Talk:Led Zeppelin

Influence/ Legacy Heading!!!???

Ok, we all know that Led Zeppelin is one of the biggest rock bands (after Beatles and Stones). Don't you think that we should have a legacy/ influence heading for this article, for one of the most influential music artists of all time.--115.186.73.203 (talk) 20:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

You can feel free to make one yourself, just find sources. Start Existing (talk) 21:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I've been working on a very well-referenced, comprehensive and unbiased legacy section and I'll add it soon. It goes pretty well with WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. Please do not remove/ revert until clarifying/ discussing here on the talk page. Thank you all. --Scieberking (talk) 15:54, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Recent edit warring by User:JohnLonnnnnn

This new ongoing edit war by User:JohnLonnnnnn needs to cease. His edit patterns clearly show bad faith in trying to add contradictory material to Led Zeppelin related pages that somehow reduce the band's impact on the genres of hard rock and heavy metal while at the same time puffing up the contributions of other acts. The user needs to start using this page to propose his changes to other editors and wait for consensus as to whether or not they are valid edits. Fair Deal (talk) 23:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Editor should stop re-adding unwanted text. Aussie Ausborn (talk) 23:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I have not tried to engage in an editing war, i was just trying to make the articles more accurate, and despite people's objections I complied and altered them further, still changing them more too people's liking, however, U seem to not want to acknowledge Led Zeppelin's influences, and the source and book in question did state the band to be influenced by those bands, and has nothing to do with deminishing the band's influence. I do feel u are taking a all-mightier then though approach, which is unfortunate, because i was just trying to make the articles more accurate and truthful, without taking from the band. : ) -Two, the Led Zeppelin ii source does not stat that the album inspired those bands, it says it implies a starting point for bands like that, it does not say directly "inspired", thats the truth. -I am not trying to cause any trouble, and I think its unfair that these articles, are heavy handed in altering, even though what i changed, fixed and removed was all valid. -The addition of Jeff Beck and his album was not added with malice, I just felt it was more accurate, and even though i altered it to even down played the reference, it still was removed. -The influences were from a book, and it was referenced and true. -Feel free to discuss with me, but i d feel u are being very unreasonable.--JohnLonnnnnn (talk) 00:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I have reviewed your edits and they do not look like they are not in good faith. You have continued to re-introduce content that tries to negate Led Zeppelin's musical contributions by introducing debate and contrary statements. The original text in the article never claims that the band is THE prime source or influence for the heavy metal bands that followed them. And the text does not deviate from its references to try and alter its meaning. If it were content that made bold matter-of-fact statements about a controversial topic then a counter-argument may be required. But in this case, and I believe it has been pointed to already, this topic is far from controversial. Comparisons to The Jeff Beck Group or Cream or The Jimi Hendrix Experience where impact and influence is concerned is simply not merited here. GripTheHusk (talk) 00:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I mostly disagree, and again i think u should read what i wrote and what i said above, an influences section is fully warranted, and beneficial, and the mentioning of those bands on Led Zeppelin ii, should say a start point of sorts, and not "inspiring" them. : ) --JohnLonnnnnn (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I do think its ridiculous that u wouldn't allow an influences sections, When the band was clearly influences by other bands and the source was a book. It has nothing to do with taking from other bands, and was just trying to make it more accurate. -Overpraise, and over protection of the band's article, is heavy handed, and its stuff like this that gives them a band name. - ALso the claims that Led Zeppelin II "inspired" those bands mentioned, is inaccurate, the source in question says it was a starting point of sorts for those bands. -When i added it was debatable or disputed that the album was the blueprint, i kept the other sources in, and added that Beck's Truth was also seen as such... It was not intent with malice, and the claim was paranoia and i think it should be kept in there, as it was influential on rock/metal works including Pages. That would have made it more balanced, while Still giving the band the cred that they have been given. -please discuss with me, but the edits to what i posted were unreasonable, considering i altered them even further to try and please everyone, yet still got removed. : )--JohnLonnnnnn (talk) 00:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The article on heavy metal music is where you need to take your debate. This article is about Led Zeppelin. And it contains only referenced information about the band and does not need non-subject material added in. Time-Life Magazine's 10 part documentary on the history of rock and roll does not use the term 'heavy metal' until it comes to content specifically about Led Zeppelin. Even though the same documentary, only minutes before the Led Zeppelin content is introduced, is focused on interviews with Jeff Beck and his career following his departure from The Yardbirds. There is nothing inaccurate about the wording in this article as, pointed out earlier, it makes no bold concrete claim on the subject of the genres birth. And as for contradictory material against the bands influence on the genre, the article already has that in abundance, including statements from the band members themselves about there own dislike of the term. GripTheHusk (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I see, but i still think a influences reference page is valid, and theres more debate too it, and other bands pages have em, i don't see why this one can't and why it wouldn't be cool. theres a plagiarism section, i don't see why an influences section would be seen as such a stretch. --JohnLonnnnnn (talk) 01:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

