User talk:Doncram

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Contents

The Gauntlet of Peace Prize[edit]

The Gauntlet of Peace Prize
Very amusing, thanks! That was from editor Carptrash. --doncram 16:09, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

law firms in Africa[edit]

Hi Doncram, just wondering if you have seen this: User:Purple Duke/sandbox2. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!, Ottawahitech, for calling that to my attention. In this version now, it has not been edited by South African editor User:Purple Duke since 2012 besides by your addition just now, and it appears to be mainspace-ready or nearly so. To go to ALN (law firm) or ALN (South African law firm network) or the like (and to be mentioned at ALN (disambiguation). This relates to List of law firms in Africa (now inappropriately a redirect to a U.S.-only list, and there was Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms (2nd nomination) in 2006, which reached perhaps-okay-then-but-fundamentally-wrong delete decision) and List of law firms in Uganda (and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive840#Promoting_Ugandan_law firms and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of law firms in Uganda which deleted it) and individual-firm AFDs a couple years ago that you and I participated in. It's good to get back to this area, it was and is very under-developed. When I get a chance I will look into checking and perhaps updating this article and more, and/or please go ahead further yourself.
Hmm, to ensure credit is given where due, in getting the article into mainspace, should the sandbox itself be moved to mainspace? I think so, so that the creation and development in edit history is retained, but maybe administrative tool use is required to handle this right (to include just the relevant part of sandbox's edit history). I see the author previously used the sandbox to develop another article that they copy-pasted into mainspace and then blanked and reused it. Presumably they would have copy-pasted this too, when ready, to mainspace , and by their doing so would get the creation "credit" properly then. Hmm, I see the author did edit a South African law firm's page on one day in 2016, and in December 2015 was editing at Big Five (law firms) in South Africa. Perhaps we/I should try contacting them by email to see if they would make the move to mainspace, first, as that would require no technical adjustments and would be good in other ways.
How on earth did you find this? :) I am glad you keep doing good work like this, thanks again for bringing me back. Cheers, --doncram 16:51, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I found it when i created the category to which it was already pre-added, amazing isn't it? More later... Ottawahitech (talk) 14:48, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Re your comment: to ensure credit is given where due (sorry for going off on a tangent):
A couple of days ago I discovered a dusty article about Halogen Software to which I added a few categories and since its talkpage was a redlink, went in to put some WikiProject banners on. To my surprise I saw that the talk page had been deleted as an orphaned talk page on 22 December 2007 which suggests that an earlier version of the article existed and was deleted on or before this date. The current article was created on 2 February 2016, so there must be at least one other version in the wiki-trash can. I can’t help but wonder if there is useful information that we are not seeing, let alone credit not given… Ottawahitech (talk) 14:14, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
FYI Found some more debris and posted about it on User_talk:Fayenatic_london#Category_:Indian_women_architects. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2016 (UTC)please ping me
FYI More on to ensure credit is given where due at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women#recreating deleted articles Ottawahitech (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2016 (UTC)please ping me

BBC 12-hour Editathon - large influx of new pages & drafts expected[edit]

New Page Reviewers are asked to be especially on the look out 08:00-20:00 UTC (that's local London time - check your USA and AUS times) on Thursday 8 December for new pages. The BBC together with Wikimedia UK is holding a large 12-hour editathon. Many new articles and drafts are expected. See BBC 100 Women 2016: How to join our edit-a-thon. Follow also on #100womenwiki, and please, don't bite the newbies :) (user:Kudpung for NPR. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC))

New Page Review - newsletter #2[edit]

Hello Doncram,
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Crazy Horse, Stockholm[edit]

I'm not convinced that this is notable, but being the previous tenant of a place now rented by a local restaurant in the Vapiano chain doesn't really make it relevant as a redirect to Vapiano, as it wouldn't be mentioned there. It could possibly be redirected to Anna Sjödin, where it is mentioned. --Hegvald (talk) 12:59, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's Greetings[edit]

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Kale Barnster?[edit]

Order-of-the-Red-Star.jpg The Workers' Barnstar
This user has shown great editing skills in improving articles related to Communism or Socialism.

For appreciating my remarks at Bound Together Bookstore Collective, thus moving radical politics forward by allowing humor as a part of it. after all, "if i can't laugh, i dont want to be a part of your revolution"-not attributed to H.L. Mencken.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 21:13, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, i like kale! Methinks you take credit for "makes us tools of the state look like slackers"? Yes, that is great, i obviously definitely appreciated it, though i had no idea you were the pundit. FYI, i was on a binge creating several entries for new Category:Anarchist bookstores, my little way of responding to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse. :) --doncram 01:57, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Season's greetings![edit]

Christmas Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. is wishing you a Merry Christmas!

This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Western false front architecture[edit]

Cite error.Xx236 (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays[edit]

Xmastreenewyork06.jpg Merry Christmas, Doncram!
Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Wikipedia. And for all the help you've thrown my way over the years. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. Onel5969 TT me 23:49, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
Spirit of Christmas.jpg

Speedy deletion nomination of Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York)[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 07:04, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Resolved by an editor removing the Speedy Deletion tag, after I contested the suggestion at Talk:Clinton Historical Society (Clinton, New York) and I added some material to the article. --doncram 20:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Best Wishes[edit]

doncram,

I wish you the best this holiday season.

May the new year bring you nearer to your dreams.

BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon![edit]

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Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

Editor of the Week seeking nominations (and a new facilitator)[edit]

The Editor of the Week initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly Editor of the Week award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The response from the honorees has been enthusiastic and thankful.

The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations?

Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by submitting your nomination for Editor of the Week today!

In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact L235 if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from here to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. Thanks, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 16:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Before I got this notice, the draft-space article was deleted 21 minutes later, at 17:14. Frankly that was rather too abruptly done, when it is just a matter of a dormant draft article. If I recall correctly, it is about a former Carnegie library in which IMO makes it marginally notable, which has further been repurposed into a literacy center / community center which also IMO makes it marginally notable, although it is not listed on any historic register. However, I also recall that I had not found much about it online, and the draft article wasn't particularly good yet, despite the fact it has some potential as a valid Wikipedia topic. Requesting, by this ping to User:Sphilbrick, could it be restored, please, to my userspace (with edit history intact), at User:Doncram/Carnegie Center for Literacy and Learning? I might (or might not) get around to developing it further, perhaps not as a separate article but incorporating it in a list-article of literacy centers which seemed to be needed (related to some AFD(s) about a different literacy center or two). --doncram 20:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
It would reasonable to have, corresponding to Category:Organizations promoting literacy, a List of organizations promoting literacy, which could include mention of this one, including mention that it is hosted in a former Carnegie library. --doncram 21:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Mexico merges/Feryeah13[edit]

Your comment and a look at contributions helped me to find that there are more redundant articles, most of which appear to be very poor translations from eswiki, such as Ahualulco Del Sonido 13, San Luis Potosi to Ahualulco. Some have been redirected. Others that were new to enwiki remain but in horrendous condition. This UAEH one was among the better articles. Raymie (tc) 06:06, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

TNT[edit]

You have now made this comment twice here and here. This is a FRINGE position and if you really believe it you should take me to ANI for my nomination here and followup here. In fact I urge you to do that. Jytdog (talk) 22:21, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Great, you want to have a knock-down drag-out fight. Seems consistent with calls for wp:TNT being wp:disruption. Of course wp:TNT is an essay, not a guideline or policy. I suppose it would be good to counter it with another essay, perhaps wp:BlowUpTNT or wp:TNTTNT? :) --doncram 22:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Actually, thank you for the inspiration. Created that essay, up to this version as of now. Funny that two calls for TNT and my response within Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pressure point should be invoked; that AFD was closed "Keep". --doncram 01:51, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
No, I don't want to have a big fight but you are accusing me of being disruptive and calling for drastic action on the basis of my !vote, which basically sucks. The fact that an AfD went your way is not excuse for that kind of behavior toward other editors. I recommend you knock it off. Jytdog (talk) 02:03, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
Hey, I am sorry that you got the impression that my comment was directed at you. In one of the two articles, i.e. at the Nyala Rinpoche article, you did not invoke TNT, so my little tirade there was not about you at all. I also have not been following you and I have no idea if you use the TNT argument elsewhere. FYI, i have made approximately the same little speech in a bunch of AFDs, maybe a dozen or more. It's not just my thinking; I have seen it expressed more strongly by others. However, given your reaction I will worry if my statements are too strong and will consider if I should indeed "knock it off". I don't want to make Wikipedia a lousy experience for anyone. On the other hand, I happen to think that AFDs in general / usually / often are lousy experiences for the contributors whose work is being nominated for deletion, and I think it is important to stop the madness. Maybe the distinction I need to make is to be sure to call the act of citing TNT bad, or call the TNT reasoning fallacious, or otherwise be clear that I am not attacking a person who invoked the TNT argument (which does exist as an argument that everyone has seen used). I will pay attention to this. Thank you for the feedback. --doncram 02:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Chief Actuary[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Chief Actuary".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:03, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Graduate Students Association[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "Graduate Students Association".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of charitable nonprofits in the United States[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of charitable nonprofits in the United States".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of female fashion photographers[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of female fashion photographers".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:List of women artists[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "List of women artists".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 01:49, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:The Middletown Press[edit]

