Talk:List of oldest living people by country

New Zealand

Currently we don't have New Zealand listed. Here are a couple of cases:

Esther Moreland, 1 March 1902: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/1758103 Harold Clark, October 1902: http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/694393 SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Confirmation of Harold Clark reaching 107: http://theyworkforyou.co.nz/debates/2009/oct/21/nz_superannuation_retirement_income_2 SiameseTurtle (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Something I have been concerned about for some time! I have seen quite a few newspaper reports of women reaching 105-107 but almost never claimed to be the oldest in the country (excepting Florence Finch who I don't think became widely known until nearly 113). I suppose I should try theNew Zealand Association of Gerontology or Statistics New Zealand. If that doesn't help then I'll try some media outlets. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ 22:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Here another possible candidate: british-born woman Inez Newton, born November 6, 1901: http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/706635 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.61.55.109 (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Speak of the devil... Ruby Billings 27 April 1900: [1]. The newspaper couldn't confirm if she was the oldest though, but I think it's likely she is. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

That's almost embarrassing, I hadn't read that far into this morning's paper! Seems a good time to bring their attention to this article and this discussion! I've also been in touch with Statistics NZ (they are legally prevented from releasing ANY information about individuals) and NZ Assoc of Gerontology (apparently they will discuss my request for information at their monthly meeting at the end April). Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ 23:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had no more feedback. I wonder if we should go ahead and add Ruby Billings as I would think it very unlikely there is anyone older. Does GRG keep track of persons approaching 110? Do they even have any contacts in New Zealand (seeing there have only ever been two supercentenarians here as far as I know!)? DerbyCountyinNZ 23:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Too late. Ruby Billings died on 9 May. DerbyCountyinNZ 06:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Lena Ray, 19/20 January 1902 http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/1386033 http://localhistoryonline.shorelibraries.govt.nz/cgi-bin/PUI?a=d&library=nshore&cl=CL8&cls=Ray%2C%20Lena%20-%20Portraits&e=---------nshore--1-0-0 SiameseTurtle (talk) 01:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately due to privacy regulations it is extemely unlikely that there will ever be any official recognition of an "oldest person in New Zealand". NZ must be the only country in the "western" world that does not acclaim its oldest citizens! DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 06:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

One more 106 year old, Madge Dover 31/8/1903. She's apparently friends with Lena Ray who she has known since her teens. http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/2829961/Young-at-heart-at-106

Dudley Sainsbury 15 June 1903: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0910/S00002.htm SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:01, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Given the privacy laws currently operating in New Zealand I seriously doubt that there will EVER be a recognised "New Zealand's Oldest Person" unless they make it to supercentenarian status in which case there is a slim possibility that they may get verified and perhaps even publicly identified! DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 21:15, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There might never be an officially recognised oldest person, but here in the UK our journalists like to invent their own statistics to proclaim their own local citizens as the oldest. Inez Newton should be approaching 108 and Harold Clark should be nearly 107 - the papers might be a bit braver this time around. With Ruby Billings the paper said they knew of no-one older but asked readers to contact them if anyone knew of anyone older. SiameseTurtle (talk) 11:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

108th birthday for Marie/Lena Ray, born 19 Janaury 1902: http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/nz-s-oldest-women-celebrate-milestone-3334866 According to the article, Doris Mackintosh was born 18 January 1902 and might now be the oldest. Maybe we'll see some developments in the coming weeks. SiameseTurtle (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Hungary

107 year old Hungarian woman, Kövesdi Mátyásné, born 16 November 1901 (last update May 09): http://kecskemetitv.hu/hun/sa_tv/i_belfold_33/i_a_107_eves_kati_neni_elettitka_2783/t_A%20107%20%C3%A9ves%20Kati%20n%C3%A9ni%20%C3%A9lettitka/index.html http://www.hunyadivaros.hu/107evesneni/107evesneni.htm http://kecskenet.hu/hun/sa_hirek/i_helyi_hirek_8/i_mozgaskorlatozottak_a_csardaban_15543/t_Mozg%C3%A1skorl%C3%A1tozottak%20a%20cs%C3%A1rd%C3%A1ban/index.html
Another woman aged 107, Kudász Jánosné born 27 April 1902: http://www.helyitema.hu/images/katsel/dist/17.html
Possibly the oldest man, Pelles József born 1 June 1903: http://www.boon.hu/lakohelyem/encs/cikk/b-a-z-megye-legidosebb-embere/cn/news-20090701-12151680 SiameseTurtle (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
A Hungarian woman, Tóth Györgynét (Anna/Annushka) born 22 December 1901 (last update Dec 09): http://www.beol.hu/bekes/kultura/szazhet-eves-megyenk-legidosebb-lakoja-199571 http://www.bekesmegye.com/index.php?action=fullnews&id=446986&category=2941&category_name=kondoros_hirek http://www.beol.hu/cikk/277662 SiameseTurtle (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Unverified coloration needed

