced by bands such as The Get-Up Kids, Jimmy Eat World, and Dashboard Confessional, which have Post-Emo Indie influence, but are generally considered indie/pop-rock. Fall Out Boy have a small amount of Post-Emo influence, but simply do not fit the criteria of what Emo music is. If you do not think they fit the criteria of pop-punk then they can not even come close to emocore. Panic! at the Disco and The Faint are not emo either. Panic! at the Disco is strictly Alternative/Pop-Rock and show no punk or emo influence. The Faint are Indie Rock. Manupod 19:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Because you're blind =]in their myspace page under their logo and above their picture is written Pop-Punk. And I'm not saying they truly are emo, but some amount of influence...

They have some influence, but they don't qualify as Emo (much less emocore). Green Day and Blink 182 have punk influence, but that doesn't make them punk. Led Zeppelin has a lot of blues influence, but that doesn't makes them a blues band. Manupod 19:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well I meant the same thing. And generally they are pop-punk!

They are basically just pop-rock. That is why emo should be taken out of the genre listing. Manupod 19:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Let me preface what I'm about to write with I don't care if they are Emo , Emocore, Elmo from Sesame street or not, you're arguing with the wrong guy about that. I double checked the my space page... the "pop punk" is in dark font in front of a dark backround, are they trying to hide the words? I still don't agree that they are pop punk but I guess I'll need to find an expert citation arguing for that if I'm to at least put it under disputed genres.--Dr who1975 03:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I did some more reasearch... the "pop punk" is there for search purposes and it means "Pop and Punk" not "Pop Punk" as oultined by FOB themselves in this interview. The words are in a tiny, dark font against a dark backround (you'd have to have super vision to see it). I'll be removing the pop punk shortly from this page.--Dr who1975 03:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm apparently much better at doing research than you, I did you a favor and found this interview where FOB definitevly says they are not EMO. I'm so blind, I simply typed "Fall Out Boy" "not emo" into google and it came up. You're welcome.--Dr who1975 03:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I wanna say that they are not Punk.Listen to some Punk and you'll see they're not punk.And they're not Pop-they can't be that.So the most appropriate seems to be pop-punk.May be they don't like this category because they have other influences too and don't sound like other pop-punk bands.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Xr 1 (talk • contribs)

They are most definetly Pop... pop is any band that uses some derivation of the verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse structure so it's pretty all encompassing. They have punk elements... but that does not make them punk. Instead of listing punk as a genre... you should work it into the article itself.--Dr who1975 15:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

According to FOB, they are pop and punk but not pop punk. WTF? Pop punk is "a fusion genre that combines elements of punk rock with pop music, to varying degrees." --LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 15:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, to varying degrees, however FOB's music does not have the degree/elements of punk tht are typical for pop punk, for instance their songs do not have a punky beat like most Green Day, Blink 182, and Offspring songs have. Please read this interview where FOB themselves proclaim that they are not pop punk. You may have also noticed I have cited the article in the Musical Style section. If you think about it, they also have elements of hardcore music and of punk and their lyrics are very emotional, but that doesn't make them Emo either now does it. If FOB is pop punk then they must also by Emo and Emocore since they have those elements too.--Dr who1975 17:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh...Thnks Fr Th Mmrs is also written with a dark font in the dark background.May be they are trying to hide the name of their new single?... Xr 1 19:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

What's the name of the new single?--Dr who1975 20:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I said it. 'Thnks Fr Th Mmrs'. It's also in the article.Xr 1 20:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out boy call their music pop/punk it says on their myspace. I agree with them. The take overs the break overs video is coming out soon!

"(they are in a tiny, dark font against a dark backround)" I can't believe this is actually in the article. Pointing this out is misleading, as if you're trying to say that it's purposefully that way in order to attempt to hide it. They've been asked to definitively state what genre they feel they are in and they--like so many other bands--dance, dance around it. "Pop and punk, but not pop punk". Pop punk is a fusion of pop and punk. To be kinda pop and kinda punk is to be pop punk. It's the entire point of the creation of the genre. But they don't want to be labeled, so they pretend to be their own unique hybrid of pop punk that goes by some other name, but they aren't revealing it. Will all of that fit into the info box? Probably not. Regardless, the Musical Style section needs to be removed until it can be fully expanded. Which, as can be noted in my rant above, will probably not be anytime soon. Regards, LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 16:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've been researching to try to reslove this once and for all. Here are my results (emphasis mine)...

