Talk:Sun

Template:WP1.0

Orbital Characteristics from Scientific American

In the November 2009 issue of Scientific American, Zwart (a theoretical astrophysicist) lists the sun's orbital parameters differently. I don't know where the ones in this Wiki article came from, so I can't vouch for their accuracy. Should we upgrade to the following numbers?

The relevant passage:
"At the moment, we are located about 30,000 light-years from the center and about 15 light-years above the plane of the disk [of the galaxy], orbiting at a speed of 234 kilometers per second. At this rate, the sun has done 27 circuits since its formation."

APA citation:
Zwart, S. F. P (2009, November). The Long-Lost Sibliings of the Sun. Scientific American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.250.205 (talk) 18:26, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Binary

Is our sun part of a binary, where the other has since died? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.136.203 (talk) 11:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

An interesting hypothesis. It may also be possible that our solar system is binary, however we are too far away from the other star to notice it.--24.171.1.195 (talk) 01:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Chemical Composition

The article gives some fairly precise detail on the chemical composition of the photosphere and some sketch information about the chemical composition of the core of the sun, but it would be nice to also include some information on the _overall_ chemical composition of the sun. I have no access to either journals or textbooks, but this NASA source suggests some values: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/961112a.html. Perhaps someone could compare with some published authoritative source and add the information.

Consumption of hydrogen is wrong

In the Core section it says:

...converted into helium nuclei every second ... or about 4.4 × 10^9 kg per second,[49] releasing energy at the matter–energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second...

These two figures are near enough the same when the first should be very roughly 100x bigger, which suggests a mix up. The second one is probably correct but I don't have a figure for the first. Man with two legs (talk) 17:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

According to the Phillips source (Guide to the Sun, Cambridge University Press, 1995, ISBN 052139788X, p. 53) there are 9.2·10³⁷ occurrences of the proton-proton chain each second. Each such reaction uses four protons so the mass rate at which protons are converted into helium nuclei will be

9.2·10³⁷ sec^-1×4×1.007276 amu = 6.2·10¹¹ kg/s or so.

Since the mass of the helium-4 nucleus is 4.001506 amu and the proton mass is 1.007276 amu, each reaction liberates around (4×1.007276 − 4.001506)/(4×1.007276) = 0.68% of the fused mass as energy. So, the total mass conversion rate is 0.68% of 6.2·10¹¹ kg/s, which is 4.2·10⁹ kg/s or so. Multiplying this by c² gives the solar luminosity of 3.8·10²⁶ watts.

Spacepotato (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Lead section

This article has changed immensely since it was designated an FA. The lead, in particular, has gotten thick to the point of near-unreadability by the average person. There's simply too much detail for a lead. And yet, the lead also seems to be missing some stuff that it needs per the WP:LEAD requirement to be a summary of the whole article. I'm going to see what I can do in the next hour, but I doubt I can finish it in that time. Unschool 03:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've removed some detail that would be better left in the body (and, I'm guessing, is already there, though I have to go back and put it in the body if it is now missing), and I've really cut down on the numbers. This lead is supposed to be easily accessible, readable, to the average joe, and the numbers were simply unnecessary to convey the concepts, which is what the lead needs to do. Unschool 04:27, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Distance ambiguity

It is unclear whether the distance from the sun to the earth (149.6 units) is taken from the center of the sun or the surface of the sun. If from the center, the distance from the surface would be 148.9 units since the sun radius is 0.7 units. If from the surface, then one would have to add 0.7 to 149.6 yielding 150.4 units. This matter affects all planetary distances, not just earth-sun, but it needs to be clarified somewhere. 69.108.2.81 (talk) 21:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Ahad's Sphere

A moderately interesting theorem that computes how far Sol's light dominion spreads out into the universe in a spherical formation, is to be found on these links [1] [2]. My two cents of new wiki stuff for this morning, if you like to add it to the wiki page. Cheers to all.

That is a v.interesting theorem! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.117.27 (talk) 20:09, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The sun's radius is introduced indirectly a long way into the article with the phrase "200,000 km or 70% of the solar radius." If the solar radius is 280,000 km the article should say so early on.

Bukovets (talk) 12:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

The Sun v. the Sun

If someone puts in 'The Sun' into the search box, they are more likely to be looking for the newspaper of that name not the celestial body. Sam Blacketer (talk) 15:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

You mean we should redirect The Sun to The Sun (newspaper)? I think it is better to create a dab. Ruslik_Zero 16:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

This was extensively debated in late July, with the consensus being to move the newspaper's article to The Sun (newspaper), redirect "The Sun" to "Sun", and use the "Sun (disambiguation)" hatnote at the top of the page. --Ckatz^chat_spy 21:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, that debate came to the wrong decision. WP:THE is the guiding page and its application here is clear. I also dispute that the closer of the debate correctly determined consensus - certainly not on a pure vote count, and definitely not if established naming convention is given the greater weight appropriate. Sam Blacketer (talk) 22:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

If you feel that way, you can certainly ask for a review or a renewed discussion. However, it would not be appropriate to arbitrarily change the redirect without said discussion. I'd also point out that the earlier discussion did consider WP:THE, that the British paper (while certainly very popular) is not the only paper using that title, and that the original nominator actually changed his proposal in order to have "The Sun" redirect to "Sun". --Ckatz^chat_spy 23:09, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be reopened per WP:CCC. The point about the naming guideline is that it ought to have far more weight in the issue; it's effectively up to those arguing a different outcome to contend why the guideline should be ignored on this occasion. The original proposer of the move actually made his proposal more extreme, given that he started by proposing The Sun as a disambiguation page. There might be a case for a separate disambiguation page for newspapers called The Sun given that there is no article on the former London evening paper (1792-1871). Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

