Talk:Caster Semenya

Controversy

Regarding the controversy regarding the gender of this athlete during the 2009 Athletics world championships - the 'innocent until proven guilty' rule applies. Recent edits to this entry includes references such as 'he/she' - these should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noswal (talk • contribs) 06:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Gender contraversy is not a "guilt" but uncertainty, thus he/she describes the gender better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 06:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC) I made an edit that omits the use of he or she, thus achieving neutrality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 06:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Removing all references to he/she is not 'neutrality'. If you think it is you really shouldn't be attempting to edit an encyclopedia. As of 20th August 2009 Caster Semenya is a woman and competes in athletics as a woman. To suggest otherwise, even by the use of gender neutral language, is to use Wikipedia to support unproven rumour or hearsay. This article should be reverted until the results of any gender test are known. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 07:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Semenya is participating as a women, but is she a woman is under the question, it is a fact to be revealed not a popular vote or discussion. And besides, I do not think that you are to tell on how I should think or whether I should or should not edit anything. --Laberzs (talk) 07:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Presumably you can now go and edit the Lady Gaga article to a 'gender neutral' POV because of rumours about her anatomy? Semenya's status has not changed to 'gender unknown' just because the IAAF has requested a test. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 07:32, 20 August 2009

• • • • • Lady GagGa is a man ??? Blimey !

This article discusses the difficulty of determining a person's male or female sexual identity. It says we are all a mixture of both, neither 100% male or female. Maybe Caster is just unlucky she looks like a geezer, or maybe she could be like Stella Walsh who won Olympic Gold despite having male AND female genitalia. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1208012/Woman-man-little-bit-How-deciding-Caster-Semenyas-gender-complex-think.html

(UTC)

• • • • I will do that after IAFF will request Lady Gaga's gender to be verified.--Laberzs (talk) 07:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• • • • • I'm going to attempt to revert this. There are two possible scenarios that I see. In the first case, Ms. Semenya is a biological female, and therefore the article must be written with this in mind. In the second case, she is a biological male or gender-ambiguous, but Wikipedia policy, as seen in, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Carlos, and in the spirit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons, is to refer to people, especially living people, in the gender with which they identify. Wikipedia policy is to do this immediately without discussion. malenkylizards 74.10.227.130 (talk) 13:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
          • Since Semenya being male implies cheating, writing "he/she" is equivalent to writing "murderer/innocent man". GregorB (talk) 14:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment. We have a standard on Wikipedia that living people are accorded dignity to be represented as the gender identity they clearly use. In most cases a person lives as a woman or a man and is referred to using the appropriate gender pronouns. No matter the test results Semenya identifies as a woman and will be referred to as such until she self-identifies otherwise. -- Banjeboi 20:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Even if the IAFF decided she cannot compete as a woman, that would not mean it is appropriate not to use the female pronoun in this article. The IAFF ruling only extends to her sporting engagements, it does not make it acceptable or appropriate for an encyclopedia to refer to her in any other way for as long as she self-identifies as female. JackAidley (talk) 21:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This individual is neither lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender as far as anybody here knows (at this point in time) so why does this come under the scope of the LGBT portal ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.141.138 (talk) 06:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably because an article about someone whose gender has been challenged has similar issues to articles about trans people, so the LGBT project has interest and expertise in the relevant issues. --Alynna (talk) 11:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Gagagagagagagagagagagagagagagaga. your all sick. her surname spells semen and men and semeny why is this. man is there too and anas. there is no w or o. its really cruel to dicsuss her like this. stopand leave her alone and let her win her medals and do her running and stop. omg is she gay now???? but no gender at all at all. i wonder how she manages to go to the tiolet. oh she's like a mudrerer for going out and running. show us her ginetalea. can they bend sideways can they or where will I rub them? no <makebig>stop</makebig> cruelity! pooor woman shocking treatment from here people! she's a human bean unless she's not! shes like a child so would you do this to a child. you would shocking. and don't delete people who stick up her. shame on those who arint a women for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.180.121.117 (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.196.55 (talk)

Female or male

Hmmm I draw your attentions to Stella Walsh and Sarah Gronert... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.126.97 (talk) 08:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Have a look at the pictures in this article.

[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laberzs (talk • contribs) 10:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily so. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foekje_Dillema She was a dutch athlete expelled from womans events, but based on recent rules of IOC would have been allowed to race today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.95.200.218 (talk) 17:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone noticed that he/she has a male name? It is an odd name too, for an African.

We should presume that Caster Semenya is a female until it is established otherwise.

It is said that there is a higher proportion of hermaphrodites amongst Bantu. That may be so. If Caster is a hermaphrodite, is he male with female characteristics, or female with male characteristics?JohnC (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC).

• 3年B組金八先生 女形競艶（Opinion by UEHARA Suguru） —Preceding unsigned comment added by 43.244.23.150 (talk) 10:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

According to a yet unverified press report the Athletics South Africa conducted a gender test already in March. The result was that Caster Semenya is definitely intersexual. This result was withheld both from her, her family and the IAAF. It is being speculated that Athletics South Africa and its head coach used medications to bring her testosterone to normal levels for doping checks. 84.188.147.190 (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Blick is probably reliable, but if it's true it will be picked up by other sources soon enough. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I think Semenya is a she by dint of self-identification, and that Semenya is perhaps intersexual by biology. I also think the test should be called a "biological sex test" and not a "gender" test. Gender is a person's identity and sex refers to a person's biological characteristics in the appropriate areas. 68.32.48.221 (talk) 00:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)