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "The Middletown Press".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 03:08, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

FYI, rather than delete this draft article I decided to adopt it. It is now at User:Grondemar/Drafts/The Middletown Press. Grondemar 06:02, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
It was developed some by Grondemar I think, and I moved it to mainspace The Middletown Press and they agreed that was okay. --doncram 19:31, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Hacienda San Francisco[edit]

There's some "crap" at the bottom of the article. I'm not sure what template you were trying to do, so I didn't fix it. Also, there is a CS1 error in one of the refs. Not sure if you can see it. Add to your .css file:

/* Show all CS1 errors */
.citation-comment 
{ display: inline !important; }

Bgwhite (talk) 06:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Dashes between person names in house names[edit]

Re this edit, I remain uncertain on how to handle this common redlink situation. I agree with your point, that it's more likely that a new article will be named with hyphens between names, since most editors aren't really very aware of dashes and such. On the other hand, it seems wrong to leave that malstyled version visible, especially alongside the dash-fixed ones. I've got the same problem in some other such lists. Unclear how to proceed; wouldn't it be nice to have an advance directive for redirects or moves or something? Dicklyon (talk) 04:39, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

I suspect it comes up almost exclusively with respect to places listed on the National Register, for those like you who want to proceed with replacing hyphens by dashes. The problem is you can't create a redirect from the hyphenated version to the dashed title, because a bot will delete the redirect. I wonder if there is any way the bot could be stopped, or if the relevant policy (that redirects to redlinks are not allowed) could be changed. But that would be quite the longshot.
One alternative is just to create the article at the hyphenated name and then move it, which I think is good because that creates the redlink and ensures all current and future intended links will work. However some editors at WikiProject NRHP will likely hate that, and it is possible some will hate you personally, and enough so to harass you and create hate/attack pages and open spurious ANI proceedings and so on, for years and years and years. :)
A less-good alternative would be for you to click on the hyphenated name, and then "what links here", to find all current inbound links, and go change those. Changing those is presumably something you want to do. But that doesn't stop people from creating the article at the hyphenated name and there being a disconnect, and for a possible duplicative article being created at the dashed title.
Another approach, applied since 2010 by me, at wt:List of RHPs in OR, specifically at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Oregon#NRHPs with ndash in title, is to create a worklist of all the pairs of two title versions, and monitor that, if/when one turns blue then make the move or create the necessary redirect. If you wanted to go with the worklist approach I would support that and take on the monitoring for years and years. --doncram 05:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
That last looks like a clever approach. And you create that from what? Names you find in existing lists? Just ones you've changed to en dashes? Dicklyon (talk) 05:40, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Here are the other redlink ones I've messed with recently:

[moved to central monitoring page -- doncram]

If you're volunteering to put these on your list and watch them, that's great, and I'll add to it if I do more. If not, I can make such a page to watch myself. These are from all different states, from disambig pages like Jackson House. Dicklyon (talk) 06:47, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

(ec) I don't think I have ever created a title using dashes, by moving or otherwise. I don't have an opinion about dashes vs. hyphens; my only wish is to maintain the elaborate system of disambiguation pages, NRHP list-articles, and related list-articles like List of Elks buildings and List of Presbyterian churches in the United States, which gets messed up if any "outsider" starts changing redlink topic names. :)
To answer directly: From "names in existing lists", I guess, starting with ones where I noticed the lists of NRHP places being edited by someone to use the en dashes. Then I looked further to other NRHP place lists in the area where I could find hyphenated titles which they would likely become an issue. And I may have found more on related disambiguation pages, which are lists of sorts, too. The goal is to list article pairings where a MOS enthusiast either has already changed, or is likely to change, one of the redlinks. If these are listed and monitored, we can fix the damage done, in effect. Honestly, it causes work and it doesn't help any readers, if redlinks are changed to use dashes rather than hyphens, IMO. It does help if you create the articles, and make the redirect from hyphen to dash forms. But you or some other enthusiast aren't completely wrong and cannot be stopped from changing redlinks without making articles as far as I know, so I figure the best thing is if you make the work lighter by contributing to a common monitoring list whenever you do make such a change.
Okay, I have gone and set up a monitoring page at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Hyphens vs. dashes issues. And announced this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#hyphen vs. dash issue monitoring. --doncram 07:18, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Postal templates[edit]

I have commented on the deletion of {{List of United States Post Offices}} but apropos of the {{Postage stamps of the United States}} template I have done a lot of work slowly reorganising it in a personal sandbox and would appreciate your comments. If it is worth keeping I think something like this structure is what is needed and a useful replacement for the current mess. Related items are grouped together in a sensible way that stamp collectors or postal historians think though it still needs some work but I'm not going any further just yet. In this instance there no single list or category that contains them all. ww2censor (talk) 23:56, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Dedicated content people do their thing in solitude?[edit]

Hi Doncram, As one of the best content creators around, I wonder if you have the time to comment on the subject dedicated content people do their thing in solitude? I would be curious to find your take on it. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:36, 20 January 2017 (UTC)please ping me

When an IMDB link appears[edit]

...only as an External link, and not in any way tied explicitly to the content of an article, in particular, a BLP article that is otherwise completely devoid of sources, the appropriate tag is not the IMDB tag, but rather the BLP unreferenced tag. Tags are to be as specific as possible, and External links, per WP:VERIFY, are not citations or references. Moreover, (i) the BLP ureferenced tag posts articles devoid of citations in places where they might get the attention they need to have the WP:VERIFY violation dealt with, and (ii) it presents, within the tag, links to tools that can help follow-on editors find sources for the unsourced article material. That is, the unreferenced tag is both more accurate and appropriate, but it is also more helpful to editors coming to the article. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:38, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Raburn-Casteel House[edit]

Not sure what you meant with: It has a [[single-pen rear ell attached to the original house. Bgwhite (talk) 08:35, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for inquiring. An "ell" is an addition that makes the building L-shaped. A single pen is a log cabin unit: a rectangle of four log walls. I revised it to to be less jargon-y: "a single pen addition attached to the rear of the original house". --doncram 14:54, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Friendship Baptist Church (Washington, D.C.)[edit]

Since you started the article, let me ask you something. This is what the church building looks like now. It's an event space called Blind Whino Arts Club. Do you think I should swap my old 2008 photo for the new one, and if so, is the mural considered artwork that needs to have a fair use license? I'm not sure about this one. The description in these photos say it was commissioned. APK whisper in my ear 06:01, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, glad you're improving that. Funny name of current enterprise. About murals, I rather think the artist/owner is putting it out there for the world to see and usually would be happy for images of it to be spread further, but probably technically it is copyrighted and commons editors would get around to seeing it deleted, if you upload a photo specifically displaying it. Ideally you'd contact them and get permission released, by a wp:OTRS request. Although also in a wide-angle shot from farther away, the entire mural might be covered, as long as it doesn't seem to be the focus of the shot. For Bound Together Bookstore Collective in San Francisco, its mural of anarchist authors is notable, I just link to photo(s) of it. --doncram 15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

MOTD[edit]

A good message relating to personal attacks is this, which i happened to come across. --doncram 15:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

