Talk:Paper

Wallpaper as "Packaging"

Is Wallpaper really correctly categorized as "packaging?" Maybe it would be more reasonable to make a new first-level bullet for "decoration" or some such, perhaps also classing "art" there. --63.166.226.83 19:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Durability of different types of Paper

Maybe something should be said about the durability of different types of paper. The paper used in money, for example, is durable thru several machine washings, whereas regular paper is not. This is (I believe) due to the fact that it is made from linen and other long-fibre materials, versus the short fibre wood pulp. But I could be wrong.
-- ~ender 2005-02-27 10:06:MST

I would also like to see something on durability, and the process breakdown of the fibers. E.g., would an expert contribute something about UV exposure turning cellulose to glucose? --Theodore Kloba 14:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Paper, the type developed by Tai C' Lun was made from the bast fibers found in the bark of trees like the mulberry - exported to Japan, and still used in traditional paper, and from grass's. these fibers were not avliable in the far western provinces of China, the region where the army defeated in 751, at the battle of Talas was recruited. Thus the Arab army captured papermakers who had developed the traditional technique to be used with recycled materials, like clothes.

Papermaking started in Samarkand, and a shortage of water enabled the arabs to adapt the chinese method further, producing a thicker sheet of paper that was sun dried, and burnished with gum arabic to reduce its bulk. Unlike Chinese paper, and Papyrus, it could be written on both sides. The Technology was transfered to Baghdad, and Damascus, where it was sold to the Christians as Charta Damascura. The Early western europeans thought it was another form of Papyrus, and so called it Paper by mistake. The crusades distroyed the centre of production, and it was moved to Iran and Morish spain, where the first European papermill was constructed (Xiavia 1120). Rags, were used to make the fibres and bones the glue to seal them, as the europeans were not used to vegtable gums like the Arabs were.

First there ws a shortge of fresh glue (bones) so allum was added to the size to stop it rotting in warm weather. This introduced chemicals into the rag paper. Then the Dutch invented machines (Hollanders) to make the rag pulp in one day, as opposed to the 6 months required by the traditional rotting (retting) nd stamping method. The trditionl wooden stampers put in the odd oak fiber into the paper which would discoulour with time. Hollanders used iron combs, so rust spots appear around the 1750's. Also the rags were not heted up in a decomposition process, so specks of mould,(foxing) appear too. The rapid process also produces more damaged fibres, so the strnght of the paper is reduced marginally.

Then a shortage in rags led to specilist papers in the 18 century, Sailors uniforms were reduced down to blue sugar paper. ropes to brown wrapping paper. Soldiers uniforms to official recipts - hence English goverment recipts were pink, and French pale blue. Finally they looked at other fibres, and wood was discovered. Woodfibres however have a network polymer called lignin, which is reactive with UV light, and asorbs sulphur from the atmosphere. This turns the paper yellow when exposed to sunlight. Modern paper is treated by adding chalk to counter the acidic sulphur, and is bleached as well. But the chalk makes the fibers less durable. Chemicl (retting) process are used to prepare the fibres as well, which helps somewhat, but the pulp is still inferior to bank note paper, made from pure turkish linen.

David Calladine, Paper Conservator

Wood-pulp Revolution

The revolution from linen & rag to wood-pulp was caused by a chemical process (whose name I am forgetting). Without it, woodpuplp was un-economical base to make paper from (I'm told there was a way to make paper by stripping bark from young saplings... but that's not economical).
-- ~ender 2005-07-13 11:05:MST

Amusing observation

Is it just me, or is the image of 'piece of paper' a candidate for the blandest, most inane and yet subtly hillarious image on all of wikipedia?

I resemble that remark, I'm the one who put it up here! After all, if we're going to have an article about something, shouldn't we include a picture? Paul Robinson 23:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not just you. Subtly hilarious is right, but what else you gonna do? It's paper! 132.234.251.211 03:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

So A picture of...Paper? Girlvader21 6:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

What about a photo with several types of paper: newsprint, rag, photographic, colored, handmade, Japanese? I'd do it, lol, but I'm averse to paper cuts from fellow Wikis. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 09:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

POV in the "Conservation" section.