This is from Walmart.com:

"Career Overview

The mercurial term "emo" has meant many different things since its first appearance in the mid-1980s hardcore punk underground. By the mid 2000s, the term was best exemplified by the band Fall Out Boy. Playing an accessible brand of melodic rock marked by clever, classically angsty lyrics and the blistering energy of punk's harsher sub-genres, Fall Out Boy rocketed to near TRL superstardom following the release of 2005's From Under the Cork Tree.

Biography

Originating from Chicago, Illinois, USA, emocore band Fall Out Boy began to take shape at the turn of the new millennium. Formed by [current members], all the members had played with different emo and metal-core units based around Chicago's insular underground hardcore scene. [...] A demo CD emerged in 2001 [...] The short and snappy Fall Out Boy's Evening Out With Your Girlfriend [...] served notice of the quartet's fast developing mastery of the pop punk style and their witty, self-referential lyrics. Released only a few months later, the quartet's [...] Take This To Your Grave, was completed [...] The album's strong critical reception allied to support from the band's powerful internet-based fanbase, established Fall Out Boy's reputation at the forefront of the alternative rock scene. [...]"

MTV.com reads:

"[...] As Fall Out Boy, the quartet used the unbridled intensity of hardcore as a foundation for melody-drenched pop-punk with a heavy debt to the emo scene. [...]"

AOL Music states "Musical Styles: Emo, Punk-Pop, Indie Rock".

A Rolling Stone article reads:

"A year ago, Wentz and his band -- an emo-ish pop-punk quartet from the wealthy suburbs of Chicago that took its name from the sidekick to Bart Simpson's favorite superhero, Radioactive Man -- were an indie act known only to skateboarding Warped Tour kids."

Many other pages say the same thing. Neither their label nor their band page make note of genre (that I can find). Every reliable--and semi-reliable--source I can find mentions the same genres.

Regards LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 18:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

In case you didn't read this response to your comment above before starting this new thread: FOB's music does not have the degree/elements of punk tht are typical for pop punk, for instance their songs do not have a punky beat like most Green Day, Blink 182, and Offspring songs have. Please read this interview where FOB themselves proclaim that they are not pop punk. You may have also noticed I have cited the article in the Musical Style section. If you think about it, they also have elements of hardcore music and of punk and their lyrics are very emotional, but that doesn't make them Emo either now does it. If FOB is pop punk then they must also by Emo and Emocore since they have those elements too.--Dr who1975 20:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

If you give me a day or two to think about what's best to put there... I will clean up this section along the lines of your suggestions. If you want to take a crack at it before I get to it then I'm sure we can come to an understanding. As for the tiny, dark font, Being there for search puposes is a valid rational for it being hidden.... it doesn't imply any sort of disingeniune motive. If you feel the article is too POV then we can clean it up a bit, I do think all the basic information I've added is relevant. As for the overall Pop Punk /Emo thing... if Fall Out Boy says they aren't pop punk then surely that trumps MTV's assesment at least to some degree. Considering the information can be made available under Musical Style - through Disputed Subgenres, I think that is where the information should reside. I still need to check your citations, but I want to say that it's difficult to cite some sites such as Wal Mart because they are trying to sell things at the retail level becuase direct sales pages are many times not allowed on wikipedia (plus, being direct retail also colors their description of the work as they are purposely, deceptively trying to reach a wider audience).--Dr who1975 20:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see that previous reply. And yea, about Wal-Mart, in my original edit I'd put that I wasn't sure how reliable it would be considered, but then I found the additional sites. I totally understand your point, but mine is that while the band says they aren't Emo, Emocore or Pop-punk, they don't say what they are. Peter says their pop and their punk but they're not pop-punk. That makes no sense. That's like saying I'm a little red and a little white but I'm not pink. Red and white makes pink. Mixing pop and punk makes pop-punk. I don't know. It's a pain in the ass. It's only a genre, but this is an encyclopedic article, so it needs to be as accurate as possible. Everyone claims the same genres, for the most part, but the band denies them all without clarification. So what do we put? Popish punk rock with emo influence? I don't think the line is that wide. _{That's sarcasm, for anyone who missed it... no "are you crazy?" replies.} --LaraLove^T/_C 03:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

