Talk:Caliph

Comment

with regard to the pro-Khomeini spin - can someone who is versed in such things verify that it is accurate?

"The holder of this title claims rulership over all Muslims. The Caliph combines four roles that are often distinct in the Western world. These roles are: Spiritual leader of Muslims, the one who guides Muslims in new matters, Religious leader of Muslims, the one who enforces Sharia, Political leader of Muslims, the one who conducts relations with other states and administers the government, Military leader of Muslims, the one who orders and conducts military affairs, in particular those regarding the conflict between dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb. In the Catholic Church, the first two are combined in the office of the Pope. The last two are combined in military dictatorships. Islam may be unique in being the only system to combine all four."

Someone needs to read about the history of the Papacy. The Papacy was once very politically involved, and we have had at least one "warrior pope".

I disagree with this simplification and characterization of matters. In fact, all leaders combine all four roles listed above with varying emphasis. And in the west this was and still is worse. Take one example. The King/Queen of England was head of the Church of England, while Muslims have no church for the Caliph to rule over and historically the power was distinct after the first 4 caliphs. Second, the King of England enforced the laws of the state with all the power apparatus of a government, but the laws were mostly formulated by his will and decree. The Caliph also enforced the laws of the state, but the laws were not largely made by him but rather derived mostly by others from religious principles and texts acting as a modern constitution. Third, the King of England acted exactly as the Caliph in managing political issues within and foreign affairs without, as do all rulers. Fourth, all rulers are the ultimate commanders of the armed forces, be they of military background or not. This is true of all times. Even in modern day America, president Bush, or whoever, combines solidly the last 3 roles, and continuously gets involved with and shapes the first.A.Khalil 18:27, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

List/Table

Shouldn't we have a list that covers all Caliphs from Abubakar to Abdul Mejid II. Something like: we should list all of the calpins

Headline text

<List moved to main page>--iFaqeer 06:28, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)we should list

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Ottomans

the first Ottoman sultan to claim the title of caliph was Muhammed i Sani, also known as Mehmed II and Fatih. Selim was his grandson. It is true that his grand son selim defeated the other two caliphs of the time, the Safavid Shah and the Mameluke empire.

What is that?

(in 712 and 712)

redirected from Arabian Empire

But an empire is more than the leaders. ----

Change required in Section Succession to Muhammad (PBUH) [1]

Ibrahim, I reverted your edits on the caliph article. Here's why. You removed a note in a discussion of shura in pre-Islamic Arabia. The note said that members of the leading clan got extra consideration when it came time to choose leaders. That's supported by the work that Fred Donner has done, in his book The Early Arab Conquests. You weren't there, you don't know how it was, and a belief that it "shouldn't" be that way can't change the practices of people long dead. You removed the para on the Ibadi for the same reason, that you believe that all Sunnis share the Ibadi belief that lineage doesn't count. Really? Have you interviewed all the Sunni in the world?

WHEN there was a caliphate (as opposed to the later and incomplete Ottoman assumption of the role), when the choice of a caliph was a pressing issue, the Sunni DID agree that there was a noble clan, a leading clan, from which leaders should be chosen. That clan was the Quraysh. Only the Ibadis disagree with that. The Shi'a just took the lineage principle even further and said that it should not only be the Quraysh, it should be the descendents of Muhammad.

You may be one of the Muslims who believe that the caliphate should be revived. If so, your beliefs belong, as one POV (point of view), in the section on current attitudes towards the caliphate. They should not be allowed to thwart a look at what people of the past did or believed. Zora 18:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I was not there and nor was the Author of the book you are referring and not even you. So please give some comments that make some sense. I know Sunni believes because I am Sunni. I believe that true Caliph was first 4 (known as Rashidun), later on they deviate. Some people called Musharaf as Caliph, do you want add his selection method in the article? So I request that pleeeese when you write about Caliphs then please mention the method that was adopted to select first 4 Caliph, instead of the method that deviate. When I said all Sunni believe that Caliph can be any one (not from Muhammad lineage), then it means that all groups in Sunni. (It was so intelligent of you to think that I mean each Sunni person). According to Sunni believes.

1) Abu Bakar was selected by Bait/vote of Sahabas.

2) A Caliph could be anyone (NOT necessary from Muhammad lineage).