How ironic that you would post that link less than an hour after writing an edit summary that says "restore content deleted during past harassment" at Boyd-Wilson Farm. Those dates were removed, as part of the general cleanup of that article, because the farm was not "built" in those years, not to 'harass' you. Maybe you should read that link again a few times before the next time you feel like insulting a fellow editor in a way that can never be taken back. Station1 (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
When I revisited that article to expand it with NRHP nomination document that is now available online (or it was yesterday, while today the NPS website is not working for me), yes, I was irritated to be reminded that content was deleted way back when. I am not sure of your point, is it that the farm property has always existed as land, and that a "built" date can never be valid? The farmhouse, the main feature of the property was indeed built at several dates. Watch Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm later when I have accessed the NRHP document again. --doncram 15:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
Later: the NRHP document is currently available here and its photos here. The text includes "The farmhouse has several distinct periods of construction, circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920, and 1976." This text was not available during the old contention. I had direct program access to my own downloaded copy of the NRIS database which provided at least the circa 1840, circa 1884, circa 1920 dates, while other editors could not see those dates (because they did not download the data and had access only to an interface which displayed just "1840"). I think that back then I may have perceived the deletion of those dates as insulting, as editors were disputing unreasonably IMO and were disbelieving me as if I were making stuff up, and I think i perceived it that way yesterday when I noticed the deletion had happened back then. And now the dates are specifically supported in a document that all can see. Station1, I don't particularly recall your involvement in it, and I don't think I made anything like a personal attack against you by referencing "harassment" in an edit summary. There was in fact a general pattern of editing that I certainly experienced as harassment that went on for months, and was covered in multiple dispute resolution processes eventually. Maybe/probably I shouldn't have mentioned it, but it was like a "harrumph" moment: see here is documentation that I was right after all. If it was your edit which removed the dates and your point was the technical one that land doesn't have "built" dates, I could respect that, but that was not clear, then or now. The atmosphere back then did not lend itself to rational discussion. If you had a point back then that I was making up stuff, then the NRHP nomination document should disprove that for you. If there's content issue now, let's take that to Talk:Boyd-Wilson Farm. --doncram 22:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
The point is only that personal attacks have no place on WP, and most especially in edit summaries, where they cannot be easily deleted. The person insulted doesn't appreciate it, and, as the "good message" you linked to notes, it mostly makes you look bad. When you get irritated, why not take a breath and read that link a few times before saving? Ask yourself if the person who changed this to this 4 months after your last edit is really just trying to harass you or might be trying to improve the article. Why not just write "added dates to infobox" as an edit summary, instead of anything personal, even if you're right? Everyone will be better off. Station1 (talk) 06:49, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

NPS Redirect[edit]

You should have an email from them by now. If you have more questions I should be able to help you. Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC) Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 22:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Dead link[edit]

Hi , the links I marked as dead are coming up as http1 not available. Am using an ipad, please advise Atlantic306 (talk)

If they are dead it is temporary outage that will not last. All that I reverted were references to the NRIS database, which is linked from something like 50,000 articles. --doncram 02:40, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
I think its been dead for at least a week, at least on my ipadAtlantic306 (talk) 02:44, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. Could have to do with changes at National Park Service noted in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#NPS down, which I thought were all fixed. Can you mention your evidence there, please? --doncram 02:50, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
will do Atlantic306 (talk) 02:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.2[edit]

Hello Doncram,
Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
A HUGE backlog

We now have 425 New Page Reviewers!
Most of us requested the user right at PERM, expressing a wish to be able to do something about the huge backlog, but the chart on the right does not demonstrate any changes to the pre-user-right levels of October.

Hitting 17,000 soon

The backlog is still steadily growing at a rate of 150 a day or 4,650 a month. Only 20 reviews a day by each reviewer over the next few days would bring the backlog down to a managable level and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work!
It didn't work in time to relax for the Xmas/New Year holidays. Let's see if we can achieve our goal before Easter, otherwise by Thanksgiving it will be closer to 70,000.

Second set of eyes

Remember that we are the only guardians of quality of new articles, we alone have to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged by non-Reviewer patrollers and that new authors are not being bitten.

Abuse

This is even more important and extra vigilance is required considering Orangemoody, and

  1. this very recent case of paid advertising by a Reviewer resulting in a community ban.
  2. this case in January of paid advertising by a Reviewer, also resulting in a community ban.
  3. This Reviewer is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry.

Coordinator election[edit]

Kudpung is stepping down after 6 years as unofficial coordinator of New Page Patrolling/Reviewing. There is enough work for two people and two coords are now required. Details are at NPR Coordinators; nominate someone or nominate yourself. Date for the actual suffrage will be published later.


Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:11, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems Advice: Copyright Violation; Publication ‘The Isle of Man (Pevensey Island Guides)’ by Trevor Kneale[edit]

Information icon Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions. I am glad to see that you are discussing a topic. However, as a general rule, talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the topic or unrelated topics. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. Thank you.

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This relates to List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course and specifically to the latest related dispute at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems#Advice: Copyright Violation; Publication ‘The Isle of Man (Pevensey Island Guides)’ by Trevor Kneale. --doncram 19:30, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Information icon Please refrain from using talk pages such as Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems for general discussion of the topic or other unrelated topics. They are for discussion related to improving the article; not for use as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. agljones(talk)22:03, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to use talk pages for inappropriate discussion, as you did at Talk:List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course, you may be blocked from editing. Wikipedia requires that editors to "....Comment on content, not on the contributor" without referring to meta discussions and avoid posting the same thread in multiple talk pages. WP:MULTI It is also advised to follow the relevant BRD discussion and not bypass or undercut the same discussion with additional new sections to avoid hatting policy. WP:HAT, WP:FORUMSHOP Deal with facts rather than non sequitur and rhetorical questions WP:TALK#FACTS when in particular the same BRD discussion has already provided the information. Also, more consideration should be shown to editors that may require time to respond to a talk:page comments to check facts and sources. WP:TALK#USEagljones(talk)10:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Warner Robins Depot[edit]

Warner Robins Depot is on my photo list, the next time I'm up that way. Probably by March 20. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Reviewed![edit]

Hi, I've reviewed the following articles which you created:

I've done minor copyedits on most of them and put a couple of {{elucidate}} in where necessary. Other than that, they're all good.
Thanks for your contributions! DrStrauss talk 15:09, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Neighborhood signage[edit]

On the Harvard Heights, Los Angeles talk page, you had written: "pretty convincing evidence is information about signs being posted which promulgate what the boundaries are. We should not ignore the knowledge of locally-informed persons-on-the-spot." Is there a specific wikipedia rule that states that? Please advise.Phatblackmama (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections[edit]

Your last chance to nominate yourself or any New Page Reviewer, See Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. Elections begin Monday 20 February 23:59 UTC. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Isle of Man TT Races.[edit]

Information icon Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that a recent edit of yours to the page Isle of Man TT has an edit summary that appears to be inaccurate or inappropriate. The summaries are helpful to people browsing an article's history, so it is important that you use edit summaries that accurately tell other editors what you did. Feel free to use the sandbox to make test edits. Thank you.
Information icon It may not have been your intention, but one of your edits, specifically one that you made on Isle of Man TT, may have introduced material that some consider controversial. Due to this, your edits may have been reverted. When adding material that may be controversial, it is good practice to first discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them, to gain consensus over whether or not to include the text, phrasing, etc. If you believe that the information you added was correct, please initiate that discussion. Thank you.

agljones(talk)19:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.3[edit]

Hello Doncram,
Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg

Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed.

Still a MASSIVE backlog

We now have 425 New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced.
If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire.


Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

March Madness 2017[edit]

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

  • tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
  • updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
  • creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Brandywell, Isle of Man[edit]

Information icon Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like you to assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your recent talk page comments on Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man were not added to the bottom of the page. New discussion page messages and topics should always be added to the bottom. Your message may have been moved. In the future you can use the "New section" link in the top right. For more details see the talk page guidelines. Thank you.

Information icon Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Talk:Brandywell, Isle of Man, did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you.
agljones(talk)22:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Information icon Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. agljones(talk)20:12, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10[edit]

WikiProject X icon.svg
Issue 10 of the WikiProject X newsletter is here!

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:

CollaborationKit screenshot CreateCollaborationHub.png

23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Robert Selph Henry[edit]

Hello. Are you only interested in Southern mansions, or Southern history too? I've just created Robert Selph Henry (I think he may be related to Douglas Henry) and there are book reviews on JSTOR but I haven't had time to go through them yet. Are you interested in doing it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For creating so many articles on Georgia recently. Your efforts over the years are appreciated. Boleyn (talk) 18:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Curry Hill Plantation[edit]

Speedy deletion nomination of Curry Hill Plantation[edit]

A tag has been placed on Curry Hill Plantation requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

subject is a non-notable plantation

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. 2001:56A:F2C0:7B00:8DE7:641:B9CB:BF0E (talk) 07:42, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I happened to see this and I disagree with the decision of that IP, so I removed the speedy tag myself. NRHP listed locations are inherently notable in any reasonable interpretation of notability in the US. --Krelnik (talk) 12:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks![edit]

Thansk for telling me about the NRHP articles! I do appreciate that you are interested in NRHP articles in Florida. I am willing to help you out and we can collaborate in the future. (Cass)

A page you started (Georgia Williams Nursing Home) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Georgia Williams Nursing Home, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Blythwood just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

I've added an extra source.

