Talk:Erie Canal

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Idle Title

I added an appropriate title. For7thGen 23:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone else find the part about homosexuals building canals to be a bit...speculative? --Er 04:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment, these two sections contradict each other:

Although the canal was first proposed in 1869 it was not commenced preperations for building. [in the introduction]

and

\

Can anyone clear up the confusion? (I doubt that Jessie Hawley had the idea and then waited nearly a century to share it with Ellicott ;)]. fabiform | talk 20:47, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"a series of legislation renamed the Barge Canal back to the Erie Canal, and its use was restricted to recreational traffic."

It's still used to carry barges occasionally. I don't know the status of the legislation, though. - Omegatron July 4, 2005 16:04 (UTC)

Jesse Hawley

The influence of Jesse Hawley on the building of canal is fairly controversial, and not at all as direct as the current information in the entry would imply. The Hawley question (indeed, the whole issue over "who" came up with the idea and promoted the building of the canal) ought to be treated in a little more depth.

Lock and crossing listing

I have created a table to list all 34 locks, their locations, and lift.

Crossings were temporarily removed as the list was incomplete and unverifiable.

I have the code to replace crossings if anyone feels it is of value and would like to reinsert it.

Where'd My Work Go?

Gee, I spent a lot of time adding pages about the Erie Canal locks. I had pages for Locks E1 - E13, with photos, text, and a template on each page, with more work to do. Now they aren't even listed in the "Pages in category "Erie Canal"". My old link just redirects me to the main page. I see the Erie Canal crossings "Bridges" pages are still listed. The table with the lock lift doesn't give you much of a sense for what the locks look like or what's around them or the history involved. I'd be pleased to see that reinserted, otherwise I'd feel like all my time was spent for nothing. HCO. ([[User:128.113.107.4|128.113.107.4}})

If they were free-standing articles, it's possible they were deleted (in which case an administrator can probably recover them). Otherwise, it's possible they were moved (renamed), but in that case, an automatic redirect from old name (your chosen name) to the new name should have been created. If your work was an edit to an already-existing page, take a look at the page's "history" and see if you can find your work. Atlant 17:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They were all redirected per an AfD discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erie Canal Locks. Actually, the consensus was "merge and redirect," but no one has merged them yet. It's on my to-do list, but feel free to msg me if you want to get started on it.--Chaser T 22:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Clarification

My congratulations to people who contributed to such a good article.

However, in the section Competition, its 3rd (and longest) paragraph ends with the words "; it (the Erie Canal) continued to compete well with the railroads through 1882, when tolls were abolished."
It's as though the (canal) tolls being abolished in 1882 had stopped the canal's competing well with the railroads. This does not make sense. If I were trying to clear it up, I would first verify that the railroads had charges which were NOT called tolls, while the canal charges WERE called tolls. If I'm wrong and the correct wording really is "when the railroad tolls were abolished", then please just insert the word railroad and the matter will be closed. My thanks to whomever knows about railroad tolls vs. canal tolls and clarifies the text. For7thGen 22:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate photos

The photo of Lock 32 at Pittsford is a nice one, but I question whether it should be duplicated in this entry for two different captions.

Tree stump puller diagram

The "tree stump puller" in the diagram seems unlikely. The horses are pulling a rope attached to an axel that is smaller in diameter than the wheel to which the chain is attached. If I understand the mechanics of it, this would make it harder to pull out the stump than simply attaching the rope to the stump directly. The diagram is also a rough pencil sketch. Is someone able to comment on the authenticity and suitability of the diagram? modify 13:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Canal Section Terminus Error?

In the fourth paragraph of the Construction section, the canal's Eastern Section is described as running "from Rochester to Albany". I believe this should instead be "from Utica to Albany", since Rochester lies along the Western Section, between Syracuse and Buffalo. Thus:

Western Section - Buffalo to Syracuse MIddle Section - Syracuse to Utica Eastern Section - Utica to Albany

The canal profile diagram, which is referenced in the article, seems to indicate that Montezuma is the demarkation between the Western and Middle Sections. However, I cannot find confirmation of this and the Construction section is rather specific in describing Syracuse as this point of transition. Brooks.Peters 17:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalization in section headings

See [1] which says it's not "Capitalization in Section Headings." Jim.henderson 03:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

West Shore Railroad

Interesting, that some anonymous editor thinks this particular railroad should not be mentioned, who keeps knocking it out and being reverted, and who hints at exasperation in his edit comments. He keeps on logging in from different addresses. Yet, neither he nor the rest of us have mentioned this persistent, sporadic, clueless but perhaps well meaning activity on the talk page. Anyway, here's his opportunity to discuss the question. Jim.henderson 06:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stuffed

2 things. First, the first ship (?) to transit the Canal was allegedly Seneca Chief. Verify & include? Second, & hinted at, was the economic effect: it moved the financial capital of the U.S. from Philadelphia to NYC. Verify & include? Trekphiler 12:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Seneca Chief was the name of the ceremonial boat that Gov. Clinton rode on during the Grand Celebration. I don't know if it was really the "first" boat to transit. Keep in mind that most of the Erie Canal was open and in use by boats before October 1825. They just finished the last segment that year. -A user

Tense issue

Last sentence of third paragraph in first section reads, "...in 1817, Clinton was successful in convinced the New York State legislature..."