The whole section sounds very POV and unsourced, especially Several major Asian producers, for example, with strong connections to their respective Governments and bureaucracy have been systematically stripping rainforest for many years. Often the logs are transhipped to other countries to disguise the damaging trade and These concerns are not merely side issues but rather display the comprehensive problems that occur when production dominates thinking. As in many problems over the years the mistaken belief is, and has traditionally been, that nature can cope. The short answer now is that nature cannot and increasingly the state of the ecosystems has been rendered such that the position has, and is becoming, terminal. Joyous 00:57, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I removed it all. It was all added by User:Vince over a year ago. He has also created such decidedly POV articles as Vested interests and side issue, among others. --brian0918™ 17:00, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Paper is made from soft woods, not hardwoods. The fibres in rainforest trees are short and fat, and have vast amounts of network polymers (ligin) surrounding them. Thus they are unsuitable for making paper. Other plants in the region, Manilla sisal is much better.

Soft wood fibers are much longer, and more suitable for paper production, and the paper industury plants about three times more trees than it cuts down, as an insurance policy against forest fire or diesese preventing its future production. It has to think about 20 years ahead, and is one of the most environmental of industuries. The logs are floated down the rivers, to the mills, the bark is turned into compost for the saplings of future planting, and also sold to garden centres. the finish product is then shipped by rail or sea.

Recycled paper is however the bug threat. it takes three times the energy and some nasty chemicals to remove the ink and other media from a piece of paper, than it does to produce a new sheet. The recycled paper is so weak, that it not durable for any length of time, so is only fit for nsty toilet paper of middles of cardboard box industury, and the carbon foootprint in recycling this productas paper is enourmous. It would be better to burn the old paper.

Dave Calladine, Paper Conservator

disambiguation page?

I noticed this is a disambiguation page, but I can't see any good reason for that. Have I misunderstood the use of that tag, or should it be removed from this page? Whitepaw 21:28, 2005 May 1 (UTC)

There was this notice by the tag: "There should be a page disambiguating Paper (the matterial) and Paper (scientific publication)". Certainly; however, this page does not fulfill that function, and is therefore not a disambig page. I'd definately suggest that it be turned into one, though, and will try to do it when I get the time. - Haunti 10:40, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

paper weight

The weight of paper, 20lbs, 24lbs, 68lbs, etc could be discussed. Or is that in another article? 20-24lbs is generally printing paper, 68lbs is cover stock, and 110+lbs is card stock. The story of that weight is- when paper is produced, it is all made into a standard size sheet, no matter what the thickness, and then cut. A full uncut sheet (I'm not sure of the size) will weigh 24lbs, 68lbs, etc.

At least, this is what a sales person from Hammermill told me when Hammermill switched machines and tried to change the weights of their papers, creating mass confusion. Can any one refute or confirm this? I think it would be cool to have in the article, but I don't have any sources.

Would you mind to let me konw how to change lbs to gsm? Newone 10:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to add it, sources or no - it's important and should be included.128.122.193.222 13:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I added a paraphrased explanation from an official Hammermill publication. By-the-way, paper is NOT all made all into the same basic uncut sizes, so any further mods might want to avoid implying that's the case. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 10:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Paper Weight Demystified

Paper weight is an easy to understand formula when using metric measure. In metric measure all paper weight is based on how many grams per square meter per single sheet of paper or G/M2. So you might see a weight the likes of 100 G/M2 or 90 G/M2. All paper grades are measured in this same manner in metric paper measure.

On the other hand paper weight in imperial measure which is used primarily in North America is slightly confusing. All imperial paper weights are measured depending on the most popular end use of a particular grade. So you might have a text paper, cover paper, bond paper or writing paper to name a few of the more common paper basis weight categories. Each of these paper grades has its own “basis size” and then is measured by weighing 500 sheets of each basis size. As an example a text paper is based on the basis size 25 x 38 x 500 sheets = X lbs. and is referred to as an X lb. text paper.

Here’s the confusing part. You can have two sheets of the same paper and weigh each of the sheets based on different basis sizes and you will have two different paper weights for the same sheet of paper. Because of this peculiar situation you must always know which basis size is being referenced. When a paper is referred to as an 80 lb. without the basis qualifier, text, cover, etc. you cannot be sure what weight of paper is being referenced. It could be a text basis or a cover basis or any basis of the many basis sizes commonly used in North American paper measure. Therefore, to be clear and accurate when you are describing a paper’s weight you must always identify the paper you are describing by calling it X lb. text, X lb. cover, X lb bond, X lb. writing or the same with any of the other basis size categories when X indicates the paper’s weight.