Greetings,

As with some other pages, people insist on putting Unverified claims (not internationally recognized) on this page. If one wants to do so, at least use the background coloration scheme to indicate that the case status.Ryoung122 12:54, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to re-name

Greetings,

Some/many of the claims on this page are UNverified and therefore do not qualify as "national recordholders." Also, it seems silly to call a living person a "living recordholder." I propose re-naming this page to "Oldest Living Woman and Man by Nation."Ryoung122 13:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

New idea

This page should be deleted and be combined with National longevity recordholders. To see the discussion see User talk:NickOrnstein#Living National Longevity Recordholders. Thanks! --Nick Ornstein (talk) 15:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Criteria for the list

Nobody should be included unless there is a citation specifically claiming they are the oldest person/woman/man to be born or living in that country. The inclusion of anyone without such a citation, on the basis that they are the oldest person a user has managed to find for that country, is OR. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 19:41, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

What is the minimum age for an unverified person to stay on the list? 115? This page is rediculous. I want this page DELETED! SEE User talk:NickOrnstein#Living National Longevity Recordholders!!! Please tell me what your opinions are on this guys!!!--Nick Ornstein (talk) 23:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it is complicated enough as it is. For example, Rosa Rein isn't the oldest Swiss-born person ever. There's also room for mis-interpretation: for example, what happens if the oldest living person is known, but the recordholder is not? Then it could be interpreted as the living person being the oldest ever, which might be WP:OR. I think it's better to keep these lists separate. As for unverified people, it wouldn't be right if we removed people as soon as they turned 110. Secondly, no organisation that validates supercentenarians has the resources to span every country. I think anyone who is said to be the oldest person in their country should be added, unless they are older than the world's oldest woman (for a woman), or the world's oldest man (for a man). I say this because Guinness Records attempts to validate claims to the oldest man/person in the world (Maria Capovilla is a good example). SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Lucas Melón Ayala

Hi, probably you're missing him: Anciano que cumplirá 118 años necesita ayuda para afrontar problemas de salud. From RPP News.

Here is another link Padre de 117 años pasará su día solo From OJO Newspaper.

He borned in 1892.

And you can find a more results in google.

--†_JuanPa_† (talk) 10:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Technically, as there are no established criteria for including anyone on this page (other than the implication that they are claimded to be the oldest person in their country) he could be included. BUT...as his claimed age is older than any verified person it is unlikely his inclusion would be allowed to stay. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 11:28, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I think there SHOULD be criteria for inclusion. A claim like this should be sent to Longevity claims.Ryoung122 15:47, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

NEW 2nd oldest living American male

John Babcock became the second oldest living validated male from the U.S. after the passing of Herb Adair. Babcock has been valdiated by the GRG. If you go to http://www.grg.org/>Centenarians>John Babcock, 109. You don't see any other American male listed behind Walter Breuning. Am I right on this? --Nick Ornstein (talk) 14:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

No, because a) John Babcock is not validated because the GRG does not validate those under 110 and b) unless there's a source that explicitly states/lists him as #2, it's original research, unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. Cheers, CP 20:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

ITS NOT JOHN BABCOCK, JOHN BABCOCK IS A CANADIAN, NOT AN AMERICAN, ITS PROBABLY FRANK BUCKLES. 72.155.225.239 (talk) 00:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Since when is the second-place person a matter of concern for the "first-place" lists? And John Babcock is both an American and Canadian...he has probably lived in America longer than 95% of Americans (most people were not born yet when he came to America).Ryoung122 02:50, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