Should say, "...convincing..."

Onondaga Escarpment - not Niagara - from Canastota to Rochester

In the Section "The Route", "Onondaga Escarpment" should be substituted for "Niagara Escarpment", as the Niagara's eastern terminus is at Rochester. So, "From Canastota west it ran roughly along the north (lower) edge of the Onondaga Escarpment, passing through Syracuse[....]"

No doubt some text could be added to introduce the Niagara from Rochester to Buffalo, as the Niagara scarp/Lockport locks story is critical to the article.TrevorX 03:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When barges crossed

In the "History" section, it says "When barges crossed there was a quick unhitching and re-hitching of the draft animal teams while the barges continued due to momentum." This should say something like, "When barges crossed under bridges there was a quick...." I'm only newly registered, so I'm not allowed to make this change. Will someone authorized please make this correction? Awillmore 01:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been clarified by someone, by instead adding, "With only one towpath for traffic in both directions, when barges crossed...." This is now accurate, whereas my suggestion above was not! Thanks. Awillmore 16:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome and yeah, I should have mentioned it. Personal inspection helps. I've never seen the Erie Canal but a couple years ago I bicycled 50 miles along the Delaware Canal, which has a towpath, and the Delaware & Raritan Canal which (in that part) doesn't. Slippery erosion under a bridge nearly dumped me into one of the locks of the DC, while the D&R posed no such hazard. The experience helped me understand 19th century canal operations in general. One of these days I have to take railroad trips to the Erie and to New Brunswick to inspect and bike their respective canals and confirm that their towpaths were laid out the same way. Oh! I haven't checked the Wikipedia articles of the canals I've seen! Jim.henderson 00:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finch 1925 account of Erie Canal upon 100th anniversary

I just came across the Finch account at "THE STORY OF THE NEW YORK STATE CANALS GOVERNOR DEWITT CLINTON'S DREAM" by Roy Finch, 1925, and have added it into the article as an external link for now. Perhaps it has interesting material and can be used as a reference in the main text. It is semi-official, being written by a state employee and being provided at a State website. doncram (talk) 18:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did the 4/11/08 edit

I got timed-out before saving.

So I sign it here.

--24.148.0.125 (talk) 01:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Holley, NY Erie Canal Spur

An oft neglected portion of the Erie Canal concerns the, what I call, the Holley Spur. I don't know when it was created to link downtown Holley, NY to the main canal but from what I have seen (having personally lived in Holley for the better part of twenty-one years) of its remnants, it certainly is worth a historical look. The is a map of Holley circa 1900 in the Holley library which shows this spur at it's height! I have look at the map (it is in the librarians office) and am constantly held in wonder at it's (the spurs) design.

 In the 1990s from what I gather having talked with Mr. Ron Vendetti, who put for a lot of effort into his work, and having seen a good portion of it's results, work was started to highlight this spur.  And in the 1990s a portion of the walking trail was dedicated by an ancestor of Dewitt Clinton.
 Though Holley is small, the history of this spur and it's existence should engender more study of this spur which was created due to the unique geology of having a ravine pass right through the heart of the Village.
 I hope this spurs (all puns intended) more study of this Erie spur which I feel is quite unique in relation to the Erie Canal.
 (----)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stryderbill (talk • contribs) 09:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Refimprove tag and/or downratings of this article

I reverted a refimprove tag and downrating of this article, in favor of discussion here. This is a high profile article, used by many students i believe based on the freuency of random changes to it. I think it harms the article and the readers' experience to have a tag that just tars it, without explanation. If there are improvements to be made to the article, please make them, or make specific suggestions here, please. doncram (talk) 08:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While I respect your revert, I feel that nine inline citations (each used only once) is far from enough to promote to B status and a {{refimprove}} is more than necessary. And I don't think referencing a reader's experience is enough to claim non-usage of the tag. That would be like saying if Barack Obama were deficient in references, no tag should be used because it doesn't look pretty. Number 1 of the six B-Class criteria requires suitable referencing and while it does not label a number of references per length of an article, this article sure could use more. This article can very much benefit from additional source and it's my experience that these tags help secure them. ~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk^stalk» 15:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Erie Basin

How come there is no mention of the Eastern Terminus of the Erie Canal, otherwise known as Erie Basin. It was built in Brooklyn to function as the eastern transfer point between the canal and ocean going transport, and as a central terminal for canal access to Long Island. It still exists, although it has recently been converted from industrial transportation to commercial, residential and Recreational use. SSG Cornelius Seon (US Army, Retired) (talk) 16:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Advocacy by Robert Fulton for the canal

See Cadwallader D. Colden (1817). The Life of Robert Fulton. New York: Kirk & Mercein. pp. 275–299. OCLC 123163823. Colden reprints Fulton's exchange of letters with the governor explaining the economics of the proposed canal.LeadSongDog come howl 21:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]