Talk:USA-193

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the USA-193 article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Template:WPSpace

Military history: Aviation / Maritime B‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

B

This article has been rated as B-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military aviation task force
	Maritime warfare task force

decay

Supposedly 328 satellites have decayed in 5 years - this seems rather high. Could he instead mean 328 objects of any type? i.e. rocket boosters, space debris, etc? Evercat (talk) 19:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

removed

Link to n2yo.com removed since their page now contains Wikipedia info, which makes it hard to tell what we got from them and distinguish it from what they got from us. Evercat (talk) 14:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where will it land?

Is there any information about where this is expected to fall? The U.S. military is going to try to shoot it down from the North Pacific, so I assume it's is expected to crash somewhere nearby - also, is it headed east or west? Theshibboleth (talk) 03:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the reason they are firing the missile is that they don't know where it will land, and want to avoid the hydrazine tank dispersing itself over a populated area. I'm only guessing here, but the reason they are firing planning to fire the missile from the North Pacific is that that will be where the satellite is at its lowest in its orbit. Evil Monkey - Hello 05:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The orbit is nearly circular at this time. The tracking assets in the area and the vastness of the ocean are more likely the reasons for the choice of this locale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.244.236 (talk) 02:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect if the hydrazine survives re-entry (which I have strong doubts about) the impact of the incoming fuel tank and associated debris will be a much greater worry for anyone on the ground than the hydrazine itself... Toby Douglass (talk) 10:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not really an ASAT

I suggest we avoid use of the term ASAT - the altitude at which USA 193 will be attacked is much lower than a regular satellite orbit, and the missile they're using probably isn't capable of a real ASAT role. Evercat (talk) 14:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is still being used as such. IMO, it is an ASAT. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 15:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an ASAT, it most likely couldn't take down any functioning satellite. You could say its being modified for a type of ASAT role I suppose. 70.253.128.221 (talk) 15:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is shooting down a satellite. While it is an ABM by design, it has the capability of taking out a satellite, which surely makes it an ASAT. Anything else would be speculative. --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 17:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It wouldn't normally have such capability though - it's only because USA 193 is decaying and at a lower altitude. Evercat (talk) 17:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is still in orbit, though. Do you have a source that it couldn't do this normally? --GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 18:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. I suppose it's conceivable that an SM-3 might have the capability to go even higher. Sources give it's ceiling as "> 160 km" [1]. Evercat (talk) 19:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The nightly news said that the Navy ask the contractor to modify the missile's system, computer, and sensors to reach higher altitudes and satellite proximity. This is to be a one-time modification for this special event. LanceBarber (talk) 06:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the Union of Concerned Scientists page on US ASAT programs: The Aegis-LEAP systems (aka Sea Based Mid Course Defence) "The system that may be fielded in the next few years is called Aegis-LEAP (previously, it was called Navy Theater-Wide Block I), and is intended to intercept missiles with ranges up to 1,000 to 2,000 kilometers. The interceptor consists of a modified version of the anti-aircraft missile used on Aegis cruisers, called the Standard Missile, topped with a Lightweight Exo-Atmospheric Projectile (LEAP) kill vehicle. " [2] That makes this sound a lot like a target of opportunity for an ASAT test. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.95.179.200 (talk) 16:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I really mind any more, but the CNN report at [3] argues that this isn't really a good demonstration of an ASAT. Evercat (talk) 01:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Media leaks

It seems clear enough to me that the initial leak must have been because they expected later to announce something like this (why else would they stoke up so much media interest in an event that's apparently so common?) but I don't have any source I can quote arguing this, alas. Anyone? Evercat (talk) 17:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, [4]. Of course it's fairly obvious you don't just shoot down a satellite, you need some time to decide if it's feasible. Is the date at which preparations began noteworthy? Evercat (talk) 23:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably Feb 21 03:30 UTC

Expect the attempt to occur at the time above: [5]. Evercat (talk) 21:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

De-orbiting explanation necessary

The article needs an explanation of the de-orbiting tactic. Why is the de-orbiting more safe after the satellite explodes? The matter coming back down to earth is the same matter. Why would the satellite come down quicker after an explosion? 12.49.208.69 (talk) 04:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added a quote to explain why. Does this help? -Susanlesch (talk) 04:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It does, thank you. 216.4.147.69 (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

Do we have any evidence that Image:Delta II 7920 launch with NROL-21.jpg shows the launch of USA 193? Superm401 - Talk 06:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There aren't so many launches that this is in any doubt. Numerous sources have confirmed the launch date of the target in question. --Dhartung | Talk 09:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Satellite Destroyed"

I don't know where to go or who to tell, but the headline on the Wikipedia main page which says "Satellite Destroyed" on 21st Feb is not reasonable or accurate. US sources could only confirm that it was HIT. That could be very different to "destroyed", especially if the target fuel tanks are not destroyed.

IceDragon64 (talk) 09:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably right, though at [6] it shows a fireball and a big vapor cloud that (the army guy claims) couldn't have been created by the fuel that was within the missile; therefore it was, he claims, the hydrazine. The main page headline ought to be disclaimed, I agree. 12.49.208.69 (talk) 16:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

North America risk

is it true that US said they would destroy the 193 becuase it might hit North America? Doesn't that imply that they would not bother to destroy their deadly satellite if it were only a risk to the rest of the world?

IceDragon64 (talk) 09:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hydrazine

As I understand it, hydrazine is extremely reactive. I find it incredible that a tank of hydrazine could survive the heat of re-entry. Toby Douglass (talk) 10:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC reports "US officials said without an attempt to destroy the fuel tank, and with the satellite's thermal control system gone, the fuel would now be frozen solid, allowing the tank to resist the heat of re-entry." [7]. The freezing point of hydrazine is 2C at atmospheric pressure (the fuel would have been under pressure in the tank). I find it unlikely that 1000lbs of hydrazine (which would have a huge heat capacity) would have frozen in the tank, given the alternate heating/cooling of close Earth orbit... Fig (talk) 11:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Admittedly, no one I think knows if the satellite is still heating the hydrazine of not, so you could assume for safety that it is not and then act accordingly. However, a freezing point of 2C at 1 bar doesn't tell much when you think about the loss of pressure in high earth atmosphere and the huge frictonal heating that occurs. To be honest, hydrazine is I understand rather reactive - even if frozen solid, I would expect the outer layers to be boiling away on re-entry and I would be amazed if any of it would remain. Toby Douglass (talk) 12:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The cost of the operation"

What operation?

This section isn't a subsection under the "Destruction" section, but probably should be. CapnZapp (talk) 10:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why the name?

What's "USA 193" mean? Is it the 193rd launch of that year or something? 12.49.208.69 (talk) 16:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]