Talk:Walther P38

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might I suggest the application of template:weapon-firearm to this article. GraemeLeggett 10:39, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You know theres something wrong with an article when it's section "X in fiction" is longer than its description.68.161.8.117 21:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pulling Childrens Section per Wikipedia Standards.

--81.197.218.62 20:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WTf??  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 02:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Walther P38 in fiction

The TV series The Man from U.N.C.L.E. featured a Walther P38 modified with a stock, suppressor, and scope. This was released as a toy, and the design formed the basis of the popular Transformers character Megatron (see below). A latera, silver Microman toy edition was branded the MC-13 U.N.C.L.E., likely a reference to the show.

The Transformers character Megatron's first toy form is based on the Walther P38. Although the Megatron toy is very accurately shaped like a Walther P38, it is only about 85%-90% of the size of a real Walther P38, and obviously much lighter, considering the lack of bullets or a firing mechanism. The mold was taken from Takara's Japanese Microman line, released both the same as Megatron (without Decepticon emblems) and in black and brown without the attachments. These attachments include a scope, stock, and silencer. The Microman versions, as well as all recent Japanese reissues, include an internal firing mechanism which "fires" plastic bullets(the Hasbro versions excluded the firing pin), as well as a sword accessory. Another key visual difference between the toy and the gun is the slot behind the barrel to load these bullets.

The Walther P38 is the preferred weapon of Lupin III.

The game No One Lives Forever features a suppressed P.38 manufactured by the fictional Shepherd Arms company.

In The Manchurian Candidate, Frank Sinatra hands a P38 to a fellow soldier, who shoots one of their best friends.

Indiana Jones uses a P38 to shoot through three Nazis at point-blank range in the tank chase in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
In the 2005 movie "Munich", the Walther P38 is the handgun of choice of most PLO operatives and terrorists.

Removal of fictional appearances in Walther P38

User:Asams10 reverted my readdition of fictional appearances of the Walther P38, citing a consensus of firearm articles. Can I see this consensus, please? Also, another firearm article, by the same manufacturer even, prominently says the Walther PPK is James Bond's weapon of choice. Are we talking about the ornithologist here, or are some fictional appearances better than others? Doesn't it seem to against this consensus when any fictional appearances of the Walther PPK that I removed are immediately put back? JIP | Talk 07:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The wikiproject:weaponry decided in order for a fictional appearance to be considered noteworthy and thus be included, it must be well known, and have made a difference in the eye of the public. For example, everyone knows about the Walther PPK. Why? Because the famous spy James Bond uses it. Everyone loves the F-14. Why? Because everyone saw it in Top Gun. But a brief appearance in a movie, especially without mention of what it is, generally is not very notable.--LWF 15:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So the fact that Megatron, one of the most central characters (the second most central, I think) in the G1 Transformers toyline that has had such enormous success in the US, Europe, and Japan, that people are still making comics, movies, and commemorative toys from it almost 20 years after the toyline's end, transforms into a Walther P38 is only insignificant trivia, along the lines of a Walther P38 showing for 0.1 seconds in the lower left corner in Scream XXVIII? JIP | Talk 17:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not significant in the LEAST to the Walther P38. While it may be significant to individuals (usually it's somebody who first learned of it in a game or movie), it is neither encyclopediec nor is it worth noting in an encyclopedia. LWF made the point about the PPK and the F-14. Another firearm example is the S&W Model 29 44 Magnum and its association with the Dirty Harry movies and Clint Eastwood. The primary question should be asked; would the average user be be able to identify what Megatron was let alone know what gun is represented by the toy this toy is carrying? Further, has something about the gun been significantly effected by this toy depiction? The answer is clear to me.--Asams10 18:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your idea of "clear" and my idea of "muddy" seem about the same to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.162.192.39 (talk) 02:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Broadly speaking, the question is whether there's a cultural impact on the P38; in other words, is the P38 iconic because Megatron transforms into it? Would someone seeing a P38 associate it with Megatron, in other words?

Somewhat more to the point, do you have a (reputable) cite for the gun Megatron transforms into actually being a P38? Kirill Lokshin 18:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have to address the questions eeparatedly. Whereas I think Megatron is very famous across the US, Europe, and Japan, I don't think the Walther P38 is famous because Megatron transforms into one. OTOH, I do think it is clear that Megatron does transforms into one. From looking at photographs of Megatron in gun mode and a real Walther P38, it should be clear to anyone, for example me (very knowledgeable in G1 Transformers but an utter layman in real-world firearms) that Megatron's gun mode is modelled after the Walther P38. I am certain there are specific documents that flat-out state Megatron is designed after the Walther P38, but unfortunately I think these are restricted to Takara (who created the Megatron toy in the first place) and Hasbro (who made it into the Megatron character). However, I understand the contrast to James Bond and the Walther PPK. You only have to see Doctor No to see how the weapon master tells Bond to replace his Beretta (which he fondly used in earlier adventures, by Fleming) with a Walther PPK, specifically mentioned. On the other hand, throughout the entire Transformers series, notwithstanding its own huge cultural impact, the Walther P38 is never mentioned. JIP | Talk 20:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The toy says P38 on it...

Ah, ok. I suspect that Megatron is actually a non-standard P38 (it looks like it has a peculiar silencer, for one thing), so the connection isn't mentioned too much in public materials.