With regards to WP:CCC, yes, of course consensus can change - but that is usually considered in regards to long-standing matters when significant opposition arises, not relatively minor issues that were debated and concluded a short time ago. With regards to the guideline, the consideration was that in this case, "The Sun" was far more commonly thought to refer to the star rather than the other references, let alone to a single paper. In part, that reflects an international perspective. --Ckatz^chat_spy 23:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

If someone puts in 'The Sun' into the search box, they are more likely to be looking for the celestial body, not the newspaper. South Bay (talk) 01:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Name?

Shouldn't this article be named Sol or Sol (star)? UNIT A4B1 (talk) 02:41, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Short version, no. "Sol" is the proper Latin name, while "Sun" is the proper name in English (per the IAU). "Sol" is used in science fiction, but not in real-world applications. Similarly, the Latin "Luna" is not the proper English name for the Moon. For more on the Sun-Sol issue, search through the talk page archives, as it has come up repeatedly. --Ckatz^chat_spy 04:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

If you're interested in the Latin, you can read the Latin version of this article here. The Latin article is at "Sol", but the English should be at "Sun" for the reasons mentioned above. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 00:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

rename article to Sol

Please move this article to Sol, the sun's official name. Sun can also refer to a different sun or the philosophically scientific explanation of suns.--24.171.1.195 (talk) 01:22, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

The Sun is the Sun's official name. It's only called Sol in science fiction novels. Serendi^podous 01:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

editsemiprotected error? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

{{editsemiprotected}}

I have trouble reading the Corona section of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun. There may be a numeric error by a factor of 10 or others smaller. And a sentence with arithmetic seem out of order. Here is a replica of some of the text with my comments imbeded in square brackets. … the Sun releases energy at the matter–energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second… Power density is about 194 µW/kg of matter, though since most fusion occurs in the relatively small core the plasma power density there is about 150 times bigger. [Last phrase not clear. Why is the arithmetic done a sentence later, or is it?] For comparison, the human body produces heat at approximately the rate 1.3 W/kg, roughly 600 times greater per unit mass. [But 1.3/194µ = 6701, not 600] [per unit mass of the sun as a whole or of the core?] Assuming core density 150 times higher than average, this corresponds to a surprisingly low rate of energy production in the Sun's core—about 0.272 W/m3. [But 150(194 µW/kg) = 0.029 not 0.272] This power is much less than generated by a single candle... Edtakken (talk) 02:56, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

 Done Welcome and thanks for contributing. That portion appears to be a pseudo-scientific editorial against fusion power. The cited NASA source does not contain those numbers, nor does the paper characterizing a candle include that figure for power. All of the fusion occurs in the dense core yet the figures try to distribute the power across the entire mass, with a nod to "the plasma power density [in the core] is about 150 times bigger". Thanks again, Celestra (talk) 16:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Use of kilometres versus kilometers

The page is inconsistent. Kilometers is used five times. Kilometres is used once. Ckatz undid my change toward consistency and I'm changing it back to consistent. If someone wants to give me evidence that kilometres is the correct wiki standard, I'll change them all to kilometres but for now, I'm going with the majority standard inside THIS article. Friedlad (talk) 04:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR#Consistency within articles agrees that the article needs to be consistent in its use of national varieties of English. The guideline that seems right to use here is WP:RETAIN. Whichever variety of English the article originally used should be the standard with which we are consistent. I'll go check. Celestra (talk) 05:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The original (2002) did not have any words which are specific to a national variety. Until this edit last November, all of the national variations were American English (color instead of colour, kilometer instead of kilometre,...) It seems that Friedlad is correct to revert. Is there a option for the convert template to use the American spelling? Celestra (talk) 06:02, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Solar System Barycenter diagram

While reviewing this article, I noticed that the diagram "Motion of Barycenter of solar system relative to the Sun" was a relatively poor quality gif file, the source URL was to a PhotoBucket account that is now disabled, and it was for the years 1945-1996. Therefore I created two new diagrams and uploaded them to Wikimedia for you: 1) File:Solar System Barycenter 1944-1997.png is a complete recreation of the diagram in the article with the same years and path to verify validity of my algorithms, and 2) File:Solar System Barycenter 2000-2050.png which is a more "current" diagram for the years 2000-2050. Feel free to use one or both of these public domain png files if you want to replace the older diagram. Larry McNish, Calgary Centre of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Solar_System_Barycenter_2000-2050.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Solar_System_Barycenter_1944-1997.png 68.144.133.105 (talk) 12:51, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Theoretical Problems Section Title

The title, Theoretical problems, strikes me as very strange. They're more like inconsistencies; the theories are wrong, the sun is right. Any ideas for changing the title? Friedlad (talk) 13:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

age of the sun

article indicates the age of the sun is 3.8-2.5billion years old. Recent Data suggests it is closer to 4.6billion years which is consistent with other measurements on the earth,moon,and meteorites. See "Standard Solar Model" wiki which references "^ Sackmann, I.-Juliana; Boothroyd, Arnold I.; Kraemer, Kathleen E. (November 1993). "Our Sun. III. Present and Future". Astrophysical Journal 418: 457–468. doi:10.1086/173407."