"Peter says their pop and their punk but they're not pop-punk. That makes no sense." - Yeah!That's really stupid.Combining elements of pop and punk is pop-punk and they are doing that. "Popish punk rock with emo influence?" That's the thing =] Xr 1 07:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I put back the Alternative Rock but left the pop rock off. I don;t think there was any dispute about the Alternative Rock (I also don't see why anyone would have a problem with pop rock but since I was the guy who put it there I'll just let that go).--Dr who1975 22:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

They are definitely some sort of rock, but I think calling them emo rock is going just a little too far. If they really were an emo rock band then there would be more than one song about suicide, and Pete and Patrick would be screaming in almost every song. FOBaholic 02:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that the musical style section should be omitted for now, because it doesn't really have anything that is necessary. Bring it back when this is all settled, or keep it out if it is found not to be needed. --Lostmeatthelost 21:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out boy call their music pop/punk it says on their myspace. I agree with them. The take overs the break overs video is coming out soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.242.99 (talk) 16:18, June 20, 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Fall_Out_Boy#Pop_Punk?!?!?!. LaraLove^T/_C 04:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pete Wentz must be trying to trick himself. FOB falls into no other category but pop-punk. fast drums, power chords, even their CD's structures are the definition of pop-punk. No matter how the term EMO began, in modern times it means music in which the musicians complain about girls breaking up with them, or starting relationships with girls. Fall Out Boy is a emo punk band. Alternative music is music that dosen't really fit into any other genre, fall out boys music does fit into a genre. they sound very much like all other bands in their genre, emo pop punk.

No...no..... Emo is a specific genre, and Fallout Boy are nowhere near that genre... The Used and MCR COULD be described as emo....but Fallout Boy? No way... There's no hardcore emotion, no wailing voice...and they don't take themselves seriously enough to be emo...

I think they nailed the whiny lyrics, though.Codackussell 02:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

But, according to You Don't Know Emo, which i believe has the CLOSEST definition to the correct meaning of emo, Fall Out Boy do not fall under the category of emo. The closest thing i can say is read this page, and examine it for yourselves. Emo music, in any form, is all UNDERGROUND and alot of it is very abrasive and really not a marketable variant of punk, as per Fall Out Boy, who have alot of mainstream success, and write really catchy pop songs. Given this information, any reasonable person could clearly and easily deduce that Fall Out Boy and any relevant bands on MTV or FUSE or whichever station plays alot of alternative rock, are NOT emo. They may have some small characteristics of the original genre in their music (which does NOT mean "whiny" vocals or lyrics), but that is just that, a characteristic. The overwhelming presence in their music is pure POP PUNK.

Here is a link to the website. http://www.youdontknowemo.tk/

Thank you. 76.2.116.135 01:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I dispute the default position that seems to be given to Alternative rock. Alternative rock is a term for bands that are not as forumlaic as Fall Out Boy. Fall Out Boy does not compare in breadth to the 90s alternative bands like Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana, and especially not to R.E.M. Just out of simplicity, proof exists of their pop element in their position as commericial pitchmen in Circuit City ads. A band that would attract a traditional alternative audience could not/would not ever take part in something like that. The word alternative can only be used on a band that is not so overly commercialized. The music industry may want to make the word generic, but the music industry's brand positioning should not be what a Wikipedia page should ultimately give in to. The word Rock in itself is a generic term that would be appropriate. But frankly, alternative rock is not a general term, and even if it was, Fall Out Boy does not have the musical elements / drive to invent that would be make it correct. SpacePope 07:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have added citation needed marks to their references as an alternative rock band, because it is not correct to fall back on that term as this argument over Pop punk and emo continues. Looking at the page for alternative rock, it's easy to see that none of the genres in dispute here fall under it. The sub-genres do fall under Punk rock. It would be more appropriate to replace Alternative rock with that until this dispute is settled. Again, Alternative rock should not be used like a generic term on Wikipedia, it does have a specific meaning as highlighted on its Wiki page. SpacePope 20:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, I'd like to reiterate that if indeed the compromise reached that was mentioned in the warning box was just to place Alternative rock, I take great exception to that. There is no legitimate source that will confirm Fall Out Boy as being Alternative Rock. Alternative is being used here to generalize, yet it's generalization is incorrect. Alternative rock ---> grunge as Punk rock -----> pop punk. The fact is there is no way that Fall Out Boy is alternative under the Wikipedia definition. The types of music that certain people believe them to be are all found as sub-genres of Punk rock, not Alternative rock. This is a blatant inaccuracy that needs to be corrected. SpacePope 00:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