See the misguided wording of the article. "They further argue that a caliph is ideally chosen by election or community consensus, even though the caliphate soon became a hereditary office, or the prize of the strongest general". See all four Caliphs was selected by voting/Bait of Sahabas. Hence Why to use word ideally and what is meant from "Soon", 1 day, 2 Months, 5 years or 20 years?. One should say something like that After Rashidun the method deviate, however the right method considered by most Muslim scholar was by Bait. Why you want to keep misguiding people? Do you want any book reference for letting me change the article? Because the book you are referring could have made mistakes in it and I being a Sunni should know better than a Christian and Buddhist. I will provide you a book reference and after that I will change the article this section drastically. It should be written in a clear cut way instead of the misguided way. Caliphate is my dream and I will not allow anyone to play with it (and misguide others).--- Faisal 09:43, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Faisal, please read some history. You can start by reading the article on Saqifah. Abu Bakr was not elected by a vote of all the companions; he was acclaimed by Umar at an ad hoc, unannounced gathering that included only some of the companions. (Ali wasn't even told.) Abu Bakr argued that only a man from the Quraysh could lead the Muslims: "... the Arabs will not recognize the rule of anyone but this tribe of Quraysh. They are the most central of the Arabs in lineage and abode." (Madelung, 1997, p. 31) -- taken mostly from Ibn Ishaq. All the caliphs -- Rashidun, Umayyads, and Abbasids -- were Quraysh. This was universally conceded to be a requirement for the caliphate.

Nor was Umar elected caliph. He was appointed by Abu Bakr when the latter was on his deathbed. The only "regular" shura was the one that elected Uthman (see The election of Uthman). Umar arranged for the shura before his death, naming the six men he thought worthy to succeed him, and saying that they must agree among themselves on one of them. (Not very democratic, eh?) Ali's "election" was highly irregular -- he was elevated by a mob after Uthman had been murdered. Arab forces were scattered across the new empire at that point, and the wishes of most of the remaining companions were completely ignored.

If you wish to restore the caliphate, under the rules you propose, of course you have a right to your own opinion. But you don't have a right to rewrite history in order to make it resemble the ideal order for which you long. You might be more successful in arguing for your ideal order if you did more historical research, so that you couldn't be refuted by anyone who had studied at an Islamic or Western university.

If you belong to a group planning to restore the caliphate, you can go to the article about that group, and make sure that the article is accurate or if there is no article, start one. Zora 10:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I have a critical exam of German language on 28th May, hence after 28th (or may be before 28th depending upon free time availability) I will reply you in detail and correct this article with lots of references. I will delete all the words like soon , ideally etc. One should never write such words in research papers or any good article. As these words have very relative meanings. I do not belong to any group except the group of Ummah. Do not worry I do not intend to rewrite the history but want to write it correctly and do not want that any of my brother is misguided by reading the wikipedia. I know Abu Bakar was nominated (which is great) and I know the differences between yucky democracy and Chilphate but remember that Abu Bakar had vote of the majority, I never said that all had voted for him or taken part in the voting. I do not like democracy were 5 thieves select a biggest thief among themselves as their leader. Hence wait and I will be back with lots of corrections. --- Faisal 19:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

POV statement needs to be adjusted or referenced

tThe statement below needs to be referenced or adjusted to meet the requirements of balance, and objectivity.

"Many Islamic religious scholars and institutions have struggled to define the applicability of centuries-old doctrines within the context of a modern society, and Islamic scholarship is generally thought to have failed to keep pace with scientific, technological, and social progress. Many questions on the form a modern Islamic caliphate would take, such as whether the concept of the caliphate is compatible with the modern nation-state construct"

Split into 2 articles: Caliphate and Caliph

I suggest Caliph (the head of state) should have a seperate entry to Caliphate, which is the form of government. If nobody objects I will begin by copying all the parts of this article into a seperate article on the Caliphate, and switch off the divert to 'Caliph'. The article on 'Caliph' should focus on the individual, his responsibilities, conditions of appointments, past caliphs, etc etc

While the article on Caliphate should focus on the system, and it's various policies, and branches, and past Caliphate states. Aaliyah Stevens

Mughals?

Weren't the Mughal emperors of India also holders of the title of Caliph?

Concept of Kilafat or Islamic Government.

Islam has been misunderstood and mistreated as a religion – as one of the world religions. The world has demeaned it by treating it as such. IT IS NOT A RELIGION AT ALL. Religion divides and does not unite mankind. Islam unites and does not divide mankind. It is the World –State. It is the world government run by the Muttaqin who are all self-realized and self-exalted men receiving inspiration and guidance from their Sole Sovereign, Allah. They are inspired not to govern but to serve the people of the world according to the mandate of the Universal Sovereign Allah – The mandate of the Code of Procedure as revealed and preserved in the Eternal Qur-aan, as illustrated in the Uswa-i-Hasanah and as amplified in the services of the Constructional Caliphs. Islam acknowledges only the Sovereignty of Allah to equalize, liberalize and fraternize mankind under the clarion blast of ALLAH AKBAR – the Sovereign Allah alone is Great. All other claimants to sovereignty are pretenders and rebels against the Din or the Government of Allah – in other words, against Islam. The Eternal Qur-aan commands the Muttaqin or the Warriors of Allah to wage and carry on a non-stop war till the world becomes one World-State and humanity becomes one brotherhood – equal and free united under the banner of One Universal Sovereign Allah (Al Qur-aan 2:193). This is the Tawhid proclaimed by Islam (….).

To define exactly:

ISLAM IS THE GOVERNMENT OF ALLAH, BY THE MUTTAQIN, FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD. 