When you proposed this same idea under the account name "Johnnybritches" and it did not go anywhere did you not get the hint that is was unwanted content? An influences section for Led Zeppelin would contain content about Tommy Johnson and Willie Dixon and Muddy Waters. And the content relating to those artists is already in the article. Or in the articles about the individual members. It would not contain content about musicians and bands from the same era. Wether B (talk) 01:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he got the idea from Johnnybritches, and 115.186.73.203 and Start Existing above, they all seem to be on the same page. Sswonk (talk) 02:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Again theres no real reason why a influences page would not be acceptable. And this is the kinda thing that makes us look stupid in the eyes of others. If your gonna mention the bluesman, the other blues rock guys should be mentioned, and I think the only reason u don't want it is because u think it takes away from Zeppelin... but it doesn't.--JohnLonnnnnn (talk) 03:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Article for Page/Plant partnership

Hey, how bout we start an article on the songwriting partnership of Robert Plant and Jimmy Page? It was one of the best and it's totally famous. I can't believe we didn't think of it before. TheKing44444 (talk) 03:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)TheKing44444

Genre transcending!

Anyone else find this passage in the lead kind of ridiculous?

"However, the band's individualistic style drew from many sources and transcends any one genre. Their rock-infused interpretation of the blues and folk genres[5] also incorporated rockabilly,[6] reggae,[7] soul,[8] funk,[9] classical, Celtic, Indian, Arabic, pop, Latin and country.[10]"

I mean, c'mon, does reggae belong in the lead simply because they recorded one song with a reggae influence? I'm tempted to lay some s down for the six unsourced genres in that passage. I suppose "The Battle of Evermore" is the justification for Celtic? Let me guess, "Kashmir" is the justification for both Indian and Arabic? This is so silly. They don't "transcend" any one genre. They're a rock band. A rock band that dabbled in other genres with a handful of songs. 74.73.110.46 (talk) 19:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it is fine just the way it is right now. The band jumped genres and mixed styles frequently during their live performances going back to the days before they even had a recorded product. They often skipped through multiple genres within the same song, including reggae flourishes and Page's DADGAD experimentations. Peter Fleet (talk) 01:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC) Striking sock Rockgenre (talk) 01:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

That may be so, Peter, I've heard some interesting "Whole Lotta Love" medleys from them, but, c'mon, rockabilly, reggae, soul, funk, classical, Celtic, Indian, Arabic, pop, Latin and country? If anything, that stuff is footnote material, not lead material. What's Latin, "Fool in the Rain"? What's country, "Hot Dog"? Or is that rockabilly? What's classical? I mean, the Rolling Stones have probably recorded enough country to mention that genre in their lead, but Led Zeppelin?!? There is no good reason to put country in the lead of a Led Zeppelin article. Same goes for Indian, Arabic, etc. Heck, The Who recorded half a dozen surf rock songs, far more than Zeppelin ever recorded of any of these genres listed in their lead, but you aren't going to see Surf Rock in The Who's lead because it's just half a dozen songs. But Led Zeppelin record "The Battle of Evermore" and suddenly Celtic music is lead worthy? Seriously? 74.73.110.46 (talk) 15:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