To reply, leave a comment on Blythwood's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Blythwood (talk) 02:54, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion please[edit]

Please discuss what changes you are proposing beside I dont like it there you havent offered a reason to drop the street sorting on List of heritage places in Fremantle. Streets are also related to different precincts and some are in themselves heritage listed as such sorting by streets is a necessary function. Happy to see the addition of co-ordinates but please discuss rather than endless edit warring on the lists format you'd be surprised to learn that we are happy to consider changes in ways to enhance the article, but even the change you have made by combining the address and co-ordinates has damaged the usability of the list Gnangarra 14:35, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Gnangarra, I appreciate your note, which is friendlier than reception there otherwise. I did come to there in response to other editors' concerns about the list-article, and I am obviously trying to improve it using available technology. Besides presentation order and sorting orders to improve upon, there's possible color-coding or otherwise designating the historic register levels and/or other categorizing of properties. It is a tad irritating to be denigrated there, when I do have experience that can help, but oh well.
I opened a new section at Talk:List of heritage places in Fremantle, without talking about the address number + street vs. "location" distinction. Maybe that can wait a little bit? I do recognize that there was some value to being able to sort by "street" before, although that wasn't the greatest. The streets themselves would be in alphabetical order, not grouping the closer ones together, and the sorting within each street would be out of order (the table was not set up to sort the address numbers along a street properly, I don't think). It would make sense to insert hidden sort-order-values into the table, as can be done (see Help:Sorting), to make the "Location" column sortable in some way (perhaps first by "area" then in some detail order that make sense to parade through, including going down each street at a time). I don't want to overload the discussion page there too quickly, but I do want to assure you that the "usability" (if you mean the sorting by street) can be restored and enhanced upon. --doncram 21:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Fremantle subjects[edit]

Re your edit at Drover's Wife

What is it to anyone ? - there happens to be a group of editors interested in Western Australian subjects and topics, and to query any one editor like this over common interests is trolling. The editor is interested in the subject as Toodyaypedia and Freopedia are 'live' on-going wikitown projects - I fail to see why someone needs to be queried as to their interest, or their involvement. More people are 'watching' the Fremantle subjects and articles than are involved in talk page discussions - so it goes JarrahTree 01:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

To keep it in one place, I reply to your similar comment at User talk:The Drover's Wife#huh? in this edit. --doncram 01:49, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

There is nothing to show that you have ever been 'on the ground' in Fremantle, some of us in western australia have to put up with endless and relentless geographically challenged misunderstandings on everything from deserts to perth's weather record - it is possible some aspects of your digging around fremantle city council online material could be the same as my tinkling with valparaiso chile ascensors (where I have actually been and have photos on commons), the sense of parsing online info and expecting to get to the same understanding as 'locals' can be different planets (I would not attempt from my western australian context attempt to play around with valporaiso's 'cerros' and their potential meaning and or functions without local context or assistance, and I generally never assume anything from anything online) - you may think in the english speaking world heritage mapping is universal - there are so many linguistic variables between general heritage practice and guidelines between the uk, us and australia. Wikipedia alone has some absolutely atrocious conflations of terms in some subject areas as to render a 'non-=us' bias so more difficult than you might imagine - the atlantic and pacific render some words and contexts un translatable - even in english... I was meant to be off the computer 2 hours ago - your explorations into fremantle leave me about to go to fremantle for a beer to work out how to forget the conbabulations into something for an online encyclopedia, not a never ending conversation about lists and boundaries... JarrahTree 02:11, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

I give up, the creator of the list has explained his position - I have no idea why, but he seems ok with the precincts that you have located and have suggested. I am now out of the discussion, apologies for the various tangents and what appear to have been pointless diversions JarrahTree 11:29, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I have said that burb section are ok if the full list is expanded, still think that inclusion LGA register is important providing that there is more than just house, address but no further data. For the precincts of Victoria Quay, West End and Wray ave I can see arguements for it but that doesnt necessarily mean I would agree with those sub divisions at this stage. I still maintain that street name sorting is an important aspect that needs to be retained. I also have concern about the size of the resultant article and whether those within the Freo area that is East st(Swanbourne St), Hampton rd, Duoro Road, Ocean and river would be a better consolidation. Gnangarra 12:02, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Henry Howard (architect)[edit]

Perhaps you'll want to expand Henry Howard (architect)?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion[edit]

Hi, I've reviewed a lot of your articles and it's obvious you know what you're doing on here. Since you create a lot of articles, would you be interested in signing up to be autopatrolled? This would save time for new page reviewers since your articles wouldn't go on the review list. Requesting it is really simple - I just said what I'd written and that I thought it would help reduce the workload and that was it. Blythwood (talk) 00:02, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

My apologies, the tool I use to check new pages lists pages by autopatrolled users. Please ignore this! Blythwood (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Your contribution to First Territorial Capitol of Kansas[edit]

Hi doncram,

Yesterday you placed a great NRHP document in this article as a dangling citation, and I am just checking to see if you have plans to develop this article before I devour the link and go to work with it. I think that combined with the 1958 survey I attached earlier yesterday, there is some good stuff there to expand with. But I don't want to counter-edit you because it looks like you're the expert! :)

What I would love to see is the survey map that Jefferson Davis took with red lines on it that defined Fort Riley's boundary. Multiple sources say "East of Onemile Creek," was excluded from the base, but as your topographic map shows, much of the town WAS east of that creek, so I don't understand. Unless the line started at the mouth of the creek and ran along the railroad tracks to the northeast, your map makes it very confusing! I would love your input on this, even if you give me the green light to develop the article. Your plate appears to be more than full. Tireless, indeed!

Thanks! RM2KX.

P.S. Where are you from? Your Wikifootprints are all over America! RM2KX (in Central Missouri) (talk) 08:50, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead, please do exploit the NRHP reference to develop the article. I had taken note of a posting at wt:NRHP about the merger proposal there, and noticed there was no NRHP reference obtained yet, and thought I could help by adding it. Have at it, please!
Ah, yes, as my "Wikifootprints" suggests... yes, you have it right, i am from America. :) --doncram 14:03, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Charles Frederick Zimpel[edit]

You might want to expand Charles Frederick Zimpel. Also if you're able to find out if some of his buildings are still standing and possibly listed... Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 08:27, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Monticello and the University of Virginia[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Monticello and the University of Virginia has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article is a sentence long and the information is included in both articles.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mooeena (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Montana Club[edit]

