Talk:Joe Torre

Torre and the Mitchell report

(moved to proper location)

STOP deleting this post about Torre --

"Although Manager Torre was not referenced in the Mitchell Report, released in December of 2007, the results certainly cast a shadow over his long standing tenure as the Yankees Manager. Between unsealed affidavits and the Mitchell Report findings, ten Yankees were noted as steriod or HGH users, which was far more than any other baseball team."

The FACT that the Yanks on the watch of Manager Torre had far and away the most players using illegal substance (roids and hgh) is relevant to his wiki overview. It speaks to the character and management style as year after year he turned the other way while player after player (e.g. clemens, justice, giambi, pettitte, sheffield to name just a few) used performance enhancing drugs. i am not a met or bosox fan..i am a fan of the game. by turning a blind eye torre has tarnished the game and the yankees organization. this lowlight of this career has been covered and questioned in every major new york newspaper from the post and the daily news to the times and needs to be recognized as part of his past, whether you love st. joe or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murphy9977 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place for you to put your opinion on Torre's character and management style. Criticism of him is only acceptable if legitimate sources are provided to back up the statements. Spanneraol (talk) 18:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC

Spanneraol -- this is not an opinion on Joe Torre it is a fact and his management style is completely relevant daaaaaaaaaa because he is a MANAGER. It is clear you lack any objectivity and ask politely you seize touching relevant and factual posts. If you would like to have your own Torre definition feel free.

Saying "this casts a shadow over Torre" is an opinion, not a fact. If he knew or did not know of the steroid abuse is a matter of opinion and doesnt belong here unless you can source it. Spanneraol (talk) 20:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The posting has numerous opinions such as "hard-nosed demeanor helped ease the transition among fans" or "team is now widely regarded as one of the greatest baseball teams" the fact is he had far away the most players using performance enhancing drugs and should be noted within his profile. do you want me to cite the ny times, ny post and the other ny papers who have all highlighted questions about his leadership as a manager that's fine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murphy9977 (talk • contribs) 03:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

How Torre's record as a manager and successes (or lack thereof) was created is definitely of factual relevance. If he had steroid users (or even supposed users to the number cited) then it is part of his legacy as a manager. It's not just opinion, it's fact. Do you think information on Barry Bonds should be removed as to the steroid scandal he is in? Roger Clemens? Fact: Torre's teams have been cited in the steroid scandal that has rocked baseball. Fact: he presided over the teams the entire time. Fact: He never said anything to anyone (right or wrong). What's opinion about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.244.191.34 (talk) 13:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Some players on Torre's teams have been mentioned as being involved.... Torre himself has not and claiming that he knew or was involved somehow is pure conjecture. This isn't a blog, we don't pass judgement or provide critical analysis. 14:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You would have to say that presiding over a team that is well-known for the steroid scandal is biographical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by

Not claiming involvement or knowing is conjecture...what are you kidding me? Joe T ran that club house for over ten years and a large # of his stars were using roids and hgh....more than any other team by far. The fact that the Yanks won as much as they did, which is highlighted all through his bio makes this completely relevant to his story. Do you know what HGH and steroids are....that would be performance enhancing drugs. Leaving this FACT off his bio is like talking about the 1919 World Series and not mentioning the Black Sox scandal.

Wknight94 - please top deleting factual information about Manager Torre and stop with these patronizing everyone with assertions about speaking ill of someone living. FACT Joe T had enormous success with Yanks --FACT he did with players like Roger Clemens, David Justice, Gary Sheffield, Jose (YES) Canseco, Andy P and the list goes on. No Manager had more players players using roids and HGH than him- FACT!!!! He is a good guy but as a Manager this is part of his record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murphy9977 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Joe Torre succesfully looked the other way as he tallied more players in the Mitchell Report than any other manager. Between the Mitchell report and unsealed affidavits filed by law enforcement officials, the count has reached 10, including Clemens, Denny Neagle and Jason Grimsley. Others named included Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton and David Justice, but the use for which they are cited occurred after the 2000 World Series 66.244.191.34 (talk) 15:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Spannerol STOP changing factual posts..--- ENOUGH ALREADY - Murph

Torre and All-Star coaches

I've moved this paragraph here because it doesn't seem to have much relevance on a biography of Joe Torre. Maybe it could be factored into the New York Yankees page somehow.