-- Acid Punk? Alternative? Give me a break. Listen to their music. Look at their main audience. Pop-Rock or Pop-Punk is a much more accurate.211.30.52.219 02:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Like Pete Wentz said, "We don't write songs to fit in a category, we justs write Fall out boy songs," If they are emo or whatever we don't have to know, it's their business and who cares about if they are emo, why can't you just listen to their music? --Crazymcrfan 18:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)crazymcrfan

What people don't get is that, Emo, has nothing to do with lyrics, or the look of the band. Emo is a sub-genre that was created to break away from the common limitations of punk. --Iluvmesodou 07:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

fall out boy thinks there only pop punk heres my proof http://www.myspace.com/falloutboy look at the genres above the picture. Kevinhwashere 00:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I somehow missed this until now. They've stated (I'll have to dig for the link) that the genres listed on their myspace page are only for categorization on myspace, but they they don't consider themselves as pop-punk. Personally, I believe those to be the most accurate, though. LaraLove 05:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why the article lists them as having "disputed subgenres" when there are a plethera of sources citing them as being emo. Just because the band and their fans don't seem to like the label doesn't mean it isn't true. This is an encyclopedia not a fan site if enough reliable sources say that they're emo there is absolutely no reason why they should be listed as such. Display Name 04:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Emo is listed as "disputed" for the following reasons:

1. Although many news outlets refer to them as emo, their music does not fall under the emo genre.
2. Inclusion of emo causes much debate and is consistently challenged as incorrect; in other words, it is disputed regularly.

It seems to be the most appropriate way of including it.

It's worth noting, I think, that I'm a FOB fan and could really care less if they were emo, as I am a fan of some emo bands and am not at all ashamed of that. However, I don't believe FOB falls under the emo genre. Note also that I've never really taken a position on it. I've actually listed several sites that claim emo. My biggest issue is regarding pop-punk, which they very much are, in my opinion, but they claim otherwise. Very frustrating. LaraLove 05:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I have to rewrite that section anyway to include their musical influences (something I've been putting off for a while now). I could rewrite it to more closely resemble that of My Chemical Romance, which has encountered a similar issue as FOB regarding genres.

Major changes to article

Before making major changes to the article (ie. removing paragraphs of information, adding or renaming sections, etc.) make sure you understand Wikipedia policies. I'm restoring and correcting as much information as I can, but to prevent the necessity for such attention, read through some guidelines or ask before making changes.

Wikipedia is not a trivia book, work it into the body if it's relevant

• Fall Out Boy got their name from a fan who shouted to them "call yourself Fall Out Boy" and from that moment on they did (said by Pete Wentz in an interview)

[4]

• The Knights of Columbus Hall was the site of many early Fall Out Boy shows. Their video for "Dead on Arrival" was filmed there, which also served as a site for several "secret shows".

• The band was featured on Bad Scene, Everyone's Fault, a tribute album to the band Jawbreaker, covering "Save Your Generation". They also did a cover of "Roxanne" by The Police for the limited edition of Take This to Your Grave and for ¡Policia!: A Tribute to the Police.

• In 2005, the band's stability was threatened when Wentz overdosed on the sedative Ativan in a failed suicide attempt.

• Lead singer Patrick Stump was featured on two songs with Gym Class Heroes (also signed with Fueled By Ramen) including their Top 5 Single Cupid's Chokehold. He also was a guest vocalist on Motion City Soundtrack single Everything is Alright.

• They have also collaborated with producer Timbaland for his new album Timbaland Presents Shock Value. They are featured in Timbaland's song, "One & Only", on which Stump and Wentz both contributed in writing.

• The title of the song "7 Minutes in Heaven 'Atavan Haven'" from their album From Under the Cork Tree is based upon Wentz's attempted suicide.

• Fall Out Boy has toured with multiple bands, including Taking Back Sunday, Less Than Jake, Blink-182, Panic! at the Disco, Midtown, Hawthorne Heights, The All-American Rejects, Boys Night Out, The Academy Is..., The Hush Sound, October Fall, Alister, From First to Last, Cobra Starship and Shiny Toy Guns.

• The only non-rock act they have toured with is Paul Wall

Regards, LaraLove^T/_C 18:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Ready for Good Article nomination?