While reading this article about the Confederate Memorial Fountain (Helena, Montana), I came across a weird history regarding the Montana Club. The strange thing is the Salon article says it was built 130 years ago and designed by a renowned architect, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. Any idea what to make of it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Interesting about the Confederate memorial and about the unusual floor in the Montana Club/The Montana Club in Helena, Montana, too. The 1885-founded club is listed in List of gentlemen's clubs in the United States#Montana with two sources and is worthy of an article, especially with your Salon tidbit. [Down the street from the fountain there are white swastikas on a black tiled floor in the lobby of the Montana Club, a 130-year-old building. The floor was laid long before Nazis, but it got covered up during a renovation and was not rediscovered until about 10 years ago, at which time the decision was made by the Montana Historical Society to preserve the floor because of its age, and because it had been designed by a famous architect. But an explanatory sign was put up next to the building’s entrance, to alleviate the shock that most first-time visitors experience when they walk in.] It's not at all surprising to have an NRHP-eligible place not actually NRHP-listed, as many owners are suspicious/protective of their privacy and property rights, and not needing/interested in any tax benefits for renovations, and they will opt out of listing (which owners can do, even at the last minute after others' work has been done establishing NRHP-eligibility). Hmm, but it seems it is NRHP-listed within Helena Historic District (wikipedia article mentions it). The Montana Club's claim at its website "The Montana Club is the oldest, continuously-operating private club west of the Mississippi" seems dubious given info RE Hawaii one and 3 San Francisco ones at the list-article. Oh, architect of its 1905 building was Cass Gilbert, that is huge! (And interesting arson story, besides interesting story of Gilbert's design per history document linked from Mt Club page). Needs to be added to Cass Gilbert article, which does not currently mention it. Good catch! Will you start an article? DYK it? I will further develop at Helena Historic District article which currently cites 3 NRHP nomination documents but does not link to online copies. --doncram 21:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I'll let you do it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Here's a picture.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Do you think the NRHP listing is incomplete because the Placer Hotel is listed according to the description on Wikimedia Commons, but I don't see it at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana. I am pinging User:Montanabw, who added the description on Commons. This is regarding George H. Carsley.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Oops, I have just seen User:Montanabw's note that it is listed in the Helena Historic District (Helena, Montana). Is there a way to make this more obvious at National Register of Historic Places listings in Lewis and Clark County, Montana though? If I couldn't find it, other editors are bound to be equally confused.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
By the way, this JSTOR article mentions the Montana Club.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:39, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
FWIW, the building is close to my office, let me know if you want a photo of the infamous floor and the sign. Also, if you ping User:KingJeff1970, he is well-positioned to get you any documents you might not otherwise be able to find (see his user page, self-explanatory). Also, I helped create the Helena Historic District Article and to do so at the time I had to go dig through paper copies of the original application, a task I hope not to need to repeat (with luck, it’s all online now…)— keep in mind the district has been expanded twice… there are dozens of conforming properties (I work in one of them). Be glad to answer any questions or help; my wiki time is a bit limited these days, but if you post to my talk page, it will ping my email. If someone wants to find a public domain street map, I can draw the lines to show the boundaries of the district… it’s large. Basically, most of the conforming buildings have their own signs posted on them to indicate they are part of the NRHP district… example File:Atlas Block sign.jpg. Montanabw(talk) 02:38, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Montanabw so much for your having nicely developed the district article in 2013 and for helping out now! Yes the three NRHP documents (along with accompanying 20, 50, 44 photos) are available online now, and I just updated their references accordingly. Yes, it would be great if you could upload a few pics! I haven't done a DYK nomination in years but would be motivated to do so now....it would be great if you could get one or two detail pics that show just one or a few swastikas which might work well as small thumb photo in the DYK section on the Wikipedia main page. If it all comes together fast then it would be a good DYK. I don't promise too much timely effort myself though, so it might not, and let's not stress just to meet DYK deadline; the real point would be to support a nice new article. Other interior pictures would be more important perhaps. The Club's history document features one specific original table/desk that may now be in an office, which would be great to get a pic for, too.
Thanks Zigzig20s for going ahead and starting the Montana Club article. The 10th photo in the first NRHP document includes the Montana Club without labelling it (maybe it is across the street from the initial historic district?), and it is the subject of the 22nd photo in the second NRHP document. I'll add those references with mention of those photos to the Montana Club article. --doncram 03:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
As you all noticed, I took more photos of the area... all now in their own category on Commons. I wasn't able to get a shot of the 6th floor banquet room because they were having a meeting in there, the Rathskeller was closed, and my photo of the dining room bar was out of focus. But let me know if any of these would be worth another trip over there; the building is open odd hours sometimes; I was lucky to shoot the dining room when nothing was going on. Oh yeah, and it's also got some old steam tunnels under it where they allegedly used to smuggle in hookers from places like Big Dorothy's... plus there's a claim it's haunted [1], [2]. Montanabw(talk) 03:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Would they let you take pictures of the tunnels?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Notice[edit]

Hello sir , here's a deletion discussion going on and you most likely would be interested in it as you once !voted a keep for it before it got re-listed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Okon_Goes_to_School Celestina007 (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Mount Saint Joseph Academy[edit]

You were completely right. I must have been looking at the old version of the article that was full of COPYVIO content. That content was later removed and I seem to have overlooked that important fact. Thanks for noticing. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:07, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Metter High School[edit]

The old Metter High School is not on highway 129 - it is 4 blocks to the west. That is probably where the new HS is. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 21:42, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled[edit]

Hi Doncram. I patrolled one of your new article creations earlier, and was surprised to see your name pop up on the new page feed. Your user page has a box saying you're autopatrolled, but this (and my experience earlier) suggests you're not. I thought I should let you know. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, User:Cordless Larry, i didn't realize that old userbox was there, and I just removed it. Right, I am not autopatrolled, as a legacy from contention long ago. Twice over the years I asked for the status to be changed. It is fairly nonsensical in my case, but I think the policy/practice is that if you ask for your status to be changed, then it is denied because you asked for it. --doncram 22:46, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Note, i was pinged in this. --doncram 16:50, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
  • I'm filing a request at WP:ARCA for clarification of whether or not you are still restricted, it should be live in just a few minutes. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:13, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
From this discussion here I thought you probably would rather have it back, so that's on me for assuming, When I denied it I was basing that on your user rights log, then I remembered I'd seen your name at WP:RESTRICT, where I've been doing a bit of reorganizing work, and went back and saw that this eventually went to arbcom, and "regular" admins don't like to do anything that might step on the toes of an arbcom decision. They tend to desysop admins who do stuff like that so we're a bit gunshy about it. I didn't mean to stir up any drama or anything and now I feel like I probably owe you an apology, so sorry if this was stressful or stirred up anything best left behind, that was certainly not my intention.
The listing at RESTRICT is a bit off, which led to the confusion on my end about the timeframe as well. My reasoning, for the record, was that since there was an arbcom restriction on you creating certain types of articles, that probably means your articles should be reviewed, whereas if there wasn't you should probably have it since you create so many. I probably should have also alerted you to the fact that another admin asked me about this at WT:PERM as he was looking into the request at the same time I was declining it, and we were just trying to figure out how to proceed. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining, including about your concern about stepping on toes and otherwise about your role. You're right, I was alarmed at an issue being raised at ARCA, and the immediate prospect of drama, over complicated stuff that new and old people do not need to engage in, besides the fact that I honestly think the arbitration committee sometimes has too much workload. Given your remarks, i found my way to Iyour discussion at wt:PERM. I appreciate your seeing that I could experience stress -- i suppose I do a bit if/when I go back into old horrible stuff, which your discussion there was going towards. I would have been happy to participate there if you had informed me, though, and I think your concern about stepping on toes could have been addressed. I was/am not up to ringing alarm bells and drama. Again I don't need auto-patrol, but I guess it is a hurdle that maybe should be crossed, and would fairly involve allaying concerns of PERM regulars (which I think can be done). How about coming back to this after May 6, at wt:PERM, to discuss quietly I hope. --doncram 04:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I do not think such a request would have a quiet response anytime soon due to your return to some old behavior patterns discussed below. Jonathunder (talk) 13:49, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

ARCA archived[edit]

Beeblebrox's recent clarification request has been archived at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#Clarification request: Doncram (April 2017). For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 13:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hospital de San Carlos[edit]

I found significant coverage for a now closed hospital that was located in Spain which has the same name. Maybe the sentence can be changed and the article re-categorized SL93 (talk) 02:49, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Of course I mean if this hospital is found to be non-notable. SL93 (talk) 03:06, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Bots Newsletter, April 2017[edit]

Bots Newsletter, April 2017
BAG laurier.svg

Greetings!

The BAG Newsletter is now the Bots Newsletter, per discussion. As such, we've subscribed all bot operators to the newsletter. You can subscribe/unsubscribe from future newsletters by adding/removing your name from this list.

Highlights for this newsletter include:

Arbcom

Magioladitis ARBCOM case has closed. The remedies of the case include:

  • Community encouraged to review common fixes
  • Community encouraged to review policy on cosmetic edits
  • Developers encouraged to improve AWB interface
  • Bot approvals group encouraged to carefully review BRFA scope
  • Reminders/Restrictions specific to Magioladitis
BRFAs

We currently have 27 open bot requests at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval, and could use your help processing!

Discussions

There are multiple ongoing discussions surrounding bot-related matters. In particular:

New things

Several new things are around:

Wikimania

Wikimania 2017 is happening in Montreal, during 9–13 August. If you plan to attend, or give a talk, let us know!

Thank you! edited by:Headbomb 11:35, 12 April 2017 (UTC)


(You can unsubscribe from future newsletters by removing your name from this list.)