It is also worth noting that the Yankees of 2006 boast an "All-Star" coaching staff which has had a noticably positive effect on the team (especially when one considers the number of young, inexperienced players on the team). Only Torre and third year Hitting Coach Don Mattingly remain from the 2005 coaching staff. Ron Guidry was hired as pitching coach, Tony Peña as first base coach, Larry Bowa as third base coach, Joe Kerrigan as bullpen coach and Lee Mazzilli as bench coach. Guidry and Mattingly (who, as players, were both career Yankees) were each among the most skilled in the major leagues at the respective positions during their playing days- Guidry was a dominant pitcher and Mattingly was an MVP caliber hitter. All of the other coaches are former managers. Peña managed the Kansas City Royals, Bowa managed the Philadelphia Phillies and San Diego Padres, Kerrigan managed the Boston Red Sox and Mazilli managed the Baltimore Orioles. In addition, Bowa has been praised by Yankee players for his dedication in helping young players improve their fielding abilities.

—Cleared as filed. 17:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This would make an interesting addition to the New York Yankees article, but serves no real purpose in the article about Torre. ELH50 10:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I also agree.Quadzilla99 07:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Session on Early Life / Life History

Session on Early Life / Life History ??

Firing

I heard on a news report that he was fired. Crazy Canadian 16:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Hmm, were you reading the Early Edition? Cumulus Clouds 04:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed opinionated headline:

Fire Joe! He is about as effective as a loaf of bread. He has done a great job, but it is time to go Joe. I cannot believe Steinbrenner has not concluded that this season is going down the drain and major change is needed. By major change, I mean, its time for Joe to go.

Removed for a host of violations

I removed the following:

Torre however has taken some deserved criticism the past several years for his inability to get a talent-laden roster to another World Championship. He wrongly used Jeff Weaver, who was terrible all season and hadn't pitched in over 2 weeks, in extra innings of Game 4 of the 2003 World Series against Florida over the Yankees best reliever Mariano Rivera. Weaver went on to give up the game-winning home run to Alex Gonzalez. The Yankees didn't win another game in the series and lost in 6 games. In the 2004 ALCS against Boston, he failed to stop his team from blowing a 3-0 series lead to Boston. His insistence on not running on Tim Wakefield in the 13th inning of Game 5 (an inning in which two Yankees reached base, and Boston catcher Jason Varitek committed two passed balls) and his refusal to let his players bunt on an injured Curt Schilling in Game 6 are fair criticisms. His 2006 team also completely fell apart in Games 3 and 4 against the Detroit Tigers in the ALDS. As of June 24th, his 2007 talent-laden team continues to underachieve at 36-37 and remains far out of the division race.

While a great number of the criticisms are valid, they don't belong in an encyclopedia article unless the sources are cited -- the text as-is reads as an anti-Torre screed thinly veiled in a cloak of "objectivity" with weasel words like "has taken some deserved criticism". There are a lot of forums for expressing opinions about baseball; I suggest Baseball Think Factory or Bronx Banter, among a whole host of others. Thanks. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 09:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that should have been removed because of its POV wording. Still, I think there is ample reason to create a Criticism section if it is cited well.Arnabdas 16:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for protection

Please protect this page against the flood of users who will attempt to change Torre's status without official word from Yankees management. Thank you. Cumulus Clouds 04:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO 68.36.214.143 15:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Haha above IP user! Too bad for you! :P 128.113.228.214 01:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

You people on wikipedia really get me...I don't understand why you need like "official" proof if all things point to it and A FRIGGIN PRESS CONFERENCE FROM JOE TORRE SAYING HE'S NO LONGER A YANKEE to change colors. EmperorNero 19:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

What about criticism about his not being involved further in any steroid issues? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.244.191.34 (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Original Research

I checked the history page and it has been tagged with the original research tag since September 2006, not September 2007. Who agrees that that section is original research? User:Enlightenedment, 1:07, 11 October 2007.

Hey

According to the Mike and the Mad Dog conference call, Joe Torre has turned down the offer. Put up them gray colors! EmperorNero 20:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Atlanta Braves colors

I'd assume its just to avoid confusion right? 67.87.184.150 14:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Change request

{{editprotected}}

Following sentence has grammar problems: Torre appeared in Sesame Street when he was brought by Baby Bear and help Telly to catch a ball. Then, when he was walking back to a Yankees game, he threw the ball back to Telly, and he caught it.

I suggest: Torre appeared in Sesame Street when he was brought by Baby Bear to help Telly catch a ball. Then, when he was walking back to a Yankees game, he threw the ball back to Telly, who caught it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.101.111 (talk) 20:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

 Done Tra (Talk) 21:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Dodgers

when will the picture and color be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.233.32.17 (talk) 20:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

More Mitchell Report nonsense

(I'm moving discussion down here where it's supposed to be. We don't write from the bottom-up...)

I've re-reverted the Mitchell Report nonsense from this article for a simple reason: I just looked up the Mitchell Report and Torre's name is only in there once ---- for releasing Brian McNamee! McNamee then came into contact with Roger Clemens in Toronto, not in New York! There is no connection specified in that report between Torre and any players. I don't know if Torre ran over your dog or what, but stop trying to trash him here when you have no evidence at all. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)