No. But I would like for it to be. I spend hours reviewing articles, many of which on topics I know nothing about, and don't really care about, and I help promote some of those to GA status. It's occurred to me, why not just use my GA knowledge to promote an article on a topic I love to GA status? So that brings me here. Considering there are a few editors who regularly edit this article, I'd like to list all suggestions here for discussion.

To make things easier, I've successfully requested the the semi-protection be restored, so we won't have to worry about vandalism from IPs and new registers. Also, for consistency sake:

• please be sure all additions use one space between sentences as opposed to two, as that is the format this article utilizes.
• Any information added to the lead must be expanded upon in the body of the article.
• Be sure references are added along with new information, as applicable, using cite templates (see WP:CITE).

Images

• We need a good concert photo that has all of the boys in it to replace the current infobox image which has only three in view. The image can not be copyrighted in anyway... no rights reserved.
• I think this article would better benefit from the use of album covers placed in their respective sections and thumbnail images in the discography table. Similar to My Chemical Romance, for example.
• Screen shots from their videos would also be good. Not to say all these images would be used, but it would be nice to have a few to choose from.

  Fails fair use.

Audio

If anyone has any experience in sample boxes, that would be a great addition for this article. "Dance, Dance" and "This Ain't a Scene, It's an Arms Race" are definite needs.

Expansion of information

• Expanding "2001-2002: The beginning" would be good.

• Very much agreed. I have tried to find more information because anything I add would be unsourced. Cnota 07:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Has FOB cited any bands as inspiration? This would be a good addition to the Musical style section.

  I did some research. Patrick Stump said in an interview, "I think this record is a little more eclectic than anything we've done before, but it's never without purpose," says frontman Patrick Stump. "We're into hip hop and R&B - you know, '70s funk. We're into metal - legit metal. There's a gazillion things going on as far as influences, and we just kind of let them out this time."[5]

  Influences: Blink 182, Midtown, New Found Glory and older Saves The Day, Green Day, The Descendents, The Who, Run DMC[6] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LaraLove (talk • contribs) 16:26, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

• For balance, a criticism section, if applicable.

I'll go through the article in its entirety soon, but those are some initials issues. Regards, LaraLove^T/_C 17:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The article has achieved GA, but it still can use improvements listed above. Lara♥Love 17:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Image

Logo 1 or Logo 2

Which should we use?

• I think the first one. It's the logo from their most recent album, also the logo atop their website and myspace page. LaraLove 04:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Clear cut IMHO. Logo 1 is the one that is currently in use by the band. Given the rationales of "fair use" to place a previous logo on Wikipedia is a stretch too far. A current Logo is really the only thing that can be legitimate "fair use" and as Lara says this is the one on their website. Until there are better guidelines from the foundation on all this free use stuff, the less the better, and certainly only what can be justified. Pedro |  Chat  14:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Personally, I'd say that the second should be moved to the Commons and used. See where theCopyright Office states that "variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring" are not eligible for copyright. I'm not sure how this would apply to the first since it's an actual logo design (since the same letters are written differently). The second, however, just uses a font which cannot be copyrighted and should be tagged with {{PD-ineligible}}. 17Drew 00:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Maximum Fall Out Boy

While browsing through Amazon.com, I found a CD called "Maximum Fall Out Boy". It said as it's review on the lines of, "A vocals-only CD that is a documentary of the group. It will have no songs." I've yet to find an article on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.167.81 (talk) 23:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

There isn't an article. There isn't really much to it. Just sound clips from interviews which contain information which is already widely known. LaraLove 00:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I like eggs and bacon is one of fall out boyd unreleased songs and was recorded when they were on a low and were unestablished —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.178.21 (talk) 17:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Print sources

I've taken the liberty of searching for a few print sources, which are always a plus to an article. Would someone undertake the challenge of incorporating them into the article? You could could source unsourced points, or add additional info about their music etc.

Fall Out Boy rocketed to emo/pop-punk stardom, going from a nameless band in 2000 to winning the MTV2 Award at MTV's Video Music Award in 2005 for their popular first single "Sugar, We're Going Down" from the album From Under the Cork Tree. Comprised of lead singer, bassist, and lyricist Peter Wentz, guitarists Patrick Stump and Joe Trohman, and drummer Andy Hurley, Fall Out Boy has combined success with a large dose of irreverence.