(od) I am a member of the WP:Led Zeppelin project and contributor. To answer your question, yes, it is one of the least attractive sentences in the article. I believe it could be "Their rock-infused interpretation of the blues and folk genres[5] also drew influences from many other styles of popular music." This could then be footnoted with all of the other styles listed within the note with inline citations, instead of the pseudo-references that currently exist. Sswonk (talk) 15:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no issues with what the content is trying to convey. Re-wording it slightly would be OK but the genre jumping list should still be maintained. As mentioned before they certainly did merge several genres into their music including crossing multiple genres within a single track. What is In The Light... Arabic blues... Indian soul... Raga metal... . Using Sswonk's initial sentence combined with the list it reads Their rock-infused interpretation of the blues and folk genres also drew influences from many other styles of popular music including: reggae, soul, funk, classical, Celtic, Indian, Arabic, pop, Latin and country. ... it is not a false statement. If it were a false statement then it could be removed. But, in this case... in that wording... it is not a false statement. They did draw influence from all those elements. The Real Libs-speak politely 16:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Libs, in that this stuff isn't going in the lead as "Led Zepplin is a Raga-Metal/Arabic/Latin/..." etc etc, but it simply states that over the years, their music pulled from those styles. --16:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting it's false, but to 74's point, it isn't all that extraordinary for groups to have many influences as we all know. My proposal to footnote the balance of it is based on economy of words. As I have often thought, it is an ungainly sentence. Sswonk (talk) 16:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well... let's shorten it up a little then... Their rock-infused interpretation of the blues and folk genres also drew influences from many other styles of popular music including: Celtic, Arabic, Latin, funk, pop and country.... Funk is just soul on steroids... Indian is only found in Page's tunings but Arabic shows up quite a bit... Latin can cover (sort of) reggae... Classical?? thats JPJs background but not so much LZ... and pop... every band who gets a song on top 40 radio has a bit-o-pop in them. That shortens it to 6 examples... which is usually my threshold of example farming anyways. The Real Libs-speak politely 17:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

An addenenadumbdumb... lose country and just put rockabilly. There's 6. The Real Libs-speak politely 17:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Their rock-infused interpretation of the blues and folk genres also drew influences from many other styles of popular music including: Celtic, Arabic, Latin, funk, pop and rockabilly.

Who's that then? The Real Libs-speak politely 17:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

No objections here. Sswonk (talk) 17:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I prefer Sswonk's much more concise and elegant solution of saying they "drew influences from many other styles of popular music," but this six genre list is certainly an improvement. 74.73.110.46 (talk) 00:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

• I think it'd be good to put the longer version in the body of the article somewhere. A "Musical style" type section would be a good fit, but there's not one now. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Sure... a well cited 'musical style' section is always a good thing when an artist is diverse. You wouldn't do one for... say... AC/DC.... but for LZ it would be more than fitting. The Real Libs-speak politely 17:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

It would also make for good reading. 74.73.110.46 (talk) 00:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The horribly clunky sentence in question is still in the article. Why? 98.113.216.32 (talk) 23:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

First line, JPJ on mandolin?

