Talk:Sonic & Knuckles

Sonic Timeline

As it may be seen at the begging of "Sonic III", it is a direct sequence of "Sonic II": just after returning from the Death Egg on the plane piloted by Tails, Sonic jumps out after Knuckles.

"Sonic & Knuckles", on the other hand, would be placed between "Sonic I" and "Sonic II". Do you agree with it? Tonyjeff 20:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

The whole point of Sonic & Knuckles is that it takes place the INSTANT after Sonic 3. The title screen even depicts the Death Egg falling from near-orbit, thanks to Sonic at the end of the Launch Base Zone, as shown even more clearly if you play "Sonic 3 & Knuckles". And if Sonic & Knuckles takes place before Sonic 2, why isn't Knuckles in the plot of Sonic 2? The Genesis/Mega Drive Sonic games all seem to take place in the order they were released, if you ask me. The only truly perplexing continuity issue in the entire franchise is Sonic CD, in my honest opinion, though even that would seem to take place between the first two games when you consider Sonic 3 most definitely happens right after Sonic 2.

The start of Sonic 3 doesn't begin with Sonic jumping out after Knuckles. According to the instruction manual, Sonic and Tails just happened upon the Floating Island/Angel Island. Knuckles, brainwashed by Dr Robotnik, ambushed Sonic who still had the 7 Chaos Emeralds from the end of Sonic 2.

I'm sure we'll all be willing to take your idea on board if you can back it up well enough. Is there anything else you feel suggests Sonic & Knuckles goes between the first two games? --L T Dangerous 15:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I really don´t know exactly, as I think it would be much more a gossip I heard off from some VG magazine by the time. All that I remember is that Knuckles wouldn´t appear during the "normal" "Sonic II" because he would be occupied with his own business; however, since you can play "Sonic" II WITH Knucles, it would suggest that he already exists by the time. But anyway, I feel that you are plenty right, as S&K wouldn´t fit that well between the first two games... Do you think it is possible to trace a Chronological line with all the games of Sonic for the 4 and 8 bits generations? Just another day I came through two games with Tails released for Sega Master System (Mark 3). You could state where each game fits and the basic reasons for that (as you have just done). There´s also "Knucles Chaotix" released for Sega32X which could reveal something relevant for the main canon. 201.6.186.233 10:13, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Sonic 3 is a direct seuqel to Sonic 2. After Sonic took down Mecha-Robotnik, the Death Egg ended up falling into the Floating Island, causing it to fall into the ocean below. If you take a close look at the opening to Sonic 3, Sonic and Tails never go up at all until after they get to the island. During Launch Base, the Death Egg rises from the island...and slams back into it again. Sonic 3 isn't a "right after" sequel like S&K was but it does link back to Sonic 2. I'll quote the exact part of the manual when I get home. 209.115.232.94 19:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

About Sonic CD this cannot take place before Sonic 2 and I only have one pice of evedence. The Robotic Sonic. I mean look we have in Sonic 2 a pretty basic and chunky robot wich is nothing like the blue blur. and now look at S3&K another Sonic robot is introduced. Another chunky robot though this one is fast he still is not a very good copy. Now look at Sonic CD we have another Sonic robot Metal Sonic this is the sonic robot we see most in the series and it is (in my oppionion) the most advanced by far it (he?) is fast it is small it is sexy. So if so then it would go like this. (I am not including the handheld consoles for now). Crap Sonic robot>>>>>cool sonic robot>>>crap Sonic robot.

So in conclusion I say that Sonic CD must come after Sonic 2/3/&K. -unregistred user Koryan

But Sonic CD and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 was developed by other dev teams, at the same time; Sonic 2 was developed in USA while Sonic CD was developed in Japan. So the Sonic 2 dev team was not aware of Metal Sonic and the Sonic CD dev team was not aware of Silver Sonic. Also, Tails does only appear as an hidden picture, triggered by an cheat code. So Sonic CD must go after Sonic 1 but before Sonic 2 GG. End of (off topic) discussion. NeoDoubleGames 17:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

You should really look at the magazine entitled Sonic's First. It clearly shows that you don't see Knuckles untill Sonic takes a vacation on Angle Island. End of story, bye bye, see you later! Saprissy (talk) 16:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Deadline Trouble

The text below was originally on the main page, but really needs a grammatical cleanup and some verification of the data. I've taken the liberty of removing the text and placing it here until that can be accomplished.

Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles are the same exact game, but Sonic 3 had to be released before they could finish it at sonic team, proof in this is the fact that the Flying Battery zone's title card, music, and bosses, were left in the game, they will also load up if you force the level, also the game concept art of the robots from Flying Battery Zone appeared in the Sonic 3 manual. They split the game and released sonic 3 because of the deadline, but in addition to this, they were able to make a knuckles in sonic 2 patch for sonic 2.