Good Lord, what a mess. Yet another reason we should all switch over to the metric system. [sigh] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.6.66.193 (talk • contribs) 21:30, January 17, 2007 (UTC)

Metric conversion, yes, but it won't help, here. This issue arises because manufacturers apply a weight to paper when it's in any number of basic forms which end customers do not see and are unaware of. There's no explanation how what they are seeing has been cut down -- or from what basic size it's been cut down. What would help is if manufacturers adopted something more intuitive -- such as the weight of 1 square inch of 500 sheets. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 10:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I have some paper weight charts and paper weight calculators which are very helpful. However this link is to a commercial site with helpful and very accurate information. If any Wiki's are offended please find replacement information prior to removing these helpful links to paper weight calculations and paper weight calculators.

Thanks for the info — I was wondering about the mysterious subject of paper weights myself. Maybe if you have time [regretfully, I don't], you'd like to add your insight into the article itself? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.6.66.193 (talk • contribs) 21:30, January 17, 2007 (UTC)

I think you problem is that you are trying to describe paper in terms of North America, the last place on earth where it was historically manufactured in the traditional manner.

Paper was made in a mould, the paper was formed on a wire support, which would show up in the finished sheet as a (watermark) light pattern. the thickness of the paper was detirmed by the depth of the frame which was used to hold the paper pulp over the support, whilst the water was pulled through by suction. The dimensions of the frame were historically give names, and the papermakers mate, the coucher (layer) would lay these in a pile of 480 (English) or 500 (French) sheets with felt seperators in between. This pile was then pressed to remove the excess water, and hung over raop for 6 months to dry. that pile was called a ream, and paper was sold by the ream, expressed by its weight.

Paper was made locally to where it was used, so standard sized sheets (with local variation) were made for particular jobs. The royal, used by government in England used to have the royal crown and arms on it, until Oliver Cromwell decided to remove them in the English Cival War (1640). When asked what to replace them with, he suggested a clowns hat, and thus a Fools cap (foolscap) watermark and paper size was established. As printing improved, so the demand for larger sheets of paper was created. Imperial was superceeded by Elephant, and Double imperial, until the invention of the papermaking machine created a continous roll of paper.

Modern paper is sold by a German system, where two sheets of A4 paper plced side by side will equal one sheet of A3. the weight is expressed as its Gramms per Square Meter, but there was an Imperil system in oz per square Inch. However it arrived too late, and the German system of A sizes was more easier to understand.

Dave Calladine, Paper Conservator.

Paper and cultural advancement

From the article:

Some historians speculate that paper was the key element in global cultural advancement. According to this theory, Chinese culture was less developed than the West's in ancient times because bamboo (although abundance of materials is generally the primary reason for the use of bamboo as opposed to scientific prowess) was a clumsier writing material than papyrus; Chinese culture advanced during the Han Dynasty and preceding centuries due to the invention of paper; and Europe advanced during the Renaissance due to the introduction of paper and the printing press.

Does anyone know where I could read more about this?

I m sorry, but archilogical evidence suggests that China was in fact more advnced in many areas. As were many of the Pagan cultures outside of Rome, which is the dominant culture in Western europe. So if great chunks of the globe were in fact more advanced than (Rome) Western Europe, it is history which is at fault, in that it is written by the victor, and Rome, as it continued by the Western Church, held back European development for over 500 years by some very niffty editing of the facts. Its the Arab development of Papermaking that saved this information for us Europeans to re-discover. Unlike Papyrus, early paper can be written on both sides and does not fall into little squares with age. Its not paper, but what you do with it.

Paper is a Chinese invention, however it can be argued that it held back thier development somewhat, because it is so smooth to write on, the Chinese system of writing was frozen in a very early form. Thus the Chinese with all thier technological advancements could not easily share and develop those ideas.

Writing is developed by the material that the information is written upon. Cuniform was triangular and angular because that is what is easier to read on wet clay. But cuniform is heavy and was restricted to the royal archives, so the Hittites and Messopotainas who used it never advanced above the competition.

Likewise, Egyptian was developed on soft sandstone and linen sheets, thus pictures were never shortened to make them easier to write. Egypt was fast in setting up taxes and a military system, but was held back because the new papyrus writing material was exclusivly retained for the rich to guide them through the afterlife, stored in scrolls too heavy for ordinary folks to hold. Egypt stood still whilst Greece, Carthage and Rome flourished. Religion was associated with the writing, thus it was not developed further.

Greek is written left to right because the first pens would blot on the papyrus if they were forced over the rough surface the opposite direction. But they had an additional problem, they had to carve into hard marble, so adapted thier aphabet into a much simplier form. The Greeks got Papyrus very late in thier history, thus has a simplified alphbet, and used it to spread thier knowlege in libraries and museums.