Muttaqin are servants of Allah to serve the people and not to rule them. They are those who follow the Uswa-i-Hasaanah of the Prophet (S.M.) and the service-examples of the Constitutional Caliphs of Islam.

Islam is a World-State, and not a world religion. The world has demeaned Islam by treating it as a religion. Religion is subordinate to the state. It has no army. It has priesthood, unarmed and stingless and can be challenged by the state authority. It abases itself before the royalty. But Islam is armed truth. It is armed to crush all satanic forces and to make the justice of Sovereign Allah, the truth about Allah and the beauty of the harmony that is Islam – prevail upon the earth. Unarmed Islam is no Islam at all. Because it cannot enforce the justice of Allah, it cannot enforce its constitutional laws as they are in the Qur-aan. A state-religion is inconceivable in Islam. It is not meant to play a second fiddle to the state.

Mission of Islam :

Rab’i ibn ’Aamr, the envoy of Islam to Rustam, the commander-in-chief of the army of Iran at the battle of Qaadisiyah, presented the mission of Islam to be as follows:

To emancipate mankind – 1. From the slavery of man to man , and make them equal by making them all slaves of Allah alone; 2. From the tyranny of religions, and make them all equally subject to the justice of Islam; 3. From the narrow territorial divisions of the earth, and keep it wide open 9for free movements of mankind throughout the world to make it one World-Kingdom of Allah). [Al Badayah Wan Nihaaya - by Ibn Athir]

Tawhid is the eternal message of Islam. The central concept of Tawhid is “Allah is One and He likes Unity”. Its formula is Laa Ilaaha Illa-Allah, there is no sovereign except Allah. Its corollaries are one, Umamah – one world fraternity of mankind and one world kingdom of Allah.

The modus operandi is the second part of the formula of Tawhid – Muhammad-ur Rasulul-llah – Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah – the guide to show mankind how to implement the formula of Unity – of Tawhid. Therefore, by following the ideal pattern of service and sacrifice alone of the Messenger of Allah, the World unity and world peace can be attained and ensured permanently.

In the world polity of Islam, there is no human sovereign. The clarion trumpet of the Eternal Qur-aan is ALLAHU AKBAR – Allah alone is Great and all men as servants of Allah, are equal, and free and they constitute on Ummah. In the nobility of the state of Islam, the highest and the noblest among them is the one who is most dedicated to Tawhid, that is, to Sovereign Allah and the unity and welfare of mankind in the world kingdom of Allah (Al Qur-aan 49:137).

Such is the fundamental basis of the World Order of Islam. On the human side, it postulates a fundamental worth in human nature and an inescapable moral responsibility for every individual who must give an account to His Sovereign Master, on the Day of Judgment. Moreover, it postulates that men who accept the divine prescription should live together in a community embodying a fundamental pattern of justice.

In the modern age, the state of Islam does not exist anywhere in the world. How can it, therefore, play its role to save humanity from its imminent peril?

The state of Islam was in existence and full operation – and it was a reality in the diamond age of the Messenger of Allah (S.M.) and the golden age of the Constitutional Caliphs of Islam. It is now a matter of history.

There must therefore be a return to the culture which the Eternal Qur-aan upholds and promotes – a culture which is a synthesis of the heart and the brain, of sweetness and light, of beauty and truth, of art and science and of love and progress. There must be a spiritual integration of culture if mankind is to survive. And this is what this world of Islam of the Eternal Qur-aan promises. This Eternal Book is a restatement of universal truths and values. It is a fountain of inspiration for heroic deeds and valorous performances. “The spirit behind the social laws of the Qur-aan is the only right one and can prove immensely useful in building the new world. It is the greatest force working for unity in the war-torn and hate-ridden world.” – (H. Kaur).

No conflict in the state of Islam between authority and freedom:

To the westerners, who have invented the nation states, the national sovereignties and the atom bomb, law is a system of commands sanctioned by the majority of the elected representatives in a sovereign national assembly. A human sovereign majority elected by the promiscuous, unthinking and volatile multitude is totally alien to Islamic jurisprudence. In the western legal system, therefore, the problem of reconciling the authority of man with the freedom of man still remains a riddle unresolved. But in the world-order of Islam, the Sole Sovereign is Allah. There being no human ruler, there is no conflict in the state of Islam between authority and freedom. All men are equally free and equally entitled to respectable means of living in the world kingdom of Allah. The ‘Shariah’ which is the Islamic term for law comprehends the whole duty of man and covers all aspects of life, - spiritual, moral, political, economic, social and private,- private and public hygiene,- even courtesy and good manners.

[Excerpts collated from the writings of Muhammad Khalillur Rahman, the author of ‘The Warriors of Allah’, ‘The Intelligent Man’s guide to Islam’, ‘Freedom in Islam and Communism’, and ‘Nizm-i-Faqr’ in Urdu. He has also translated the Holy Qur’an in English under the title “ The Clarion Call of the Eternal Qur-aan” (1991).]