It wasn't very often we see JPJ on mandolin do we want to include that? That would kinda be like listing everyone as back up sings aswell.Brando26000 (talk) 18:40, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Radio segment on the Band and Sources

I want to add information in regards to a radio segment that I heard on the band, tried to before, but it got removed. Are radio segments not allowed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickens (talk • contribs) 09:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC) Am I to assume that radio segments on the band can not be included as sources? I will add the information in, but if someone identifies that radio segment on song comparisons is not for inclusion, I'll find other information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickens (talk • contribs) 01:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's the the way around. If you have a source from a radio program(me) you should have the same citation as any other source and preferably include the time when the quote/info was said. It's not fro others to "disprove" what you have heard is incorrect --Candy (talk) 01:44, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

heavy metal first please

"The exact order and wording by editor consensus is: Hard rock, heavy metal"

The most sources point to Led Zeppelin as one of the pioneers of heavy metal. So why hard rock appears in front first? The Allmusic itself in its definition of heavy metal points Led Zeppelin as the first metal band ([Allmusic http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:655] says: Arguably the first true metal band, however, was Led Zeppelin. Initially, Zep played blues tunes heavier and louder than anyone ever had, and soon created an epic, textured brand of heavy rock that drew from many musical sources.). On the main page of Led Zeppelin at [Allmusic http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:wifexqe5ldde~T1], which reads: "Led Zeppelin was the definitive heavy metal band. It wasn't just their crushingly loud interpretation of the blues -- it was how they incorporated mythology, mysticism, and a variety of other genres (most notably world music and British folk) -- into their sound. Led Zeppelin had mystique. They rarely gave interviews, since the music press detested the band. Consequently, the only connection the audience had with the band was through the records and the concerts. More than any other band, Led Zeppelin established the concept of album-oriented rock, refusing to release popular songs from their albums as singles. In doing so, they established the dominant format for heavy metal, as well as the genre's actual sound."

We Have the film Some Kind of Monster Metallica, where the Father of Lars Ulrich explains the rise of metal in England with Led Zeppelin to the days of Metallica.

We are hit with the audience and critical Metal: the headbanguer's Journey (2005) showing that the hard rock bands have emerged since the early metal. The film also shows the Led Zeppelin as early metal and not hard rock. Please look at movie infos: [Definitive metal family tree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal:_A_Headbanger%27s_Journey#.22Definitive_metal_family_tree.22] "The chart from the film documents Dunn's view on the progression of 24 subgenres of metal that have spawned over time, while also attempting to list the prime examples of bands that fall into each category. Below is a typed version of that chart, which can be found on the second disc of the film's special edition DVD package.

The film's flow chart of metal genresEarly metal (1966−1971) Cream; Jimi Hendrix; Blue Cheer; Deep Purple; Led Zeppelin; MC5; Mountain; The Stooges; Black Sabbath"

Even as we call the sources that Led Zeppelin Metal: Kerrang Magazine February 2009: http://www2.kerrang.com/2009/01/kerrang_magazine_14012009.html Led Zeppelin and the birth of heavy metal!

"40 years ago this week a little known British band released their eponymous debut album and single handily changed the face of music forever. That band was Led Zeppelin and the genre they subsequently spawned became known as heavy metal. In this week's Kerrang! magazine we celebrate as metal turns the big four oh."

Chad Bowar: Metal Timeline: http://heavymetal.about.com/od/heavymetal101/a/101_timeline.htm

Black Sabbath Biography: http://home.att.net/~chuckayoub/black_sabbath/Black_Sabbath_Biography.htm Tony Iommi Biography by Greg Prato: "Black Sabbath's Tony Iommi is one of only two guitarists (the other being Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page) that can take full credit for pioneering the mammoth riffs of heavy metal." source: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:anfqxq85ldke

Judas Priest Biography by Stephen Thomas Erlewine & Greg Prato Judas Priest was one of the most influential heavy metal bands of the '70s, spearheading the New Wave of British Heavy Metal late in the decade. Decked out in leather and chains, the band fused the gothic doom of Black Sabbath with the riffs and speed of Led Zeppelin, as well as adding a vicious two-lead guitar attack; in doing so, they set the pace for much popular heavy metal from 1975 until 1985, as well as laying the groundwork for the speed and death metal of the '80s. source: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:kifrxqe5ldse