The Chinese developed from similar pictures to the Egyptians, but had been forced to make scratches on (Oracle) bone as they did not have a smooth surface. Thus Chinese pictures were developed into charichters. But an early development of Silk then paper held back Chinese development in the modern age, as the charichters are harder to print. The writing system never developed. The royal and religious texts were formed, and science was stuck with a rigid writing form.

The development of the Arabic 22 letter alphabet developed out of a shortage of writing materials - is written right to left because they first wrote on linen sheets. Its the natrual way to write, as you can see the margin, and adjust your letters to look neater. However Fate held back the Great Arabic empires. Arabic vowels added as dots, proved so hard to add to typecast lead letters, that printing never took off despite the technology hitting Ciaro in 1300, because they had a good writing surface they had flourished, but an unfortunate link of thie alphbet to the holy texts meant that they were ultimatley held back in the industurial era.

The chinese invented printing 700 years before Gutenberg, however, because Gutenberg was using Roman (Latin) letters, developed from Greek - for carving onto hard marble surfaces, he had only to mke 26 letters for his moveabal type. The Chinese still use 900 symbols. China is only just entering the industurial age with the development of the computer, like the Middle East.

In the West however, the roman text was not linked to religion, it was a pagan invention, and thus it was not sacred and could be adapted, changed and modified. Paper was a cheap material that allowed printing to spread knowlege and that is what caused global advancement.

David Calladine, Paper Conservator.

Another amusing observation

The article states that the manufacturing process has 4 steps, but there are only 3 headings listed underneath? Was a step forgotten or did the contributor just forget how to count :P Specialbrad 18:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

• Has been fixed recently.

Funny they talk about creating the raw pulp, but not about laying the paper - or creating the 'web'?

What about Mesoamerica?

I noticed that this article is very Eastern Hemisphere. What about adding a section on Mesoamerican paper-making? There's a Wikipedia article available on amate (amatl) paper, made from fig tree bark...

1. most societies, including the Saxons in England wrote on tree barks 2. most early writing materials do not survive into archeology 3. the conquest of America was aCCOMPANIED BY THE BURNING ON ALL HERITICAL material, which included many books.

which type of

paper is used for making photos?

Pece Kocovski 11:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

photographic paper ?

Photographic paper is made from a rag paper which is free from ligin and ph netural, (Silversafe) most high grade paper is machine mould made (not continuios web) with raw cotton linters in high grade gelatine size.

Enjoying Paper?

"This man is enjoying the many benefits of paper in a safe, healthy way."

This line is completely irrelevant to the article, as is the picture. Wikipedia's job is not to show how paper is enjoyed, but what paper is and what its function is. I am going to remove it once more -- those who want to keep it, please state why here. I find the picture and caption irrelevant, almost hilariously so. Alexander VII 14:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

cotton vs. wood

The article currently states

"cotton based tissue papers are ... far more environmentally friendly than wood papers, as they are made from renewable materials."

This seems wrong to me. Cotton and wood are both renewable materials, right?

Technically yes, but in practice it's probably much more difficult to replenish forests at the same rate as you consume them than it is to replenish cotton fields - in logging the entire tree is destroyed and must start again from scratch, and it takes years to regrow a tree to the same size as the ones that are felled; I think cotton can be harvested without destroying the plant at all (I could be wrong - the wikipedia page on cotton doesn't mention it), but even so, it'll probably grow back much faster than a tree will.

Just because an entire tree must be harvested does not mean that it is not environmentally friendly, and I don't think a regrowth rate is a strong enough argument to justify calling foresting environmentally unfriendly. At least, "far more" is too strong, and at most, the whole statement should be stripped of its POV. Akrabbim 22:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Cotton based tissue papers are thin and will break apat with use! Cotton made paper - if hand made will last for over 400 years, and is very strong. however, it depends on the source of the cotton, a very water dependant crop. most of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan have now created an environmental disaster when they diverted so much water from the Ural Sea to grow cotton that the sea has almost disapeared.

