Talk:Henry Morgan

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Origin

The Early Life section says that he was born in Germany, yet the infobox says Wales. Which is it?

I moved the pirate back here because Special:Whatlinkshere/Henry Morgan makes it clear that he's the primary topic. —Charles P. ^(Mirv) 23:10, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

One of the introductory paragraphs currently reads "Therefore it is more likely that he was the 'Captain Morgan' who joined the fleet of Christopher Myngs in 1663 and accompanied the expedition of John Morris and Jackman when the Spanish settlements at Vildemos, Trujillo and Granada were taken." This is confusing. "More likely" than what? Or, "he" who? Anyone with the expertise to clarify is encouraged to edit. Robert K S 17:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"He recaptured the island of Santa Catalina"--which Santa Catalina? The link currently leads to a disambiguation page, so it is impossible to tell which Santa Catalina is being referred to. Robert K S 17:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"When Thomas Lynch died in 1684, his friend Christopher Monck"-- Whose friendwas he? The way it is written sounds like he was Lynch's friend, but this doesn't seem to make sense in the context of the rest of the paragraph. Was Monck Lynch's friend or Morgan's friend, or should "friend" be dropped entirely? Demonbug 18:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In a documentary i heard he was born in Germany to his - there stationed - father and his german wife "Anna Petronella", who was the daughter of Lippstadt's mayor. source (german): http://www.prosieben.de/lifestyle_magazine/galileo/spezial/karibik/

Have added the missing parts of his half-German origin. Marcuse7 09:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see that my 2008 July 17 revision on "Distinction between Morgan the pirate and Morgan the privateer is blurry" has been undone. Based on historical accounts, I doubt that Morgan was only a privateer. The categorical statement at the beginning "Morgan [..] was a Welsh privateer" needs citations for verification. I wonder if his 'letter of marque' could be found somewhere. Were all Morgan's actions covered by his 'letter/s of marque'?. If citations for verification cannot be found, I propose that the introduction says "was a Welsh privateer and pirate" Grein (talk) 11:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I undid it because it was an unencyclopaedic entry and poor grammar. You illustrate everything that is wrong with that edit with the phrase "I doubt that Morgan was only a privateer", that is original research and completely unacceptable on wikipedia. Morgan had letters of marque^{[citation needed]}, he was a privateer, that is more than adequately supported by the references. And in reality I really don't understand why you feel there is much of a distinction between privateer and pirate, he was a brutal thug, and being a privateer does not change that. Justin talk 17:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MILHIST Assessment

Could afford to be longer. The intro sentence is beautifully succinct, but I wonder too about that. What else can be put here? LordAmeth 11:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

German Origin

A documentation reported, that his full name was Johann Henry Morgan, and that he was the son of a english officer in germany and a german woman. They reported, that he was born an raised in Germany. --DarkScipio 21:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What "documentation"? Who are these "they"? Morgan is a Welsh name. Descendents of Sir Henry's brother still live in Clwyd. --Wetman 15:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DNB says son of Robert Morgan of Llanrhymny, early education unknown; suggestions, but no evidence that he came to Jamaica as an indentured servant or a soldier in Cromwell's capture of Jamaica (and quotes his surgeon as saying he came there as a "private gentleman" in 1658, when he was about 23, and rose by valor.) If there were evidence for a German mother, or a kidnapping, they would say so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. DNB is reassuring: could you edit the reference into the article? --Wetman 06:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; both DNB and this article are long, so making them jibe will be a job of work. I'll put it on my agenda. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I marked the assumption that "Therefore it is more likely that he was the "Captain Morgan"..." who fought with Myngs with {{who}}. A perfectly reasonable speculation; I have no doubt someone made it, and it may well be consensus. More important than attribution is the wording: is this Henry or Edward Morgan? I would edit, but I'm not quite sure myself. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Africa

I doubt the part about the 20 women in Africa. In everything I ever read about Morgan, I don't remember him visiting Africa at all. I'll leave it in for now, in case somebody here can substantiate it. In the meantime, though, I'm going to move the tale to some place where it doesn't mess up the narrative of the Portobello attack. --Pirate Dan 19:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I have discovered that the story about the African women was added from a shared college IP address with a long history of vandalism. I'm going to delete the reference. Anyone who can find a source for the story is welcome to add it back in. --Pirate Dan 13:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

umm?