John Babcock was born in Canada, that makes him Canadian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.155.225.181 (talk) 22:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

the second oldest American man is 109 year old Albert Plummer 74.226.167.161 (talk) 20:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

It would be very interesting to know more about Mr Plummer. When he was born and where he lives... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.117.122.221 (talk) 12:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Albert Plummer - 27 March 1900, 109 74.249.136.134 (talk) 22:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

All of which is pointless until there is a claim that he is the oldest man in the United States. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 22:19, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

What about when the oldest dies, we should know who the new oldest would be, just to be prepared for when the oldest dies. Longevitydude (talk) 14:40, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the chances of there not being an immediate news report of the new oldest man in the US are extremely low, a user automatically putting Albert Plummer or anyone else without such a report would be OR. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 22:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Austria

109 year old Hermine Nistler is the oldest woman. 65.0.16.122 (talk) 13:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This is true, but Theresia Staffler, born 11/15/1898 should also be mentioned. She was born in the south of the Tyrol, which is now a part of Italy (since 1919). 1898 there was only one Tyrol. The division of the Tyrol was not voluntary and Ms Staffler surely never felt in her whole life to be an Italian citizen. Her mother-tongue is German and this is the official language of Austria too! Venere Pizzinato was also born in the South of Tyrol, but her mother-tongue is Italian. In the category of Italy it should be mentioned: Venere Pizzinato, born 11/23/1896 (born in Austria!). Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.117.122.221 (talk) 11:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Staffler passed away in January 2010. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

2nd oldest living American male

Possible candidates are:
-Albert Plummer (b. 27 March 1900)
-Emanual Mendoz (b. 26 September 1900)
-Frank Buckles (b. 1 February 1901)

--Nick Ornstein (talk) 02:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

ronnie fairbanks died in 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.249.139.246 (talk) 12:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Nick, can you stop updating this, it's unnecessary and doesn't this article. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 22:58, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

No. Its a reminder for me. --Nick Ornstein (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

In which case you should use your own page, not here. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 22:37, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposal

As there are no standards for inclusion in this article (apart from a reliable citation) and some persons claimed to be over the age of 110 are noted as "not internationally verified", I suggest that instead those persons who have been internationally verified (by GRG or Guinness) be highlighted and it be noted that all others are unverified (unless there are organisations which can be accepted as reliable for non-supercentenarians). Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 21:23, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Problems with verifiability on this page

It appears there needs to be a distinction between persons in this article that have an independently verified age and unverified claims.

1. For persons aged 110+ inclusion on either the GRG or Epstein lists would seem to be sufficient for them to be listed here as the oldest person in a particular country (claims for persons older than the oldest verified person should, probably, be ignored). The alternative would be to list them as footnotes which has the potential to become extremely messy
2. Unverified claims for persons 110+ in countries with no verified supercentenarian need to be distinguished as unverified BUT are there some which should not even be listed? It seems obvious that no claim older than the oldest currently verified person should be included (there is a slim chance, as with Maria Copillova, that verification may eventually be established but for the integrity of the article it is probably better to err on the side of caution).
3. Unverified persons under 110 are not independently verified so how should they be treated? Some claims are clearly more likely (to be true or verifiable) than others, should a distinction be made, and on what basis?

Many unverified persons listed here seem to be more a case of "this is the oldest person I/we can find a citation for in this country" than "this person is (not might be but IS) claimed, by a reliable source, to be the oldest person in this country". The former is OR and should not be used here.

My suggestion would be to highlight the different levels of verifiabilty. Green for verified supercentenarians, red for unverified claims above 110. All others left uncoloured. Some claims should probably be removed (eg India) and those that don't meet the criteria in the preceding paragraph. I would like to see countries that have never had a verified supercentenarian highlighted in orange, but I suspect that wouldn't get consensus. so it's probably not worth discussing. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 03:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

the oldest czech man died

http://aktualne.centrum.cz/domaci/spolecnost/clanek.phtml?id=663070 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.139.25 (talk) 08:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I know that it would be better if I had created a new topic, but I don't know how to do this. I deleted Patricia Gonzalez as the oldest person in Paraguay because she died unfortunately at the 27.7.2009 according to this article: http://www.puertademergencia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=571:fallecio-la-mujer-mas-longeva-de-paraguay&catid=46:entrevistas