Woodpulp on the other hand, form northern forests is very very environmentally managed, and a sheet of good virgin paper, will last about 250 years. The real problem is recycled paper, which will last 30 years and creates far more polution to clean than the raw material took to create in the first place - Dave Calladine

Sources of the article

Does anyone know of the sources of the article? There are links, but no references. If someone could add references, that wood be great. Bcem2 23:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The introduction of paper into Europe, from muslims through Catalonia

The first european paper mill was started in Xativa (Valencia) in year 1150 by arabians. Christians conquered Valencia in 1238 and mantained this industry; king Jaume I was the first king in europe to use paper for official documents. Paper was not readily accepted everywhere and Catalonia kept a leading position in the making of paper for three centuries more. By 1284 paper trade was very important; there were only two producers: Catalonia and Lombardia (Italy); in Catalonia it was called "paper" and in Italy it was called "carta". Paper was made by the first time in France in 1318 where it was named "papier catalan". Paper production in Holland began in year 1340 in a mill founded by catalan craftsmen.

The catalan name "paper" was exported to many european languages. German: papier, English: paper, Polish: papier, Check: papir, Croacian: papir. Other languages (Russian: bumaga) took the root from the Greek word for "cotton".

The word paper comes in turn from papyrus, an egiptian plant used to make a different kind of material. Arabians learned the art of making paper after the conquest of Samarcanda, in year 751.

• • And the last sentence must be referring to the Battle of Talas, I guess.

'Paper' is a Greek word, 'Charta' the Latin word, the two languages of the Reformation. The Byzantium church had continued to use Parchment, invented in Permagum. where the Russian Orthadox word for paper comes from.

By 1284, most of the paper in Europe, still a new material - was being imported from the Middle East. Antioch was a traditional papermaking town on the coast, but after the Crusader seige of 1096, production was moved to Damascus, however, up to the 9th crusade of 1272 it was used to ship the Charta Damascura to Europe. The production was decreasing, as the Mamluk sultinate had shifted the Empires capital to Ciaro 1260 because of the crusade attacks.

In 1272 the flow stopped, and Fabriano in Italy became the new source of this material. Charta Papyir stopped being produced after Timor and his Mongol hoard sacked Damacus in 1400. Paper was a cheap alternative to parchment, because the church was the only literate society, and thus its only customer. When printing was re-inveted by Gutenberg, paper had a use, where it was superior to parchment, and thus papermaking spread. The words used reflecting the European language of the reformation - Greek and Latin. Dave Calladine

Something about thickness

What is paper ? A 3D object. We have length, width, weight ... we want more. They say in [1]

Bulk or Caliper : The thickness of a single sheet of paper, expressed in points. A point equals 1/1000 inch.

Blanks : Heavyweight boards ranging from 15 to 48 points in thickness, both coated and uncoated. Primarily used for package printing, point-of-purchase displays, poster cards, etc.

To evaluate, Google sez "(15/1 000) inch = 0.381 millimeters". But ... the article is made in such a way that I do not see where to add such info. Any ideas ? Thanks. --DLL 17:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

You can include it under "Preparation of the fibers", in 1.1. The section discusses both the preparation and the end result. If you want to talk about it, you can contact me at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dutchvanilla Dutchvanilla 23:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Paper is discussed by the people who use it. A printer will talk about points, subdivisions of printing type. A merchant will talk about ream caliper, the space it will take up in storage. A trditional bookbinder will not mention the thickness, as good paper is a amorphous web of fibres which has internal air pockets, the colour of the paper is detirmined by these pockets. the binder will press the paper for 3 months in folded sections, prior to sweing, and 2 months after sewing to compress the text block, only then will he measure the paper thickness, before he sets the spine in glue - and covers it with a binding.

Paper Weight

What is paper weight? I have seen that it is measured in lb. Can someone clear this up for me?

gsm = Grams per Square Metre is standard in Europe. US may still use lb. Johnbod 03:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually there's loads on this above Johnbod 03:54, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

contradiction

The caption under the image in "Four great inventions of ancient china" says that Cai Lun is the inventor of paper, while the article "paper" says that this is unlikely, as there is evidence that paper existed several hundered years before Cai Lun was born. In addition, the article "paper" states that the word paper comes from the ancient egyptian "papyrus," and the article "cyperus papyrus" says that this is probably a fok etemology. 208.58.170.134 14:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately contradiction is between articles is pretty common here. I've fixed the Four greatest article's caption to say "widely regarded". The root of the word I have no idea about. Megapixie 17:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Paper may not have been invented by T'Cai Lun, he was the court official who told the emperor about its invention, and thus the man cited with its invention in History 105BCE. Our word for this material is actually tissue, or bark paper. Modern 'Paper' is more like the Arabic invention, inspired by Chinese paper, and comes from the fact that the Greek speaking scholars who first saw a sheet of paper mistook the product to be a new type of Papyrus, (which is in fact a laminate of reed stems, hammered together). Dave Calladine

Standard Paper Sizes

I think it would be informative to have a section about the standard sizes that paper is available in and history about why different sizes are used for different purposes and in different areas (why do Americans use 8 1/2x 11 as standard paper size while Europeans use a different size? why is 'legal paper' longer?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.15.115.165 (talk • contribs) 17:17, 25 September 2006.