--Technogeek 05:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

It's true. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was originally devised as one game, but time restraints eventually caused Sega to split it in two halves. As mentioned above, music from Sonic & Knuckles stuck in Sonic 3, as well as a few levels. If you enter the level select, you can even see some of Sonic & Knuckles' levels. Apparently the original order was a bit different as well. I agree it has to be rewritten though. --Steerpike 10:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

3 Player

I was told by someone that you could get three player when you locked in Sonic and Knuckles with Sonic 3. However it was only shown if you had the 4 player addon thing. I was wondering if someone can varify weather this is true. If it is I belive the page should be updated as needed. - Jedaz 12:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

False rumor. Jedi6 22:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Intro paragraph trimmed

This is pretty minor, but since I removed content I feel I should explain. This doesn't make much sense to me:

In fact, the minboss music is most likely a remix of Sonic 1's Marble Zone music.

A sentence that begins with "In fact" should not then immediately say "most likely," as that indicates that it is not a fact, but merely an opinion. I removed (well, commented out) that sentence, but if someone can verify that the music is a remix, please rewrite and put it back.

Rassilon 15:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fake to me

The members of [the Simon Wai's Sonic 2 Beta Page forums] have interviewed many of the creators of the games and such a statement has never come up. While there are many that we still have yet to contact, the fact that none of them have mentioned this fact coupled with the fact that several communities based on the games have yet to notice this remixing, I think it's safe to say that the remix idea is too much of a stretch. If anyone can provide incontrovertible proof to the contrary, of course, I'll eat my words.

SoNick Belmont 02:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

clean-up

In accordance with the article on Sonic 3 I've drastically cut down both the level and trivia sections. The level section is just meant to be a short description of each zone and nothing more (although in all fairness, I have to admit that it was probably me who once wrote those lengthy zone descriptions :) ). I did retain the differences between Sonic and Knuckles. The trivia section was getting way too long and got littered with useless info. I took the liberty of cutting out the more arcane trivia "bits". --Steerpike 13:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I've added a section the Death Egg in regards to Knuckles's route. If you want to alter the text so it's shorter feel free to do so since it dose extend the Zone's description abit.

"BETA Route: Within Death Egg there is an alternate route with obsitcles designed for Knuckles to pass through. It is accessible via Debug mode and going down and then right. The route joins with the default route prior to the boss fight, where there is a fall that instantly kills whoever falls down. Along here is the one way door that Knuckles would use to enter Sonics route."Dark-Chaos 19:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see this info as being relevant actually. --Steerpike 20:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Super Emeralds

In the article, it says that if the Super Emeralds are attempted but not collected, that the game reverts to the bad ending. This is not true.

It IS true. NeoDoubleGames 17:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Questionable

In the Level Select screen accessible by a code at the title screen, Hidden Palace does not appear, instead indicated in the menu as Lava Reef 4. Likewise, the Lava Reef Act 2 boss is actually coded under Lava Reef 3. This is the only time a Zone has been given a fourth Act, the previous maximum being three (all Sonic 1 Zones, Metropolis Zone of Sonic 2). This record is broken by Knuckles' Chaotix, where each Zone has five Acts.

I really don't like this much, because I feel it makes much more sense to look at this only in the sense that there really wasn't room for them to put a specific space for Hidden Palace or Death Egg Act 2 part 2.

Bonus stages

It seems the original numbers were correct (20-34 rings = slot machine, 35-49 = magnet tower, 50-65 = gumball), but I have got bonus stages above 65 rings as well, although I got the magnet tower that time (only tested this once). INVERTED 12:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the correct order above 65. It's likely the same pattern that repeates over and over again. 65-79 is roughly the slot machines, 80-90 the magnets and around 100 the gumballs. Regardless, this information doesn't really belong in the article. I doubt the casual reader finds any value in this at all. --Steerpike 12:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Lock-on Pictures

I removed the two lock on pictures from the main article and moved them here. I think we should only keep the second (S&K with S3 on it), but the image would be better if it was transposed. --Steerpike 12:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The "lock-on technology" of the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge

File:Sega Genesis- Sonic & Knuckles locked on to Sonic3.jpg

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 locked on to Sonic & Knuckles cartridge

Bit of trivia

In the Knuckles storyline, the Robotnik bosses are all the Egg Robos, except for the Flying Battery Zone boss, which is clearly still Robotnik. If this is worth adding to the article, could somebody else do it? I am having difficulty wording it... it keeps coming out sounding really stupid. (Maybe it just is!) -- DocSigma 17:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is. This bit of trivia was actually in the article until recently but I cut it out. I just fail to see the relevance of this information to the game Sonic & Knuckles. Only nerds could possibly be interested in this, and in that respect, there are a ton of other sites on the net to provide those obscure details. --Steerpike 19:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Not really. I think it's important to include such information to keep the article completely comprehensive, as Knuckles' timeline runs after Sonic's. --Tr33zon 10:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

So what if only "nerds" would care? Probable statistics are that most people reading this article are, in fact, "nerds".KeineLust90 23:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