Wentz, Stump, Trohman, and Hurley performed as a nameless band until one night they asked the crowd they were performing for to give them a name. Stump told Joe Kominowski of DrivenFarOff.com that "it was kind of an accident." What they got was a reference to a character named Fallout Boy, which came from the popular animated series The Simpsons, and it subsequently became the name for their band.

In 2002 Fall Out Boy released a split album with Project Rocket on Uprising Records. This was followed a year later by Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend, an EP released by Uprising Records. It turned out to be an eventful year for the group, as they were signed to the Gainesville, Florida, label Fueled By Ramen. At the same time, the group signed a distribution deal with Island Records, which also included a right of first refusal for the band's follow-up record.

Take This To Your Grave was recorded in Madison, Wisconsin, at Smart Studios. Sean O'Keefe, who had produced pop-punk favorites like Motion City Soundtrack, engineered Fall Out Boy's major label debut. Take This To Your Grave was mostly written out of the anger and hurt that Wentz experienced when he discovered his girlfriend had cheated on him, but while the songs are dark, they are also humorous, revealing a balance between the maudlin and the comic.

Critics found much to like on the album. The group's performance at South by Southwest, a showcase of bands from around the country that takes place yearly in Austin, Texas, was also well received. Despite the critical attention, there were still some hurdles to overcome. Wentz explained to James Montgomery of VH1.com what it was like touring for Take This To Your Grave with the band Less Than Jake: "On the Less Than Jake tour, we were so green they had us open for a magician. It was really depressing. They were like 'OK, it's you guys, then the magician, then us.' It was insane."... From: "Fall Out Boy." Contemporary Musicians, Volume 57. Thomson Gale, 2005.

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Nestled between hardcore and emo is softcore, and Fall Out Boy is one of the subgenre's best-kept secrets. That's about to change, though. With an infectious beat and an amusingly anthemic chorus, "Sugar, We're Goin Down"-the first single off the album "From Under the Cork Tree"-is one sticky melody. So it is not surprising that the video is already a big hit on MTV's "TRL" and the song is quickly climbing The Billboard Hot 100. Mixed by hitmaker Tom Lord-Alge (Blink-182, Weezer), "Sugar" is sure to be a taste of sweet success for the band.-KK From: Kroll, Katy. "FALL OUT BOY: Sugar, We're Goin Down." Billboard. 23 Jul 2005. Volume: 117; ISSN: 00062510 pg 40

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The theatrical and irreverent third-generation emo that they pioneered has become a certifiable subgenre, inspiring hit acts like their protégés Panic! At the Disco. But Infinity proves they're the masters of this peculiar art. The guiding force is bassist-lyricist Pete Wentz, responsible for "You're Crashing, but You're No Wave," "The Carpal Tunnel of Love," and other exuberantly pun-filled songs that both wallow in and lampoon emo angst. "A penny for your thoughts/But a dollar for your insides/And a fortune for your disaster/I'm just a painter...And I'm drawing a blank," Stump sings in the galloping power-pop blast "Don't You Know Who I Think I Am?" Like all Fall Out Boy lyrics, it's not quite as clever as Wentz seems to think, and his obsession with posers, lame "scenes," and, above all, his own band might annoy listeners not currently enrolled in high school. But Wentz's words have a pleasing vernacular spunkinessthis is the Esperanto of young American suburbia, poetry of the mall and the chat room. Who but Wentz would brag, "Every dotcom's refreshing for a journal update"?

Of course, it's the loud, jagged sound that really moves the kids. FOB's guitars still blare, and Stump has evolved into a superb frontman, with a voice that slides supplely from a bratty punk bark into a honeyed falsetto. But the pleasant surprise here is the band's new sense of swing: Several songs, including the hit "This Ain't a Scene, It's an Arms Race," dip winningly into R&B, a move aided by co-producer Babyface. Lo and behold, it turns out these pasty emo boys are a pretty great blue-eyed soul band. Infinity ain't exactly Thrillerbut Maroon 5 better watch their backs. Lifted from: Rosen, Jody. "Boy Wonders"." Entertainment Weekly. 09 Feb 2007. Page: 71; Section: THE REVIEWS: MUSIC

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...Enter Fall Out Boy, the Chicago four-piece who surprised everyone with a top 10 debut for their hummable From Under the Cork Tree. First single "Sugar, We're Goin' Down" just hit No. 1 on TRL, coinciding with a coheadlining stint on the Vans Warped Tour (through Aug. 15). Says singer-guitarist Patrick Stump, "[We've never] been about goals, so this is a bit bizarre."