Quite so. The article you probably want is at paper size, which is linked from the 'see also' section here. Unfortunately the answers to your questions on why certain paper sizes exist are not very specific. -- Solipsist 17:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Final Section: effect on environment

Can someone figure out how to delete that obnoxiously-written section at the end? I can't find where to change it, and it obviously does not belong in a wikipedia article. Thanks. 8.11.254.162 15:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Olivia

What is the price of paper?

I'm interested in the price of paper, say in dollars per 8 by 11 sheet, or dollars per square meter or something. I've been looking but can't find it. Fresheneesz 19:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I found the price of paper at OfficeMax to be about 1 cent per sheet. Fresheneesz 20:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

cheapest is .5 cents per page

most expensive is 1.3 cents per page Maverick423 22:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Mulberry Paper

Paper made from mulberry trees was created in Korea, not in Japan.

Wrong, Bhuddish monks from India took the idea of the leaf book and Bhuddism into China in Muthabah script on Palm leaves. Then they trained Chinese monks to spread the stutra, and some took Bhuddish ideas on Chinese mulberry paper written in Chinese charachters into Korea. The chinese liked the indian leaf books, so they copied them in paper and silk, creating the concentina book.

These trained Korean Monks, who took the Indian ideas about Bhuddism on Chinese paper, in Korean variations of the chinese concentina books written in Chinese charachters into Japan. The Japanes thanked the Monks by Inventing Printing, and sending back that idea via Korea to China. The Koreans also invented movable type, but the new alphabaet of 98 charachters proved two expensive to manufacture, so It never took off.

New Info Added about China

I just added a bunch of new information on China. God, I can't believe toilet paper was used in China since the 6th century, and not only that, it had quotations from the Five Classics printed on some of them (which was seen by scholar officials to be a disrespectul thing)! Anyways, enjoy the new info!--PericlesofAthens 13:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

reflectivity

What is the range of reflectivity (reflectance) of ordinary white paper? What other tech parameters are used in the trade? This article needs a lot of improvement!-69.87.200.211 12:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

ordinary sheet of paper

The most ordinary sheet of paper in the US in 2000 measures 8.5x11 inches, is sold in reams of 500 sheets, in cases of 10 reams, 20 lb weight, which equals 5 pounds per ream, 50 pounds for the case (net). Made from 100% clear-cut virgin Amazon rain forest, sold in office supply stores for about $25/case, so about half-cent per sheet.

The article should give this kind of basic real-world info. What is the equivalent for Europe? What is the most common sheet of paper for various countries?-69.87.200.211 12:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the Paper size and Paper density articles.

--Anss123 13:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Aging

Paper, i guess especially acid paper, darkens with age. Deserves some discussion, perhaps along with the slow fire coverage in Paper#Nineteenth Century advances in papermaking.
--Jerzy•t 03:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Paper made with mechanical pulp, which retains most of the original lignin from wood, will yellow and degrade with age. Newsprint is a common use for mechanical pulp. Bleached chemical pulp, like fully bleached kraft pulp, makes paper which is light stable and not prone to degradation with age. "Slow fire" resulted from the use of alum (aluminum sulfate) in papermaking. Alum makes the paper acidic (pH approx 4.5), allowing acid hydrolysis of the glycosidic bonds which join glucose units together to make cellulose. I will see what I can do to address these issues in this and related articles. Silverchemist 20:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Papermaking

The article on papermaking is only on the history of papermaking and gives a very brief description about how to make a sheet of paper by hand. There is no point directing anyone to that article for a description of the modern papermaking process. This article does a much better job, although it does need some additional information, for example about beating the pulp to free the fibers before laying down the sheet. Beating is acknowledged as the most important step in papermaking, yet is not even mentioned in the article.Silverchemist 04:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Paper Technology Centre

I removed this - "In 2006, the world's first "Paper Technology Centre" was opened in Heidenheim, Germany, the headquarters of the Voith paper machine company, at the cost of 75 million euros" The reasons:

• It is not the first. Nearly every major paper maker, and supplier to the paper, industry has a technology centre. And many, many of these were established before 2006.
• The removed claim is simple publicity for one company.
• The external link which was supposed to give supporting evidence to the claim does not even mention the centre.