NWOBHM: The New Wave of British Heavy Metal re-energized heavy metal in the late '70s and early '80s. By the close of the '70s, heavy metal had stagnated, with its biggest stars (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath) either breaking away from the genre or sinking in their own indulgence, while many of its midlevel artists were simply undistinguished, churning out bluesy hard-rock riffs. The NWOBHM kicked out all of the blues, sped up the tempo, and toughened up the sound, leaving just a mean, tough, fast, hard metallic core. It didn't make any attempts to win a wide audience — it was pure metal, made for metal fans. Perhaps that's the reason why it's at the foundation of all modern-day metal: true metalheads either listened to this, or to bands like Metallica, which were inspired by bands like Diamond Head. Source: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:7760

BBC London: "Led Zeppelin were an English rock band formed in 1968 by Jimmy Page (guitar), Robert Plant (vocals, harmonica), John Paul Jones (bass guitar, keyboards, mandolin) and John Bonham (drums). With their heavy, guitar-driven sound, Led Zeppelin are regarded as one of the first heavy metal bands, helping to pioneer the genre!" http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/678d88b2-87b0-403b-b63d-5da7465aecc3

London BBC: Heavy Metal http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A353134

Rhapsody.com "There's been a lot of bunk stirred up about Led Zeppelin over the years. Accuse the band of blues-ploitation, accuse them of occultism, accuse them of selling out. Join, if you wish, the Lilliputian chorus assembled against them; or join the majority for whom mere mention of the band inspires awe. From the raw intensity of "Communication Breakdown" to the cosmic sonorities of "Kashmir" and dubbed-up funk of "D'Yer Mak'er," Zeppelin's music almost never fails to compel. In their prime, Robert Plant's vocal range seemed as wide as the Milky Way, while Jimmy Page set new standards for sloppy perfection on guitar. Meanwhile, John Paul Jones has only John Entwistle to compete with for the centerfold spot in the Who's Who of bass guitarists. And though John Bonham's aspirations ultimately proved to be his undoing, he is revered by many as rock's most powerful drummer. Together they developed the mother tongue from which every Metal dialect derives -- a tongue spoken in psychedelic blues phrases delivered at overdriven speeds. Inevitably, Zeppelin will continue to be passed down like a sacred amulet by older brothers, uncles, fathers and eventually grandfathers to new generations of adolescents getting hip all over again to bell-bottoms, long hair and marijuana."

Allmovie: The Song Remains the Same Plot Synopsis by Clarke Fountain In 1973, the seminal rock band Led Zeppelin, one of the founders of the music genre known as "heavy metal," went on tour and performed in Madison Square Garden. This documentary has concert footage, including the 23-minute-long version of the song "Dazed and Confused." The film also shows the musicians at home, pursuing some of their hobbies including drag-racing. The concert coverage also has scenes revealing what took place backstage, and a discussion of the theft of the band's cash during their visit to New York."

biography at Roling Stone http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/ledzeppelin/biography

VH1 - HISTORY OF HEAVY METAL http://www.vh1.com/shows/heavy_the_story_of_metal/episodes.jhtml

People Magazine: December 20, 1976 http://www.scribd.com/doc/15249041/Led-ZeppelinPEO-19761220-ISSUE

People Magazine: August 27, 1979 Vol. 12 No. 9 http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20074422,00.html

The Book Hammer of the Gods by Stephen Davis http://www.librarything.com/work/335340

HEAVY METAL BIBLE http://www.metalbible.com/heavy-metal-bands/l/led-zeppelin-2.html

Then Why hard rock first? Heavy metal must appears first. Paulotanner (talk) 23:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

To summarize all of the above stuff and references, Led Zeppelin helped invent Heavy Metal Music, but the band was/is not a heavy metal band. --Scieberking (talk) 23:12, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The sources did not say that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.67.35.253 (talk) 03:11, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism in the following text by Ricknupp and socks him. Here is the text in its stable form: "Led Zeppelin are regarded as one of the first heavy metal bands, helping to pioneer the genre.[1][2][3][4][5]

The sources are clear and diverse. Led Zeppelin was called heavy metal in his time and even today. [1]http://heavymetal.about.com/od/heavymetal101/a/101_timeline.htm Late 1960's - Early 1970's "The birth of heavy metal. Groups like Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple were the first heavy metal bands."

