Talk:Normal Bob Smith

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2006-11-20. The result of the discussion was Keep.

The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Normalbobsmith (talk · contribs) / Smith Smith

/Archive 1

Proposals concerning the content of the article

If this side isn't deleted, it will need a lot of work. For one, there are far too many links, common policy is to only have five links. We should go through the mentioned articles and look what can be integrated in the text, and what is too long to be integrated and thus must stay linked. I think it would be nice to have a photo of him, too - if there are public domain photos of him available. Sceptic Watcher 13:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC) Photo available for public use: http://www.normalbobsmith.com/hatemail225_me.jpg[reply]

I have worked on this side. If it isn't deleted, it should be more suitable now. Sceptic Watcher 13:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some changes to make it less arbitrary and more factual... what do you think?

Thank you, this is a lot better than my version - it's obvious that you are a native speaker, which I'm unfortunately not. Sceptic Watcher 11:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could the person who gave the link to the photo please add the relevant information? As it is now, it will be deleted on the 29th because I didn't provide the source etc. This is neccessary if the photo is to be used. Sceptic Watcher 11:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Using the word "clad" is silly for a wikipedia entry, in my opinion. Also, starting a sentence with because?! Wrong, wrong, wrong.--128.232.247.173 22:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC) I went and fixed those grammar issues myself. nobs 03:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ref. 7,000 hate mails: (Vacation's end, 2nd paragraph) --Djudge 22:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct, Djudge. It was a loose estimate but you may insert it back if you think it's worth mentioning. It seemed trivial to me. nobs 04:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

This article needs more sources, particularly for the tenuously NPOV first half, which pointedly describes Smith's views. There are already some citations used in the article; these should be converted to proper citation format (I have fixed one as an example; please add the |accessdate= parameter to your citations, e.g. today's date is fine). As external links are converted to proper citations they should be removed per WP:EL. --Dhartung | Talk 08:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Real Name?

After an hour of searching I can't find his real name. I figured it is Robert something Smith but I can't find out what. It would help this article especially the introduction if it was known. Aiden Fisher 10:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do to the nature of my work I would prefer to not have my full name published. Feel free to email me if you've got any specific questions I can answer that would make this page more efficient bob@normalbobsmith.com . I will no longer edit this page if that's what is preferred. nobs 12:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

So far as I can tell, there's nothing particularly notable about the subject of the article. It seems the only thing he's done is think up a witty criticism of religion, which people in chat rooms do on an hourly basis. Anyone have a reason this guy is more notable than, say, one of the legions of obscure webcomics that get deleted? 72.195.189.98 (talk) 07:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like him either, but his Jesus Dress Up dolls sparked a considerable wave of controversy when they first came out.--CyberGhostface (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

STOP ADDING HIS "NAME"

The subject has never revealed his name, so it's highly unlikely that the name "Robert Hain" is anything more than a fabrication. Because there is no proof of his birth name, all supposed "names" should be excluded from the article.

Until there is proof, KEEP IT OUT! It is not difficult for someone to check your facts by emailing the artist.

If you do find proof of his real name remember that, due to the nature of his work and the relatively large amount of death threats he has received, his safety might be at risk if his name is revealed to billions of people.--Darbyshmr (talk) 21:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to WHOIS, his name is indeed Robert Hain. --CyberGhostface (talk) 22:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thank you. Normal Bob Smith's life may be in danger, but at least we know what to put in his obituary. /hyperbole

But seriously, when the subject has received several pages of hate mail (coming up on 400), half or more of which is death threats from religious extremists, I think the less places his personal info appears the better. I'm sure if he could hide the info you cited, he would. But, as far as I know, WHOIS can't be changed..

--Darbyshmr (talk) 01:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I hardly think his life is in danger since he's made a number of public appearences. If he was really worried for his life his photo wouldn't be pasted all over his website. I think religious extremists have a lot more on their minds right now than juvenile cartoons drawn by a man who dresses up like the devil.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, they're too busy trying to find those bastards who drew cartoons and dress normally! --Darbyshmr (talk) 02:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not censored. I'm sure lots of celebrities would like information withdrawn from Wikipedia, but we don't.--CyberGhostface (talk) 02:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And just because some people don't like seeing so-called "shock sites" doesn't mean we should keep censor the "goatse" article and the like, correct? If the goatse mirrors ever die why not put the picture in the wikipedia article?--208.189.34.32 (talk) 20:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain how posting an image of a man opening his anus is even comparable to posting an internet personality's real name.--CyberGhostface (talk) 21:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An image of the subject is unimportant now? What difference does it make what the image is of as long as it is relevant to the article?--71.158.220.74 (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notice: WHOIS no longer displays the name of Bob Smith. Please do not cite this as a reference, and do not add his name without further evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darbyshmr (talk • contribs) 22:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriateness of the name

The question of the use of the subject's name has been raised at BLPN. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name omitted

From now on I will be removing his name unless something happens to make me think differently.

The following is what has convinced me to continue removing the subject's name at his request:

From WP:BLP, "Biographies of living persons (BLPs) must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is 'do no harm'."

Unless he changes his mind, or his name becomes more well known (thus becoming more relevant), I will make sure his name no longer appears in this article. Darbyshmr (talk) 22:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like you all to remember his hate mail also consists of numerous death threats. Yes, he has made several appearances in public, but so has Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Her threats are far worse, far more sincere, and far more numerous; yet she also has made many public appearances. Point being: making your self noticeable doesn't lower your chances of being killed.--Darbyshmr (talk) 22:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how using sourced information from a NY Times article counts as adding "sensationalist...titillating claims about people's lives" to the article. If it was just some blog that would be another point entirely. The guy's posted several photos and videos of himself. There's at least one on youtube that he made sans makeup. If he's truly fearful for his life and living in seclusion, he's got a funny way of showing it. And furthermore, a consensus has yet to be reached at the noticeboard. --CyberGhostface (talk) 23:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We obviously will never agree on this. And because I'm so much slower on the draw than you have been, I guess waiting for a conclusion from the noticeboard is the best solution.--Darbyshmr (talk) 23:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well...after thinking about it, as much as I don't care for NBS, I'd feel crummy if something did happen to him based on my edits. So I'll ask it to be unprotected, revert the changes for the time being and wait for a consensus to be drawn. Does that sound fair for now?--CyberGhostface (talk) 23:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thank you very much. While on the subject, should the Art Institute of Colorado entry be omitted until there is a reference? I thought it should, but I'm not sure if is OK since (I think) he put it in himself.Darbyshmr (talk) 00:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll put a cite tag on it and remove it in a week if nothing happens.--CyberGhostface (talk) 00:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did add the Art School info a year ago or so, and I'd prefer it remained if that's enough of a citation. nobs (talk) 03:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]