As far as the "iconicness" of it, I think we're pretty much talking about the same thing. While Megatron per se is notable, the fact that he's modeled specifically after the P38 probably isn't all that well-known; so discussing Megatron as representing the cultural impact of the P38 itself isn't really appropriate (as people don't generally realize the connection between the two). Kirill Lokshin 20:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to have to interject here that if this is significant - and I have no clue because I know NOTHING about the transformer toys - it is only significant to the toy. The firearm may have influenced the toy, however that influence is only worth mention in the toy article. There are notable exceptions to this rule as in the above mentioned examples, however it's generally true that the firearm is depicted because of the popularity of the firearm, not the other way around.--Asams10 21:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of my main beefs with Wikipedia and its editors. People sit around all day milling over what is and is not "relevant" information to an article so they can justify their usage of this site somehow(neverminding people who will pull info because no source is cited even if such info is either common knowledge or just apparent to anyone with at least 1 functioning brain cell). If it's not relevant, fine. But at least come to some better reason why rather than "I need to justify my position here and editing info is my life". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.162.192.39 (talk) 02:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Well said! I agree completely.69.216.98.105 04:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, this is absolutely ridiculous. Megatron is one of the most iconic characters in western fiction from the 1980s. The fact that he's a P38 is not just of relevance to "the toy". It is one of the best known uses of the P38 gun in fiction. Just because they never mentioned it - so what? I wouldn't be surprised if they DID mention it in the comic, actually, as that went into more detail. More people will recognise this weapon because of the fact that Megatron turns into it. Anyone who had the toy as a kid or has watched or read Transformers lately would be likely to say "Hey, that's Megatron!". Some pathetic morons just like to get off on calling things "irrelevant". I agree with the above comment entirely. The fact that a main character in one of the most successful franchises ever WAS a Walther P-38 is not notable is the most ridiculous lump of shit I've ever heard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.134.162.35 (talk) 21:35, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering what happened to the cultural references list...to be honest, the only significant difference between the James Bond reference and the Megatron reference that the latter was never said to be a P-38 onscreen or in the comics, just in his toy profile, although he *might* have been recognizable by appearance. But I also agree that this kinda nitpicking is ridicilous. Who are *you* to decide what's significant and what isn't? Megatron certainly didn't make "just a brief appearance on the screen". --Takeshi357 15:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, you've made 7 edits on Wikipedia before you made this post. You did not edit firearms articles. Firearms articles are probably not your strengh. If megatron is this important to you, write pages of prose about it under the 'megatron' article and leave the gun article alone.--Asams10 16:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some cultural references are appropriate and others aren't. Is it notable? Biotron or Mergatroid or whatever may be recognizable to a large part of a certain age group of kids, but seriously, it has nothing to do with the gun itself. Mattel may have made the Dick Tracy Rootin' Tootin' Tommy Gun in the '50s, and a lot of former kids may remember it, but there's no reason to mention it in the article on Thompson submachine gun. I'm not in favor of including it in Walther P38. Twalls 23:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You ... that comment was infuriating! It would take a true fool to pass off transformers fans as "a certain age group of kids," to say nothing of UNCLE and Lupin III. I came to this article SPECIFICALLY to read about the gun's appearances in fiction. Non-fictional aspects of guns are irrelevant and what's more BORING. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 02:21, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, glad to see my comment had an impact. As I clearly state, some cultural references might be relevant, but just because Mecha-Tron's head looks like a Walther P38 is no reason to gum up this article. You got your opinion across, but I can't say you've presented a good or convincing argument for that position. If you want to see the fictional appearances of the P38, look at the top of this page and in archived versions of the article. Hey, wasn't there a separate article on that once? Twalls 18:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll say it once more. Fiction is a lot more relevant than reality. You clearly have your priorities wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 05:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh Really? So we should replace everything that is relevant to the P38 with fiction that has absolutely nothing to do with it? You, my friend, seriously need to turn off the Sci-Fi channel for a while. — DanMP5 14:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of Technical information

How come this article doesn't feature anything technical about the pistol itself aside from a brief mention of the very significant fact that it is one of the first (if not the first) DA/SA pistols in the world? It also features a fixed barrel,the distinction being very important when discussing mechanical differences between Browning and non-Browning pistol designs. There seems to be significantly more interest in it's transformer incarnation among you nerds than the real thing. Why don't you put the garbage about the transformer in the wiki-toys section and concentrate on the actual firearm in this section.

You have a good point, and I'll make an effort to add that information. And by the way, the lack is probably because it can be difficult to find information on certain guns.--LWF 02:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Page move

Does anyone mind if I move the page to Walther P38, without a space between the P and 38? It is how I've usually seen it written, and it's how it is in the article.--LWF 03:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For -- It's supposed to be P38.

I've made the move.--LWF 14:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What about FG 42, MG 34 and MP 3008? Shouldn't they be made the same?--Sus scrofa 15:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Walther P1

Walther P1 redirects to this article. Could someone add an explaination about the difference in the two? Could a P1 section be added? --Kalmia 09:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The P1 employs essentially the same mechnanisms as the P38, but its frame is made of aluminium (rather than hardened steel). The West German Police tested both weapons and chose the P1 - although it has a lesser life span (in terms of rounds fired) than the P38, it is significantly lighter. Since the police did not envisage combat-level useage, the weight difference was a decisive factor. Glock won the lion's share of the US Police handgun market on similar grounds - though there is no real loss of lifespan in the case of that family of weapons despite their 'plastic' construction.

Some of the internal parts of the P1 and post-war P38 are not interchangeable with original wartime P38 parts.

Mention should also be made of the P4 - a variant with a much-shortened barrel which was chiefly intended for Police use.

Fair use rationale for Image:Walter 938.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]