[2]http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A353134 This was the decade where HM first appeared as we know it, spearheaded by the likes of Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Motorhead, and Black Sabbath. It was rather tame compared to the HM you may be familiar with today, but still rather hardcore for audiences back then. These were the days before the likes of Slayer and Bathory.

[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal:_A_Headbanger%27s_Journey "Definitive metal family tree" The chart from the film documents Dunn's view on the progression of 24 subgenres of metal that have spawned over time, while also attempting to list the prime examples of bands that fall into each category. Below is a typed version of that chart, which can be found on the second disc of the film's special edition DVD package.

The film's flow chart of metal genres Early metal (1966−1971) Cream; Jimi Hendrix; Blue Cheer; Deep Purple; Led Zeppelin; MC5; Mountain; The Stooges; Black Sabbath

[4]http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:wifexqe5ldde~T1 Led Zeppelin was the definitive heavy metal band. It wasn't just their crushingly loud interpretation of the blues — it was how they incorporated mythology, mysticism, and a variety of other genres (most notably world music and British folk) — into their sound. Led Zeppelin had mystique. They rarely gave interviews, since the music press detested the band. Consequently, the only connection the audience had with the band was through the records and the concerts. More than any other band, Led Zeppelin established the concept of album-oriented rock, refusing to release popular songs from their albums as singles. In doing so, they established the dominant format for heavy metal, as well as the genre's actual sound.

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/ledzeppelin/biography It wasn't just Led Zeppelin's thunderous volume, sledgehammer beat, and edge-of-mayhem arrangements that made it the most influential and successful heavy-metal pioneer, it was the band's finesse.

That the text, added the sources above as it shows that they were called heavy metal in 1976.People Magazine: December 20, 1976 http://www.scribd.com/doc/15249041/Led-ZeppelinPEO-19761220-ISSUE

Or: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music#Etymology Creem critic Lester Bangs is credited with popularizing the term via his early 1970s essays on bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath.[55]

Kerrang! Magazine 14/01/2009http://www2.kerrang.com/2009/01/kerrang_magazine_14012009.html Led Zeppelin and the birth of heavy metal! 40 years ago this week a little known British band released their eponymous debut album and single handily changed the face of music forever. That band was Led Zeppelin and the genre they subsequently spawned became known as heavy metal.

The text can not fight against the sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.67.35.253 (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Let me be more clear about the issue. Please stop edit warring.

The First Source is NOT highly reliable and written by a semi-professional, Chad Bowar, who may appear to be an accountant, looks can be deceiving. About.com guides are notoriously controversial and they hire amateurs, more clearly "freelancers who work online and set their own schedules, giving them the flexibility to work when it suits them".

The Second Source from BBC is openly written by an outside contributor, not a music journalist, and thus lacks spontaneity or originality or individuality. Secondly this inexpert overview does not label Zeppelin (and even Cream and Jimi Hendrix) primarily as a Heavy metal band, but the pioneer or spearhead.

The Third Source even worse goes on to directly list Cream and Jimi Hendrix as "suspected heavy metal bands".....?

All Music Biography as a fourth source is highly reliable, but then again highly controversial. --Scieberking (talk) 12:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

The Fifth Source, RS Biography, to me, is the most reliable, and describes Zeppelin as a Heavy metal pioneer, not a so-called one-dimensional heavy-metal band. Secondly, if the article subject (Robert Plant and Jimmy Page) themselves maintain that labeling them as "heavy metal" is unfair and "defamatory", then WP:BLP recommends to omitt/ modify such information.