Formed in 2001 from the remains of several Chi-town hardcore bands, the college dropouts exhibited their laissez-faire attitude when settling on a monikera character from The Simpsonsafter a fan shouted it out at a gig. "Maybe you shouldn't put that in there," says Stump. "If Matt Groening's reading anything, [it's] EW." But more than their name, the band is infamous for their never-ending song titles. So what's the writer of tunes like "I've Got a Dark Alley and a Bad Idea That Says You Should Shut Your Mouth (Summer Song)" have to say for himself? Responds bassist-lyricist Pete Wentz: "We write titles that fit the songs, whether it's one word or 87 words." Alert the Verbosity Police! We have another Fiona Apple on our hands.From: Raymond Fiore; Publication: Entertainment Weekly Issue: July 15, 2005 No. 829.

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Pop-punk act Fall Out Boy has a knack for mixing polished hooks, hyperactive guitars and clever pop culture references. Here, the hilarious throwback title, a tribute to teen movie "Sixteen Candles" and Samantha Fox's 1986 make-out hit, is more exciting than the song itself. Calling all teenagers suffering from an unattainable crush, this emo-ish relationship drama does little to update the uptempo-breakdown-uptempo formula, but it certainly honors it. The quartet rips angsty, I'm-so-messed-up confessions into catchy riffs and a melodic chorus that soars despite its déjà vu feel. However, top 40 radio is a long shot this time; "A Little Less" is not as infectious as "Dance, Dance" and less anthemic than "Sugar, We're Goin' Down." But after two top 10 singles, a multiplatinum album and a Grammy Award nomination, these guys can afford a momentary break from mainstream success.-SPFALL OUT BOY: A Little Less "Sixteen Candles," A Little More "Touch Me" From: Philipp, Sven. Billboard Magazine. Volume: 118 Number: 11, ISSN: 00062510, Publication Date: 03-18-2006, Page: 60

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The band started, in 2002, as a fairly unremarkable example of emo--a descendant of punk rock in which political lyrics and noise have been exchanged for plaints about brokenhearted boys and their anonymous girlfriends--and evolved into a famous act that sings about the mechanics of celebrity. The group's second album, "Take This to Your Grave" (2003), appeared on an independent punk-rock label called Fueled by Ramen--the name refers to the marginal existences of touring bands--and the drummer, Andy Hurley, still claims to be a vegan anarchist. ("My whole thing is I'm not into civilization as a whole," he recently told Rolling Stone.) "From Under the Cork Tree" and "Infinity on High" were released by a major label, Island Records; the first song on "Infinity" is called "Thriller," after the biggest-selling album of all time. It begins with some cheerleading by the rapper Jay-Z, the C.E.O. of Def Jam, Island's sister label: "We dedicate this album to anybody people said couldn't make it. To the fans that held us down till everybody came around, welcome. It's here."

The album is deeply pleasurable, consisting of compressed, torqued-up rock songs that rarely detour into instrumental passages and return single-mindedly to choruses that range from the reasonably hummable to the eminently hummable. Like the band's other albums, "Infinity" is the product of an atypical division of labor, between the husky blond guitarist and singer Patrick Stump, who composes the rapidly shifting, unabashedly melodic music (he's a fan of soul, and warms up for shows by singing Nat King Cole's version of "Almost Like Being in Love"), and Wentz, whose clever lyrics rely on pop-culture references. ("A Little Less 'Sixteen Candles,' a Little More 'Touch Me' " is the name of a song from "Cork Tree.") Many people who have never heard Fall Out Boy know that Wentz has been romantically linked with starlets like Michelle Trachtenberg and Lindsay Lohan, and that last year nude pictures that Wentz took of himself with his Sidekick made their way onto the Internet. Wentz spends almost as much time online as the band's fans do. As he said in a recent interview, "I blog pretty hard."