Statesboro[edit]

I want to get back to Statesboro to do the HDs soon - I'll get the one you just altered. Next on my list, though, is Emanuel County, GA. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 18:08, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Okay, Bubba73, gotcha. Thanks for noticing that I figured out a photo was wrong. I'll turn somewhat to National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia, then. For the (apparently demolished) Emanuel County Courthouse and Sheriff Department, there is note that "there is a historical marker", maybe you could get a pic of that marker for the article? Technically, historic markers are not necessarily public domain, but IMHO it is okay to post photos of them. --doncram 18:27, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
I was researching the places in the county and found that the old courthouse and sheriff office is gone (I'm the one who put in the note). I couldn't find it when I was there but I didn't have the right address. I read that the historical marker mentions the building and I spotted it in the satellite view. I'm planning the other things in the county, but it would be about 30 minutes out of my way to go over to Swainsboro to get the marker, so my plan is to swing back through Statesboro (Bulloch county) and get some of that. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:55, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Here is the marker for the old Emanuel Co. courthouse - it does NOT mention the building. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 20:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
    • Thanks! I'll remove the mention then at National Register of Historic Places listings in Emanuel County, Georgia. I have now begun articles for all there although i left several with "under construction" tags, in my "to do" category, and I won't forget them. About Twin City Historic District, I wonder if this one merits more systematic treatment, like by photos of each of the significant buildings which could be used to make a list-table. Despite what i incoherently started to say elsewhere, I think it is not obvious when a historic district merits that. This one is marginal, as the NRHP document provides some description of prominent properties but maybe not enough, and the district is maybe not exceptional. I suppose you'll see if you're inspired, or not, based on what you see there. I don't mind either way, if the non-table-ized list i'm developing in the article gets further developed or not. --doncram 02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
I covered Emanuel County and did some in Statesboro today. I got a ton of photos of the Twin City HD - it is spread around. I'll try to upload them within a few days. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Great! I saw that you added some to the Emanuel County list-article. I need to come back to some of the linked pages.
About Thomas County, for sometime in the future, I have been plugging along and there are now 25 articles for its 40 places. Wright House (Thomasville, Georgia) is one where there is a photo from its front gate, but the place appears to be a gem based on its NRHP photos and really needs some closer-up photos. I hope you might remember to try to go knock at its door and take pictures of its doorway and its front porch columns. --doncram 20:58, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
An interesting thing about Emanuel County - I finished up the photos Saturday except for the demolished old courthouse. But that same day someone added a 1951 photo of it to its article!
I plan to get to Thomas and Grady sometime, and hopefully a county or two above them - but I can't do this on a day trip and I have no specific plans. I'm planning to do a day trip to Jenkins County on May 29. I'm planning to finish up McIntosh county sometime, but you have to take a ferry to Sapelo Island and hire a personal tour guide to get to the other places, so I don't know when I will do it. Also on my wish list is Baldwin county, which is also too far to do in a day trip. There are some in Baldwin that need photos and some that have only old B&W photos from decades ago. And then Muscogee County needs quite a few, but they are spread out in a large city, so it will probably take two nights on the road. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
The photo of the Wright house is beautiful, but I can get closeups of it from the street. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:30, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Jenkins County articles are in progress. Hey, stories shared about Birdsville Plantation in comments at Brian Brown's photos/blog site are amusing, including, apropos to past discussion: Missing the “no trespassing” sign, I walked down the dirt lane taking pictures and marveling at the history around me. I was run off, then chased by the owner. On the highway in front of the plantation I declared my ignorance , begged forgiveness, and was given a history lesson of the family during the civil war, and an explanation of the buildings on the site. Brian Brown himself had permission as did another visitor or two. Maybe you could/should write ahead, now, given that you have an expected visit date. --doncram 01:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
Thank you for creating so many articles on historic buildings - your hard work is appreciated. Boleyn (talk) 19:55, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The Fairfax House[edit]

Hello. Are you able to identify if the Fairfax House on listed on the National Register of Historic Places listings in St. Mary Parish, Louisiana please? At first I thought it was the Grevemberg House, but apparently they are different houses.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:Zigzig20s, I'd be glad to help if i can. My browser does not want to open that Fairfax House webpage as it detects a threat there, so I don't know what details you have about it. However, Grevemberg House is in Franklin, Louisiana, and I see from browsing at the Louisiana database that there is a "Franklin Historic District" there, with 420(!) structures. I wonder if Fairfax House could be a contributing building in the district, hence it would be NRHP-listed and could even have an NRHP plaque on the building. Here is a map of the district. Usually it is okay to create a separate article about a contributing building in a historic district, if you have any substantial source about it. Here, the Franklin HD NRHP document PDF (the scanned parts provided by Louisiana, anyhow) doesn't specifically mention "Fairfax". (I find the PDF and map and photos at this Louisiana page for the Franklin HD. Does this help? Hmm, Franklin Historic District (Franklin, Louisiana) is currently a redlink, maybe i or you could create that article now. --doncram 20:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, @Zigzig20s:, a Yelp page says Fairfax House is at 99 Main St., and consistent with that Google maps shows a Fairfax House is on Main St. at Foster Ave, which is two blocks south of the end of the district. :( And from browsing to see the addresses of each of the St. Mary Parish listings in Franklin (select St. Mary Parish at Louisiana database), there are not any others which could be Fairfax House, as far as I can tell. So I expect it is a B&B that advertises itself as historic, but it is not in fact NRHP-listed. --doncram 21:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, but the NRHP document lists 100 Main St. and 101 Main St. as in the district, and a mile away from 99 Main St. Maybe there is supposed to be North Main St. and South Main St. and/or maybe there have been street renumberings. So I am no longer sure what's up. --doncram 21:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I first saw it on this website.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:07, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Joshua K. Hutchison House) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Joshua K. Hutchison House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor SouthernNights just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Nice beginning article. Thanks for adding it to Wikipedia.

To reply, leave a comment on SouthernNights's talk page.

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SouthernNights (talk) 18:11, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Fixed tables' headers[edit]

Hi, Doncram

I read your post about the implementation of fixed tables' headers on Google Chrome and Apple Safari browsers, and i verified it. Thanks for your post. I've tried to answer you on my talk page on wikimedia but i couldn't. So thank you very much for your attention,

Regards, Dorivaldo de C. M. dos Santos (talk) 22:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

renaming courthouse articles (again)[edit]

You moved Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin) unnecessarily. Please review the discussion we had about that last July, where multiple editors told you not to do that. Jonathunder (talk) 23:44, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

You've been warned other times, too. If you want to edit war rather than discuss this, it will lead to a block. Jonathunder (talk) 00:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I imagine you have been sitting on the edge of your seat for eight or nine months, just waiting to pounce in some way! You don't get to dictate what is done, naming-wise in Wikipedia, and threatening is not nice. Don't edit war, yourself.... you could have discussed the move and chose not to, rather moving back within one minute, rather than opening discussion, and causing an edit conflict for me when I saved the development of the article I was writing. Well, okay, I did just now review the previous discussion, and find that it ended when you did not reply to questions. You could have replied, you did not. You also could have developed the article and other ones; it happens I am proceeding at developing such articles and I just happened to get to this one to expand it a bit. My questions still stand, and it still makes sense to discuss the perceived issues. I would like you to reply here, please do. --doncram 00:10, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

No, I really expected when this was last discussed that you would not resume your disruptive page moves without discussing them first. Now you are edit warring on deletion discussions with other people. I don't know why you are doing this, but it must stop. Jonathunder (talk) 02:33, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Followup: To Jonathunder, yes there was a weird interaction about an inappropriate closure of a contested AFD discussion by an involved editor, which i brought up at wp:ANI, where multiple other editors agreed that the closure was against the rules for AFDs. I reverted the closure twice believing that they were just making a mistake and needed to be informed that the closure was against the rules, i.e. I thought it was uncontroversial to revert. When I realized they really were intentionally going against the rules and were edit warring to force their way (which i was not doing), I brought it to ANI, which is appropriate. This was a bizarre sequence and I think this has nothing to do with naming of disambiguation pages.
About page moves, I have certainly moved hundreds of pages, if not thousands, in my editing over the years, and that is okay to do, and I believe that most times my moves have improvements serving readers and that consensus has agreed with me. About the page where we disagree, I moved it as one step in improving the article, and I was bothered by your abrupt, immediate move back that caused edit conflict for me as I developed it. And I moved it again, which was later reverted by another editor. I see quoted elsewhere, that WP:RMUM (part of WP:RM) says "Anyone can be bold and move a page without discussing it first and gaining an explicit consensus on the talk page. If you consider such a move to be controversial, and the new title has not been in place for a long time, you may revert the move... Move wars are disruptive, so if you make a bold move and it is reverted, do not make the move again. Instead, follow the procedures laid out in § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves." So, sure, I guess I should not have moved it back. I think it is somewhat extenuating that I was in fact developing the article, and relatedly was informed to a certain extent about the topic, i.e. I had some pseudo-expertise and temporarily felt some ownership (not in a bad way) over the topic. In general, I think that editors should defer somewhat to other editors who are actually developing a topic, although I am not saying that is enforceable. I personally feel that you were rude in your actions to make the move and to come here and make accusations against me. It is weird that you have declined to discuss the topic (you have declined to answer my questions to you) and yet you want me to hold to the outcome of the incomplete discussion. The way the discussion stands is that your view is contested/questioned, and you do not get to freeze development of Wikipedia until you deign to respond. I would like to call attention to what I assume is common ground between us, that we both do seek the development of Wikipedia coverage of NRHP-listed places. I hope you agree that development of articles, on which i spend by far the majority of my editing time in Wikipedia, is what matters most. In this specific case, it would be nice if you would acknowledge my modest development of the topic, although I don't really expect you to do so. --doncram 17:05, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

LibStar abruptly closing AFD[edit]

The following two sections relate to wp:ANI discussion that was archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive952#LibStar abruptly closing AFD. I find the editor's behavior odd; i twice reverted an AFD closure believing they were unaware of the rules for closing a contested AFD, only to discover they really were edit warring intentionally to get their way, and coming here to threaten me. I don't exactly agree with the ANI closure and some comments therein, where other editors note the closure was in fact against the rules and practice, yet they were inclined to let it go. However when to let a transgression slide is a matter of judgment, so I don't object too much, but the editor should be considered to be on notice. --doncram 17:17, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

your behavior[edit]

is bordering on WP:POINT, take it to deletion review if you are not happy. If you persist I will raise an WP:ANI. LibStar (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

AfD, ANI, etc.[edit]

I'm sorry to see that your dispute with LibStar has boiled over onto ANI. You've been a great help with saving the museum articles from deletion. Sometimes, there are so many of them at AfD it's hard to find time to uncover sources for them all. Thanks! Altamel (talk) 03:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

South Carolina mansion[edit]

Hi. Is this listed? Perhaps you could create an article?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:36, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

The article itself claims it is listed. And sure enough it already has an article here: Bon Haven What a darn shame that it will be torn down. --Krelnik (talk) 18:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Yamashiro Historic District images[edit]

Hallo Doncram,

Would you mind taking a look here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California/Los_Angeles_task_force#Yamashiro_Historic_District_images for your help, or ask a user in the task force who might be able to help? Thank you very much. Gryffindor (talk) 15:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Douglas County Courthouse (Wisconsin)[edit]

FYI I reverted your move because of a request at WP:RM/TR. I have procedurally opened an RM if you want to comment. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Doncram, what are you doing?

  • It's quite dubious that buildings and institutions are "places" for our purposes. I mean yes I get that you could argue for (and against) the proposition that in the real world buildings or institutions are "places" rather than "things" -- it could be an interesting discussion. But one thing is certain: WP:PLACE doesn't apply to buildings and institutions. In that very long and detailed page, there is not one single mention or example of a building. They talk mostly about political divisions, and a bit about neighborhoods, rivers, highways, and mountains. They had plenty of space to cover or at least mention buildings. But they didn't. They didn't because they didn't think about buildings or intend to cover them.
  • And WP:USPLACE prescribes comma delineation, so if buildings were covered by WP:PLACE it would be "Building, State" or "Building, City, State" and not "Building (City, State)".
  • But also, WP:PLACE doesn't prescribe unnecessary disambiguation. Since it doesn't cover buildings you have to extrapolate a bit, but I think it fair to say (leaving aside comma delineation) that "Building (City, State)" would be analogous to "City (County, State)" or "County (State, Nation)" which we would do only if "City (State)" etc. is insufficient -- and WP:PLACE in no way indicates otherwise.
  • But anyway, even if WP:PLACE applied to buildings (which it doesn't), and even if it said to use "Building (City, State)" when we didn't have to (which it doesn't), WP:PLACE is a guideline, and WP:AT is a policy which trumps it, and WP:AT tells us to be concise, and to be more no precise than necessary.
  • And as regards actual practice, the situation appears mixed. Four of six articles requiring disambiguation in Category:County courthouses in Wisconsin use "Building (State)". I didn't check further.

And even if my analysis above was all wrong, it's not nonsense. It is at least arguable. Since its at least arguable you need to not move articles on your personal belief, but initiate a Requested Move, thanks.

By the way, on the merits I don't necessarily mind "Building (City, State)" if it helps the reader more quickly grasp what the article is about. There could be a Recognizability argument for "Douglas County Courthouse (Superior, Wisconsin)"... not strong IMO but I could be wrong.

We don't seem to have a guideline covering buildings. I expect to start a discussion about that soon, and I'll ping you, and maybe "Building (City, State)" when disambiguation is required can get adopted -- I doubt it, but you never know. Herostratus (talk) 04:12, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Moving forward[edit]

I think I'm on your side on the merits of this (not on the concept of making controversial moves on your own dime). As promised, I opened a conversation on this and am hereby pinging you. It is here: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)#What are, or should be, the disambiguation guidelines for buildings?. Herostratus (talk) 05:14, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Peace Barnstar Hires.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
For your ability to see both sides of an issue, and give sage advice gently, a rare and valuable asset to the project. E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:24, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Texas Trail[edit]

Was this the same as the Chisholm Trail, or something different? There's an ambiguous link (tagged as {{dn}}) to the DAB page Texas Trail in Texas Trail Stone Corral which I do not feel competent to fix. If yes, cross-references might be in order; if no, there may be a missing article. Narky Blert (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Right, I have been wondering if there is a missing article, since whenever it was I created and/or edited at Texas Trail Stone Corral. I considered your making addition to the Texas Trail disambiguation page to be a contribution towards sorting out the question. Since there are a couple references to "Texas Trail", i tend to think this is different than the Chisholm Trail, but I don't know. Hmm, the NRHP nomination document for the corral repeatedly speaks of the "Texas Trail". I speculate perhaps it was a name used in Nebraska for one or more trails which brought cattle from Texas to railroads in Nebraska. Maybe on the Texas end it/they were called differently (like, on the other end they could have been called "Nebraska Trail")? But that speculation doesn't hold. The corral was built c.1876 and served the Texas Trail for a decade. However the Chisholm Trail speaks of railroad reaching Abilene, Kansas and other locations before 1876, presumably to the south of Nebraska, so it wouldn't make sense for cattle to be driven to Nebraska. So maybe the Texas trail was to bring cattle south towards Texas, to railroads? I dunno. --doncram 20:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Googling "Texas Trail in Nebraska" gives several sources, including THE TEXAS TRAIL, at Nebraska State Historical Society. So yes, the disambiguation page should be moved to Texas Trail (disambiguation) and a new article should be created. Go ahead, Narky Blert, or I will, soon. Thanks for your focus upon this! --doncram 20:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

note about Colquitt County Arts Center[edit]

I just reviewed your new article. I realize that you might be still working on it. The infobox needs 'fixed'. Thanks for what you do! Best Regards,

  Bfpage  let's talk...  22:51, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Right, yes, after an edit conflict, it is now fixed. This is about Moultrie High School, aka Colquitt County Arts Center. Thanks! --doncram 22:58, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
That was one of the last former redlinks on National Register of Historic Places listings in Colquitt County, Georgia, now completely "articled". I have been off and on developing articles on Georgia NRHP topics in loose coordination with editor Bubba73, who has been developing them with new photographs, and was/is planning to visit Colquitt county sometime soon. On this one I hope there can be some more and/or better photographs added! --doncram 17:23, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation)[edit]

I have replied to your comment at Talk:Bonanza High School (disambiguation)#Do not delete. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:11, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Robert "Bob" Hicks House) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Robert "Bob" Hicks House, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Elliot321 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thank you for creating this useful page! I look forward to seeing it significantly expanded.

To reply, leave a comment on Elliot321's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Elliot321 (talk) 17:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo talk page comment[edit]

I thought some of your ideas at the Jimbo talk page regarding the entrepreneur article issue were intriguing, but I confess I cringed a bit when you suggested that she probably cheats on her taxes. Would you consider redacting that comment? It's my opinion there are important issues to address, and in the same way I objected when I thought smallbones went over the top, I think your comment distracts from the main discussion.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Sphilbrick, I think you're nice for asking for that, and I already know you're a nice person from interactions over the years, including seeing you be kind to new editors having trouble understanding how to participate in Wikipedia. I refined one of my comments already, but right now I think i should just stand by my remarks. A point that I am making is that you and others are being nice, and are being abused, and it's simply a different world out there. The author mentions having long correspondence with some community representative (member of the Foundation board of directors?) and corresponding with others, and I rather expect they were dealt with patiently and it was explained how the paid editors' shit-work is a real drag and hurts real people, volunteer editors, and yet they go on with their recommendation to just trash Wikipedia and lie. They're not being nice. Wikipedia does not need to be nice to them. Right, I tried to express that I am not myself comfortable about being "not nice", but that's the deal. Hmm, suppose they are a real person and a mother and whatever, and they have Facebook friends who see them being criticized, and suppose they really do feel hurt by my comments (which I doubt). Well, I don't relish hurting anyone, but they are hurting real nice people here, and they jolly well know that. Hmm, maybe what got published is not what they wrote...perhaps what they submitted was in fact witty, and yet some editor made them change it or simply changed it for them, and pushed on to be provocative. I.e. suppose it is not really their view, does it seem unfair to criticize them? Well, what they wrote does not read that way. If they want to correspond to me (they can "email this user" at the left here) and explain what really happens, I would be happy to listen. But then it would seem their beef should be with the editor who changed what they wrote and left them looking like a jerk. They do look like a jerk. And the editor(s), whether they changed anything or not, have some responsibility too. I do sincerely thank you for giving your point of view. --doncram 21:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)


Banco de Ponce[edit]

Left you a reply at

Nothing personal: I think the wider issue does need to be resolved, so I've nominated an AFD... Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Burwell Bridge) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Burwell Bridge, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Nicnote just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Wonderful article as always!

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Nicnote • ask me a question • contributions 20:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation[edit]

The guideline for disambiguation is at WP:PRECISION and the key for titles is being concise, i.e. using as few words as possible. Precedence in other similar articles only requires using "city, state" in parenthesis in the event more than one article of the same title exists in the same state. This happens a lot with high schools, for instance, Lakewood High School (Lakewood, Ohio) and Lakewood High School (Hebron, Ohio) since "Lakewood High School (Ohio)" is still ambiguous. The school of the same name in New Jersey, however, only needs "New Jersey" to disambiguate (Lakewood High School (New Jersey)) since there aren't any other schools with that name in New Jersey. For things like Midway Drive-In, the only difference between them is which state they're in, so we can just use state. Midway Drive-In (Ohio) is precise enough to separate disambiguate from Midway Drive-In (Illinois) and Midway Drive-In (Texas). The "city, state" convention for most US cities is generally for the city articles themselves, not for disambiguation titles, except as needed. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Article, Keppel Gate, Isle of Man[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm Agljones. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.
Information icon Constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, but a recent edit that you made has been reverted or removed because it was a misuse of a warning or blocking template. Please use the user warnings sandbox for any tests you may want to do, or take a look at our introduction page to learn more about contributing to the encyclopedia. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. agljones(talk)07:48, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:TNTTNT[edit]

Ambox warning orange.svg Wikipedia:TNTTNT, a page which you created or substantially contributed to (or which is in your userspace), has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:TNTTNT and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:TNTTNT during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:33, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Wayne Commercial Historic District) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Wayne Commercial Historic District, Doncram!

Wikipedia editor Elliot321 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thank you for creating this useful article!

To reply, leave a comment on Elliot321's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Elliot321 (talk) 20:31, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee[edit]

So many red links at National Register of Historic Places listings in Shelby County, Tennessee...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:37, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, Zigzig20s, one fewer now. I wouldn't mind working on it together with you. But any reason to address that list, rather than other blue-coded counties in NRHP progress map? If you are going to visit and take photos, for example, please do say. --doncram 12:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted[edit]

Wikipedia Autopatrolled.svg

Hi Doncram, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Swarm 03:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that. (Was done here.) --doncram 11:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - Newsletter No.4[edit]

Hello Doncram,
Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg

Since rolling out the right in November, just 6 months ago, we now have 425 reviewers, but the backlog is still mysteriously growing fast. If every reviewer did just 55 reviews, the 22,000 backlog would be gone, in a flash, schwoop, just like that!

But do remember: Rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Do not over-tag. Make use of the message feature to let the creator know about your maintenance tags. See the tutorial again HERE. Get help HERE.

Stay up to date with recent new page developments and have your say, read THIS PAGE.


If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Fort Arbuckle Site[edit]

A tag has been placed on Fort Arbuckle Site requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G6 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an orphaned disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates two or fewer extant Wikipedia pages and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic); or
  • disambiguates no (zero) extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - MrX 23:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee)[edit]

Thank you for creating Confederate Monument (Union City, Tennessee). Any idea who the sculptor was please?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Zigzig20s, that was back in 2010! Just now I added the NRHP registration document (with its photos) now available, which supports an assertion that the 1869 monument is the first one honoring unknown Confederate dead. But no sculptor info. Some more from the NRHP doc could be added, too. --doncram 05:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Affine manifold (disambiguation)[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Affine manifold (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Disambiguation not required. Primary topic has necessary hatnote

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:56, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Category:Centennial farms has been nominated for discussion[edit]

Category:Centennial farms, which you created, has been nominated for possible merging. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Imperial Crown Architecture[edit]

Hi Doncram, I am wondering whether it would be useful to have a category for Imperial Crown style architecture? This style was not confined only to Japan, as there are examples to be found in other countries, such as Taiwan [3] and probably other parts of the Japanese Empire. merlinVtwelve (talk) 04:49, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

User:MerlinVtwelve, I agree. Go ahead, wp:be bold and create it (presumably Category:Imperial Crown Style architecture or similar), or do you want me to? Note there is wp:CLNT, an essay or guideline about how having categories and list-articles are complementary. Clearly accumulating information about this architectural style by creating and gradually populating a category will be a good thing. --doncram 02:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
P.S. I wouldn't worry too much about whether "Japanese" or other qualifier is needed in the category title. Categories can easily be renamed and a bot will go through the articles created in order to update them. --doncram 02:42, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll give it a whirl. I've never previously created a category, so it will be a good learning experience (I hope). IMHO it's a fascinating and sometimes quite elegant style. merlinVtwelve (talk) 03:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Saint Paul Catholic Church article[edit]

Hello Doncram. I tried to create an article for St. Paul's but couldn't. I don't think it's notable enough, and there isn't very much to be said that's not already on the church's history page. It was a challenge to avoid close paraphrasing. I took away the red link on the Archdiocese page. I saved the version that I was working on in case I decide to come back to it, but at this point I don't think it's worth it. Display name 99 (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi, User:Display name 99, thanks for letting me know. Is your draft available? I'd rather try to expand on that than develop from scratch. Could you point me to where it currently is, or post it at Draft:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland) or similar Draft-space or User-space location? I'd like to see it and try perhaps to expand it. I am betting you are a bit harsh on yourself / strict on what you think suffices, but also maybe some other eyes would be able to find and add more. I do appreciate your making effort on this. This relates to discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Our Lady of Pompeii Church. --doncram 02:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I've posted it. Two things that aren't on the parish's history page, though, are the Babe Ruth marriage and the fact that the church sheltered people during the deadly 2016 Maryland flood, for which it made the news. Display name 99 (talk) 02:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay, great, thanks! It looks like a good start, and from the browsing I did before I am sure that I can add other sources. Do you do DYK's? I haven't for quite a while, but this could be a good topic for a mainpage DYK such as "Did You Know that... Babe Ruth was married at Saint Paul Catholic Church in Ellicott City, Maryland?", assuming we could develop some details about that topic in the article. I'd be happy to work towards something like that if it would be okay with you. I'll get around to developing the draft-space article gradually. --doncram 02:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
If you really feel like it's notable, I could just go ahead and create it now, and we both could work towards that. I've never done a DYK before, but that sounds interesting. Display name 99 (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay, do lets do a DYK then! For DYK purposes, it is better to develop the article in draftspace until it is ready, without the clock running. Requirements include that it has to have 1500 bytes of article text, not including infoboxes and other stuff, and it has to have detailed sourcing for the DYK assertion, and it has to be new to mainspace, less than 5 days old I think, when nominated, and maybe there is another requirement or two. The current article text has 615 bytes by the tool that i use. Development including DYK wording can be discussed at Draft talk:Saint Paul Catholic Church (Ellicott City, Maryland). Great, I am happy to have a small positive project like this! --doncram 02:59, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Copyright Infringement;- List of named corners of the Snaefell Mountain Course[edit]

Copyright problem icon Your addition has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. agljones(talk)11:32, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nonsense. I replied yet again at the long-open Copyright problems discussion section, and at this point I am coming around to support permanent ban of agljones from Isle of Man TT racing related articles, which has been suggested by others at the copyright problems discussion. --doncram 20:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Restricted address section intro[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Restricted address section intro has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 04:44, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:NRHP dab cleanup[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:NRHP dab cleanup has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 05:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)