Jump to content

Talk:Metamaterial cloaking

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 66.57.254.204 (talk) at 05:55, 19 March 2010 (→‎Change name to Transformation optics). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Cleaning up

Okay, it is a good start to have this material moved to a separate page. However I think invisibility science is not a good choice of name, as it is overly broad. I assume that this page should focus on metamaterial-based and plasmonic cloaking (which have also been implemented with metamaterials at microwaves). Therefore I would suggest "Metamaterial Cloak", "Material Cloaking" or something similar. ShiftyDave (talk) 00:19, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, these are both appropriate and good names. As you said, and I have discovered, metamaterial is not exactly defined, so plasmonic cloaking could fit with Metamaterial in the title. Material cloaking is also a good name because it also expresses the process. At the moment, I prefer Metamaterial cloaking, because it will relate to the other articles by name. However, I'll go with whatever you prefer, ShiftyDave. Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 03:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Metamaterial cloaking (if the article aims at processes and technologies) or Metamaterial cloak (for specific realizations) sound more appropriate than the present title, to my ear. Dave, WP style recommendations are to capitalize only proper names, trade marks or alike (there are few more exceptions), thus cloaking instead of Cloaking. Materialscientist (talk) 03:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Transformation optics

Since this article has been a stub since Feb. 2008, I merged the content from Transformation optics. That article in its current state is better served at "Invisibility science" where it can be developed as part of another article which includes this topic. Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 04:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Page move

I went ahead and renamed "Invisibility science" to "Metamaterial cloaking". Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 23:02, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Change name to Transformation optics

I reccomend changing the title of this article to Transformation optics, since there are other sections (and research) which utilize transformation optics besides cloaking. This would probably be a more accurate title (or something similar). Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 06:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought this article still needs to be developed, and there are other forms of cloaking. It may be better to simply spin off the other sections on metamaterial celestial mechanics later (including black holes etc.). It may be best to just wait and see, for now. Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 19:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised transformation optics isn't a separate article. TO-based cloaking is a subset of invisibility cloaking, but it is also a subset of TO-based devices. I have to imagine it's better to have a separate article including info about developments like beam benders, concentrators, super absorbers, and the like, with a link to the TO section of the cloaking article, than a half-sentence mention of all the other applications. 19:40 15 March 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.196.93 (talk) 19:41, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your interest in this article. If you notice the banner on the top, the article is still under construction (being worked on). The other cloaking sections will be expanded, for sure. I see where Transformation optics has devices that are worth considering in another article. However, transformation optics plays a big role in this article. Hopefully, for now I have covered the intent to cover these areas in the introduction. Also, I think it is worth discussing the articles that are also included in TO but not explicity mentioned until the cloaking demonstration in 2006. These are "Controlling EM fields" and "Optical conformal mapping." I am working on these for some background to the actual cloaking in 2006, and then I go from there. There will probably a seperate article for TO, I am just not sure how, yet. Thanks. Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 06:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(same unsigned user as before) I did note the construction tag, yes. I don't think a separate TO article would be very complicated. The meat could include:
  • theory of coordinate transformations, including an example or two - constructing the Jacobian matrix from a general coordinate transformation
  • theory underlying the invariant form of Maxwell's equations (how a spatial coordinate transform is equivalent to a material parameter transform) and how this can be used to engineer devices. That is, show that material parameters can be related to the Jacobian using form invariance
  • specific example application of some sort, many of which are available
  • list of examples of typical applications
The sections I propose could be written entirely without mentioning cloaking - examples could use subwavelength confinement, beam benders, or beam concentrators. I understand TO is important for metamaterial cloaking, but again - metamaterial cloaking using TO is a subset of TO applications, not vice versa. It doesn't make sense to me to have it structured this way - TO is a broader concept. There should be a brief description in a TO article about cloaking with a link to this one, and a link from this one to a more detailed and general TO article. