Talk:State Anthem of the Soviet Union

I have no idea what I'm doing really, so forgive me if this is set up wrong. If someone wants to edit my writing so it's set up better I have no objection.

Anyhow, there is an error in the Paul Robeson version. Wikipedia reads "through days dark and stormy while great Lenin lead us." It should read "through days dark and stormy where great Lenin lead us.

I tried to edit this myself, but it was promptly changed back. I certainly must congradulate this person for their diligance if nothing else.

Sources: Soviet Empire Rusflag

There are more, but I feel that they aren't necesary, particularly if one would just listen to the song.

So I am changing it to the correct lyrics now. I hope this error will not be repeated.

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Phonetic English is easier for our non Cyrillic readers who simply want to know the lyrics to the song so that they may sing along. Aika

---P Why do we have the Russian transliterated into phonetic English here? Why not just put it down in Cyrillic? Amateur transliterations are almost always problemmatic. Unless there is a really good reason, we should probably avoid them.

Because not everyone can display Cyrillic and most cannot read Cyrillic. 24.10.139.96 03:19, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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Why not use the English title Hymn of the Soviet Union but to use this Russian title which is much less well known? This is against our naming convention of using common name. --Lorenzarius 09:37, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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I was listening to several recordings of the USSR anthem (see the external link provided in the main article footnotes), and I realised that the version of the lyrics is (which mentions Stalin) have many more differences rather than the mention of Stalin's name.

Many research documents explain that the 1977 version have just remove a verse that mention Stalin's name, but in fact, many other verses were replaced, such as the verse after the lyrics (Partia Lenina"...). Could someone comment on this? It would be great if we could publish the whole original 1493 lyrics as well! Pinnecco 07:57, 02 Jul 2004 (GMT)

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The translation seems kind of strange - "Created in struggle by will of the people" to my understanding it reads more like "Long live the Soviet Union, created by the people" or in the chorus it is translated as "Sing to the Motherland, Home of the Free" but it really says "Be glorious our free fatherland". Where did it originate? 24.10.139.96 03:19, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's lyrics you know, generally they can't preserve every nuance as literal translation does (unless it's Eugene Onegin translation by Charles Hepburn Johnston. DmitryKo

Hmm. Alright. 24.10.139.96 02:38, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hymn vs Anthem

Hymn (Гимн) is just Anthem and also National Anthem. I don't think it's proper to transliterate such a common word. DmitryKo 19:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Translations

Here are literal translations of the Anthem; they seem redundant because English lyrics are adequate enough to give a faithful representation of the original, so I decided against including them in the article.

Still, since Wikipedia isn't paper, shouldn't we include it just for the sake of information? 24.10.139.96 02:38, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think it's unnecessary for the reasons stated above; I just want to add that describing the translation as adequate was incorrect on my part, it's in fact pretty good. BTW I'm surprised of the level of comprehence that is given to the topic; must be a leftist resource he he. DmitryKo 11:08, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But its already *here*, so why not put it out for everyone to see? I'm sure someone who is interested in the Soviet anthem would be interested in what they are really saying. Some of the lines are quite significantly different, and just for even trivia on the subject I think it should be added. There is no harm done, and we have something to gain. 24.10.139.96 19:58, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Since my literal translations were incorporated into the article (despite my concerns), I remove them from here. --DmitryKo 20:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't "Славиться" mean to be famous for? Славить means to sing the praises of something. I can see that cлавить is clearly the right translation, but the word in the song is also clearly reflexive. Is there a reason for that? Did the word's meaning change over time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.167.74.7 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Anthem of the Bolshevik Party

Гимн партии большевиков
Музыка А.В.Александрова, слова В.И.Лебедева-Кумача, 1938 год

Страны небывалой свободные дети,

Сегодня мы гордую песню поём

О партии самой могучей на свете,

О самом большом человеке своём.

Припев:

Славою Ленина, волею Сталина,

Крепни и здравствуй во веки веков

Партия Ленина, партия Сталина

Мудрая партия большевиков!

Страну от Кремля создала на земле ты

Могучую Родину вольных людей.

Стоит как утёс государство Советов,

Рожденное силой и правдой твоей.

Припев.

Изменников подлых гнилую породу

Ты грозно сметаешь с пути своего.

Ты гордость народа, ты мудрость народа,

Ты сердце народа и совесть его.

Припев.

И Маркса и Энгельса пламенный гений

Предвидел коммуны грядущий восход.

Дорогу к свободе наметил нам Ленин

И Сталин великий по ней нас ведёт.

Припев.

I appreciate the input, but I think the Anthem of the Blochevik party needs its own article. Sure, it could be linked and cross-refferenced to the Athem of the USSR (this article in question) --Pinnecco 15:27, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

The Anthem of the Bolchevik party was added to this article without a proper discussion. As I said above, I don't think it should be there. Anyone care to discuss? --Pinnecco 09:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Recording on Here

Hey Yall, the recording of the hymn was from the 1944-1955 Version (with the Stalinist lyrics). Do you wish to have an instrumental recording for use on here, since it is also the hymn of the Russian Federation? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:59, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

The more, the merrier... Rama 17:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I will talk to my friend, who runs the website Hymn.ru. I will try to see if I can use a few recordings from there. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:22, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Paul Roebeson's translation is good for singing, as he was both a native English speaker and a musical type, and so saw the need for a translation that fit the rhythmn of English. I notice that all the other English versions seem to have a line missing in the chorus when compared to the music - is this because there are more sylablles in the Russian, or are you supposed to repeat the first line of the chorus twice? The article could use a clarification of this point.

There is a recording of Roebeson singing his translation on YouTube. Learn the Stalin-loving third stanza by heart, and sing it whenever the current Russian anthem is played; impress your friends by knowing all the words! 81.79.244.73 (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Sovetskogo

Should it be "Sovetskogo" or "Sovetskovo"? I'm confused... AnonMoos 17:06, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It should be "Sovetskogo" (the way it's spelled in original Russian). It does sound like "Sovetskovo" (or, rather, "savetskava") when pronounced, though.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 17:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Too many versions

Whe the hell there are like dozen transliterations and translations of the anthem? I'd only leave Russian lyrics and English lyrics and remove multiple transliterations... for now, I've removed ISO-9 transliteration and junk machine translation. --DmitryKo 20:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, another version of 1944 literal translation is probably a failed amateur attempt to create a poetic translation by assembling pieces from various sources (and I think I can craft it better than him... ha ha), so it should be removed. --DmitryKo 22:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Popular culture

re: the popular culture section; Pinnecco may be right about it not belonging. my justification was that the soviet anthem seems to have a larger and more memorable presence in films and such than any other anthem that I can think of. . But I am of course open to discussion on whether this is the right place for this or not. Twoblackeyes 7 August 2006

Seems appropriate to me. It might even help a reader recognize it. Couldn't hurt to expand the section, though. AEuSoes1 23:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it should be there. We already got some nonsense being added to this section (which I removed). --Pinnecco 09:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Sung without lyrics?

According to the article, the national anthem was "sung without lyrics" for over two decades. Can I ask how? --Kizor 00:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"played" without lyrics... :) --Pinnecco 10:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm German (West) and non-communist, but I have to say this is by far the most impressive anthem when you hear it and don't understand the lyrics. sorry! had to say this though this is not the place for it.

Well it is often consired as such by many "athem enthusiasts". Why don't check out websites related to the topic? --Pinnecco 15:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

"Parody" version from 1991

Anyone think this version is worth linking or mentioning? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49iLCK4p0w4 Produced in 1991 in the last months of the USSR. Very "modern" (well, by late 1980s standards haha) pop music rendition, passed off as "parody" but seeming to be pretty genuine feeling and with a mix of 1944 and 1977 lyrics. Murple 06:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Funny, but hardly encyclopedic. Sorry, I'd say it has no place in Wikipedia.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 21:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Eh, this doesn't warrant the title of "parody".

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.7 (talk) 02:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

I don't know if it's encyclopedic enough, but i'm glad that i saw it. Actually, it's so great that it made me cry. It's not really a parody - the lyrics are the same (they even incorporated parts of the older versions, without mentioning Stalin) and the video collage shows respect for the greatness of the USSR and doesn't criticize it.

Surely, it's a bit escapist, but it does make me think how would the world look if there was more freedom of speech in the USSR, but the August 1991 coup would never occur.

At least some of the singers there are very popular, btw. --Amir E. Aharoni 10:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sung in 1942?

The anthem is also featured in the World War II epic about the Battle of Stalingrad, Enemy at the Gates. However, the lyrics used are from the 1977 version, and, since the movie was set in 1942, any form of the anthem used is in error as The Internationale was still the Soviet national anthem.

But since it was the Bolshevik party's anthem before it became the Soviet Union's anthem, an early version of the song might have been sung then. 4.243.149.242 21:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Other languages

Was there a Ukrainian? Uzbek? Estonian? Tajik version? 68.49.242.230 04:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)ahassan05

Hymn of the Soviet Union (other language versions) --Explendido Rocha 06:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

There was also a German and Hungarian version. There was an English version by Paul Robeson. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 06:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Pop culture section

Some seem to have the opinion that there shouldn't be a pop culture section in this page. While there doesn't seem to be an official policy, according to WP:IPC, popular culture sections should be avoided. The statement by Ezhiki that popular culture references are not encyclopedic enough is in disagreement with much of the content of Wikipedia, which is very pop culture heavy.

The most compelling argument that I've seen (again by Ezhiki) is that popular culture references are not under the scope of this article. I'd say that it's reasonable to include them in this article, but if not then we can certainly have an article titled something like National Anthem of the Soviet Union in popular culture. I'd prefer simply having it as a section in this article rather than a whole article on its own since it would only be a stub on its own.

Another possibility is to simply have a few pop culture references embedded in the article. I know the movement against trivia sections prefer that alternative and I don't see why that wouldn't be an agreeable solution. Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the trivia section, in my opinion, is that it mostly lists movies the song was in (I can think of several others you missed, but that isn't the point) and that bands covered it. With the Russian Federation adopting the music as the anthem again, many more bands will do the anthem. An article would be a bad idea, since articles like this "Plot of X" "Y in popular culture" are sent to AFD and routinely deleted. I highly suggest we keep the trivia section out. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 07:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Zscsout—this is my point exactly. I don't generally have a grudge against trivia and/or pop culture sections when they bear relevance to the article, are encyclopedic in content, or at least lighten the article up somewhat by providing curious facts. A plain vanilla list of movies (and incomplete at that) where the Soviet anthem was featured does not meet any of those criteria. It was boring and useless, and that's that.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

You both offer compelling arguments. I guess the best thing to do is maybe mention that it is occasionally played in movies and mention one or two as illustrative examples. Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 01:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I do not know if I wish to go that far (yet). If the article was expanded, I would maybe do the Rocky IV tie in. But in most other cases, it is not notable at all. (BTW, as for the example yall missed, the anthem was played during the movie Red Dawn). User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

original, transliteration, and translation in parallel

I made a version of this article with original, transliteration, and translation in parallel for the three songs in the article.[1] I'm not convinced that this is the best format as a page, as there are so many options, so I would like some feedback on these edits if anyone has any to offer. I'm uncertain since some of the renditions are in single columns but it sure helps me while reading each song to have the three side by side. Maybe the renditions in single columns can be grouped with others even so that they are in sets of two columns, and the rhythm would alternate: 3 columns 2 columns 3 columns 2 columns 3 columns for example. Or maybe I should just revert the changes I made, as I'm not sure about the rhythm: 3 columns 1 column 1 column 3 columns 1 column 1 column 3 columns as the article is now. Before, the rhythm was: 2 columns 1 column 1 column 1 column 2 columns 1 column 1 column 1 column 2 columns 1 column. Looking at it now it looks good to me however, I guess I just want to hear what other people have to say. dvdrw 04:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Canada?

Was a Canadian really involved? Even though the source agrees with what was put into the article, I'd err on the side of caution and not include it---because essentially what it looks like to the lay man are the effects of "whoa, here's an interesting thing, I should put it on Wikipedia" AND the Canada-peacocks. Anyway, the source doesn't seem to be suitable, it is more like a brochure, with what seems to be a casual/jocular pro-Canada stance to encourage (pro-Canada) patriotism in the students who read it.

Challenged, under WP:BURDEN. Find an independent non-Canadian source.ы 118.90.66.84 (talk) 13:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

And anyway, the article on Sergey Mikhalkov says

Mikhalkov wrote new lyrics in 1970, but they were not submitted to the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet until May 27, 1977. The new lyrics, which removed any reference to Stalin, were approved on September 1 and were made official with the printing of the new Soviet Constitution in October 1977.

So it probably was Canada-peacocking after all. 118.90.66.84 (talk) 07:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

ummm... that Sergey Mikhalkov article has an unreferenced tag, and that particular passage you quoted is followed by a little . WP:BURDEN, yourself. 134.117.148.184 (talk) 22:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The Cite Needed was added after 07:44, 22 August 2008... 118.90.89.88 (talk) 10:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Hymn

The word "hymn" in this case is used not in the American understanding of "religious song" but in the way Europeans use it to describe national songs---anyone watching the Olympics (any one of them) will have heard many times in French, the announcement "the national hymn of N." ... 118.90.66.84 (talk) 13:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

This is not the French Wikipedia, though. Only the meanings of the words in English matter here.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:36, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

How is it a national anthem?

The Soviet Union comprised itself of many nations and its federative units were the nations recognised; I believe it should be called either 'State anthem' or 'Anthem' with nothing added to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.7.131.102 (talk) 19:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess "National Anthem" is used here as a catch-all/generic phrase for state patriotic songs. I guess the thing above with the USSR being a union of republics spins off into arguments whether we should use the subjects' own terminology in their own sense when writing, like the "Commonwealth" arguments for various US states or "Nation" arguments for the UK.

I personally don't think that's a good thing to do, since it shows an inability to distinguish "work" (what they do) from the motivations for work (why they do it)---e.g. "Nation" in the UK sense, really is just a phrase for subdivision of a sovereign state. Anyway, point is I think that "National Anthem" is alright, or "State Hymn" to sidestep the issue by using the translation of the proper noun.

The problem with this particular anthem is that "State Hymn of the USSR" is deliberately made to be a generic name, and I have a feeling that (as described above) the unfamiliarity of American readers of the word "hymn" in a non-religious sense was the main reason why "National Anthem" was substituted in its place. One forgets that the word "anthem" itself describes a type of religious song, so it really is a case of replacing American idiom for European.

Sorry for writing too much and giving an answer you didn't want! :p 118.90.93.249 (talk) 14:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Russian anthem? (as opposed to Soviet)

I have a recording of a Red Army Chorus singing various songs. The second last track is this song, the one we all know as the Soviet national anthem. However, the very last one is listed as the Russian National Anthem, and is something quite different. Anyone know what it is, or why it is not listed on here?

It is sung to the same tune as "the Patriotic Song", but appears to be Soviet era. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:08, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the recording is from the brief period during 1990–1991 when the Patriotic Song was the anthem of the RSFSR, yet it was still part of the USSR. 118.90.28.56 (talk) 23:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

IPA Transcription

It seems to match up to how the text of the anthem would be spoken, but in no recording of either the National Anthem of the Soviet Union or of the Russian Federation have I heard наше свободное as [na.ʂɨ svɐˈbod.nə.jɪ].