Fall Out Boy retains some formal connections to punk--the generally rapid tempos and distorted guitars will be familiar to anyone who has heard Green Day or Blink-182--but, with a few tweaks, Stump's songs could work perfectly well as country or R. & B. numbers. His vocals are open-throated and powerful, a bit reminiscent of eighties New Wave singers like Howard Jones, though his belting style suggests that of a musical-theatre performer. Wentz's lyrics can be cynical and sour--"We're the new face of failure, prettier and younger but not any better off " is a line from "I'm Like a Lawyer with the Way I'm Always Trying to Get You Off (Me & You)"--but Stump sings them on bended knee, seemingly incapable of insincerity. Reviewers have compared the band to groups as varied as the Backstreet Boys and Kiss, which is a good indication of Fall Out Boy's omnivorous approach. Unlike the Backstreet Boys, Fall Out Boy's members write their own material, and, unlike Kiss, all four musicians are technically expert players. Like both bands, however, Fall Out Boy is determined to be as entertaining as possible. (The songs often sound like epic ballads by Journey.) Frere-Jones, Sasha. 'Fear Factor-- Infinity on High by Fall Out Boy'. The New Yorker, March 12, 2007 vol. 83 issue.3, p86 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Journalist (talk • contribs) 20:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course, i couldn't paste the articles in their entirety (copyvio), but if u need the rest, just tell me and I'll e-mail it, or something. Orane (talk) 02:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fall out boy is pop-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fob121692 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

^ That's a true story. Lara❤Love 05:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

That was a lot of work to refute the lead singer's own statement, "My name is Patrick Stump from Fall Out Boy. We have nothing to do with being called Emo. If we grew up in Seattle in the '90s, we'd probably be called grunge, right?" With BLP it's better to be safe than to be libelous, so since they write and own the rights to the music, I would say their input may be an important factor in deciding their genre. There are certain liberties that we are all afforded, and one being the right to decide which genre we consider our own. the_undertow ^talk 05:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh no. I wasn't trying to push the emo point. Laura and I have come to a mutual understanding about that. I was just trying to provide a few print sources (I didn't even notice the emo points in the excerpts, and I don't think every one of them describe FOB as "emo"). And what you say is true: if they say the're not emo, then we can't tell them that they are. Orane (talk) 21:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please use these pages to discuss the article and avoid turning this talk page into a a chat room. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

(EC)The debate over the status of the band is taken very seriously by the editors of the page and an arbitrary humor break, especially one that runs tangent to the content of the article is justifiable and has not compromised the integrity of the encyclopedia. By discussing our personal opinion of celebrity sexuality, and then DIRECTLY applying it towards a compromise/consensus as to the band's genre, by virtue of the band's own words, is applicable and productive. the_undertow ^talk 01:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

NO WAY JOSE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.35.130 (talk) 01:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC) Yea guys. Stay focused and be serious. This is Wikipedia. We're not here to have fun. Lara❤Love 01:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, guys :). But it's not like it's a prolonged banter or anything... Orane (talk) 02:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

STOP

BTW, how did that stop sign with the hand make it on the talk page? If consensus is ever-changing, then it surely it is a prime example of WP:OWN. Imaging a new user coming to this page and seeing it. The impression is could give is negative, seeing as how debate is and should always be welcome. Telling users that a discussion is over and done with violates everything about consensus. the_undertow ^talk 03:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw that banner on My Chemical Romance's talk page, copied it here and customized it. Since then, the frequency of emo posts has plummeted. I suppose I could just ignore anyone that posts about it. Considering I've had this discussion so many times I could burst, and considering the genre information is sourced in the article, it seems pointless to debate it constantly. So either way. If I'm violating something, remove it. But I'm done debating on whether or not Fall Out Boy is emo. Lara❤Love 03:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I find this approach on the info box to be cool. the_undertow ^talk 03:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

But that encourages discussion, which is what I'm trying to avoid. ;) This convo could have happened much fast in IM, btw. Lara❤Love 05:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Original members

The original members of Fall Out boy (circa 2001) are as follows....

Patrick Stump - vocals Peter Wentz - vocals, bass guitar Joe Trohman - guitar, vocals TJ Racine - guitar, backing vocals Mike - drums

Jared Logan was the producer of the band's Demo, Split EP, and first album, not the lead guitarist, though he has played drums when recording the band's first album and has also worked with bands like 7 Angels 7 Plagues. TJ Racine actually played guitar for the band, while a member simply credited as "Mike" played the drums. Jared Logan is not an original member of Fall Out Boy, but TJ Racine and Mike are the two original members of the band who left before Andy became the band's permanent drummer. Therefore the "Early Years" section of the page needs to be changed accordingly.

Souce(s): http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6855041/a/Evening+Out+With+Your+Girlfriend.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjohnsonphd (talk • contribs) 20:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)