For pity's sake. That was just a mistake on Sonic Team's part! They forgot that the FBZ doesn't use the custom Eggman sprite (unlike other the bosses), so they forgot to create a Eggrobo sprite for this zone's boss. It's not meant to have any significance in the story! —Preceding unsigned comment added by ESE150 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Zones Section

We need to put more information on the Zones, all the zones have short information and they haven't got the boss information, as well as the Badniks. If we can complete this section, then ALL the article will be complete.
200.55.109.224 01:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Sonic/Knuckles Timeframe

You can't base that information on Original Research. If you make an absolute claim such as this, you need to have a direct source provided for it. Whether or not certain landmarks are there during either game is irrelevant. For example, how do we know that neither game replaces the other as the "canon" version of events (such as in a Resident Evil game)? How do you know that Sonic AND Knuckles' games both took place, much less in what order?King Zeal 15:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm I suppose that is possible, but I'm not using any original research, just putting in facts that are observed in gameplay. We'd probably have to e-mail Yuji Naka to figure this one out. Ashura96 16:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Observed facts" is original research. Wikipedia requires that any information put into its article has to be cited with a verifiable source. What you "observe" is merely that there are differences between Sonic and Knuckles' stages throughout the game. However, you cannot provide your own logic and state that one takes place AFTER the other unless there's something that directly states such. Otherwise, it is original research. King Zeal 17:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Project Chaos

I changed the Project Chaos link to point to its actual homepage. The original wiki article along with several others about OC ReMix's projects was deleted after AfD (for lack of notability). 151.20.159.186 10:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sonic & Knuckles Lock-On Technology merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Merge done. Miremare 17:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

There's been a template proposing Sonic & Knuckles Lock-On Technology be merged into this article for a while, but no discussion on here! Let's have it. As the technology wasn't used in any other game, it's a merge from me. Miremare 17:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I think so, too - if it's the only game that is using it, why does it need a separate article? The only problem is that the Lock-On Technology is quite a long article and it could be considered too long for a single section. It would be a shame to condense it. Monkey Chief 16:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It's quite long, but I don't think it's too long, especially considering the Sonic & Knuckles article is quite short. Miremare 17:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Un-merge lock-on technology?

Re. the above merge discussion:

Actually, the MSX has similar technology in certain Konami games [1]. Although not quite identical to Sonic & Knuckles’ lock-on tech, because most MSX computers have a secondary cartridge slot and there is thus no need for fitting an extra cartridge slot on top of a cartridge, the technology bears much resemblance. The changes resulting from combining two games vary from small visual changes or cheats, up to an extra level (Salamander + Nemesis 2). Most of the games actually have the features built-in and merely detect the presence of the other game, but at least one actually modifies the other game’s code before running it (King Kong 2 + Firebird). So, maybe a separate page for this kind of tech is warranted after all? Grauw (talk) 00:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

But did they run alone? NeoDoubleGames 17:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Sonic 3 and Knuckles

Is the complete game (i.e. Sonic 3 and Knuckles) available in other platforms or part of a compilation for other platforms? --Pinoysurfer 05:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, all the compilations that contain Sonic & Knuckles have both Sonic 2 & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles too. Miremare 12:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Image?

In the caption for the screenshot of Knuckles accessing an exclusive route, it says that he is in the "Marble Zone". There was no zone with this name in Sonic and Knuckles. I have never played the original Sonic the Hedgehog game, so the zone could be from that game. If so, it should be stated in the caption. Also, on the image tag, it says that the purpose of the image is "To show the hack." Is the entire zone a hack? The closest zone to the screenshot would be the Marble Garden Zone in Sonic 3. If it is a hack, however, why is it allowed on Wikipedia. I thought user-created hacks were forbidden. It is definitely not necesarry, in any case, because there are a multitude of other Knuckles-exclusive pathway throughout the game. The image might need to be removed. ISmellDonuts (talk) 14:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Marble Zone is in sonic 1 the hack is knuckles in sonic 1 zones 75.58.19.18 (talk) 00:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Knucklesmarble.png

The image Image:Knucklesmarble.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

This picture is not affiliated with 'Sonic & Knuckles' it all. NeoDoubleGames 17:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

ReWrite

Anyone mind if I go through the S&K Article, and suggest changes smiler to the ones I Made in the Sonic 3 article? 81.137.159.61 (talk) 11:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Virtual Console?

One of the listed platforms is "Virtual Console". While Sega does (apparently) plan to release Sonic & Knuckles on Virtual Console, they haven't done so yet. So, should "Virtual Console" be one of the listed platforms before it's actually been released there? Xmoogle (talk) 23:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

US Release Date

I noticed that the United States release date was October 17, 1994. I changed it to October 18, 1994 as that was the day it was actually released. If I am wrong, which I'm pretty sure of myself on this since I remember that day very clearly. Here's a site that supports my change. http://www.freewebs.com/sonic_x-treme/genesisgames.htm Joseppi84 (talk) 12:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)