"In late 1665, Morgan commanded a ship in the old privateer Edward Mansfield's[3] " does this mean henry morgan's uncle or was this pirate so notorious that at 2 years of age he commanded a ship? or perhaps the date is wrong... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.146.227 (talk) 02:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that "De Americane Zee-Roovers" is not the dutch translation for "History of Buccaneers in America". I don't know what the right one would be, so I'm not going to touch it. 76.205.98.99 (talk) 01:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

privateer or/and Pirate?

I propose that a new section is created where the different views of 'Morgan the Privateer' and 'Morgan the Pirate' are presented. This is an ongoing debate in countries like UK, Spain, Peru, Colombia and Panama. Regardless of the material stating that Morgan had letter/s of Marque, at least some of his most well-known actions have been seen by many as the actions of a pirate. The supporters that Morgan was only a privateer can provide their references allowing the others to inform from different references.Grein (talk) 18:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think thats appropriate, Morgan WAS a privateer. He had letters of Marque and was acting with endorsement of the English crown. That said, that doesn't in any way reduce the fact he was a violent thug (in a way it makes it worse). Do you think being a privateer somehow makes his actions legitimate? Justin talk 18:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The thing is, accordign to at least some sources, Morgan never had a letter of marque to attack Panama in 1671. Modyford only authorized him to defend Jamaica from raiders. Furthermore, England and Spain were at peace at the time of the Panama attack, so a reasonable argument can be made that the attack was piratical. Pirate Dan (talk) 19:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are they reliable sources? There is plenty of POV material out there, I still don't understand why people feel it makes a difference. Justin talk 20:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What references are available regarding Morgan's Letters to Marque? It will be interesting to see the conditions, dates and objectives of these letters. Grein (talk) 14:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

reference for the battle at Maracaibo

Information about the battle at Maracaibo (where H. Morgan defeated the 3 Spanish ships and escaped Lake Maracaibo) can be found in pp 166-180 of The Buccaneers of America: In the Original English Translation of 1684 by John Esquemeling, Cosimo Classics Edition, ISBN: 978-1-60206-100-2.

I have no idea how to edit that into the page however. I hope someone can put it in, there is a "citation needed" thingy there now. (:

71.87.210.217 (talk) 03:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)EN[reply]

Its OK I'll do it for you later. Justin talk 10:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

yoyoyo waz up my people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.32.45.17 (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Morgan's arrival in Jamaica

Although I am pretty sure the History Channel claimed Morgan arrived in Jamaica with Penn's fleet, my understanding is that most people who studied Morgan concluded that he arrived later: we need a proper cite. Pirate Dan (talk) 13:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tone of article

Much of the article sounds as if it's been lifted from some hagiographic bio. It needs to be toned down for an encyclopedia, and sourced.--Parkwells (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Half of Wales Think they might be related to Henry morgan,but none can acctialy prove it, he was though to have had millions of pounds and ownd the whole state og Manhatten. If anyone in wales or anywhere is luckey enough to prove that they are inface related to him they may inherrit manhatten and all of his money in the bank, which has not yet been given to any of his ansesters as there have been no proven relatives as yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.57.169 (talk) 16:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Basic Standards

The only citation given for Morgan's invasion of Panama is "Carribean" by James Michener. That book is a novel, a work of fiction. Works of fiction, even when based on or referring to historical research, are not sources of factual information. Proper citation, at the very least, would refer to the sources Michener used to create his work of fiction. 76.23.157.102 (talk) 06:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]