So in all fairness, "Led Zeppelin are regarded as one of the first bands that participated in the foundation of heavy metal music, therefore helping pioneer the genre." sounds just and is a good compromise. Now, stop edit warring. --Scieberking (talk) 12:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

The stable version was changed by personal journals of the time as people have called the Led Zeppelin's heavy metal.

People Magazine: August 27, 1979 Vol. 12 No. 9 http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20074422,00.html

Clearer than that? http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:655 "Arguably the first true metal band, however, was Led Zeppelin."

Keep fighting against Allmusic here: 1 http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:anfqxq85ldke 2 http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:kifrxqe5ldse 3 http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:7760

Chad Bowar is semi professional? WHO ARE YOU? http://heavymetal.about.com/bio/Chad-Bowar-17543.htm ".Chad is a longtime music journalist specializing in heavy metal and currently residing in Charlotte, North Carolina. Though he may appear to be an accountant, looks can be deceiving.

Experience: Chad has been involved in metal for over 20 years. He writes or has written for several national music publications including Outburn, Hails and Horns, AMP, Lollipop, Loud Fast Rules and more. He's done hundreds of interviews over the years with members of bands such as Judas Priest, Metallica, Cannibal Corpse, Queensryche, Sepultura, In Flames and more. In addition, Chad has covered events like Ozzfest, Warped Tour and the New England Metal and Hardcore Festival. He's also worked in radio for the past two decades at stations all over the country."

The Third Source wORSE? tHE MOVIE WITH metal gods like Ronnie James Dio? Alice Cooper? Bruce Dickson? Tony Iommi? Geedy Lee? They spoke abou heavy metal.

There are many sources as Paul brought up. There is a clear conflict of interest here by changing history. And you are allowing it. Keep feeding sock puppets and changing history. THIS is the story:

"People Magazine: December 20, 1976 Heavy Metal Gods By Jim Jerome It's the Critics, Not Led Zeppelin, Says Robert Plant, That Are Full of Hot Air Rock'n'roll is barely two decades old, but its historians have already determined its Dark Ages: during the decline of the Beatles' civilization but before the enlightenment of Los Angeles and Nashville had taken firm hold. That was the Heavy Metal Age, roughly 1969-71, when one group, Great Britain's Led Zeppelin, emerged as the genre's unrivaled sovereign. Heavy metal is the music that most closely commits artistic child abuse, aimed, as it is, at a constituency presumably under 18. Led Zep's pulverizing force has made it a sound to get cauliflower ears by and, as such, is preferably experienced in a semiconscious state. Yet, unintimidated by critics, rock fans all over the world scuffed up 24 million Zep albums (the group outsells the Rolling Stones' LPs in the U.S. by about two to one). It has also grossed some $15 million in concerts in the U.S., along the way breaking tour records of the Beatles themselves. Now there's another LP and a film of old concert footage-cum-fantasy sequences, both titled The Song Remains the Same. Though heavy metal has faded as an art form, Led Zeppelin continues to pillage and plunder the land, as ever the most puissant rock group on earth. The double LP, the group's first-ever live (not counting poor-quality bootlegs), has become their eighth platinum release (out of eight), and the film is now filling some 80 theaters across the U.S. It is little more than the group's home movie monument to itself, full of violent nightmares and narcissism, but it will gross another $3 million by Christmas.

I'm sorry but you is not the best person for this discussion. You are going through at least two sources that date from the 70th.

and the NEW

Kerrang! Magazine 14/01/2009 http://www2.kerrang.com/2009/01/kerrang_magazine_14012009.html Led Zeppelin and the birth of heavy metal!

You erased the history! Talk with LESTER BANGS and try AGAIN change the History of Rock! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music#Etymology Creem critic Lester Bangs is credited with popularizing the term via his early 1970s essays on bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath.[55]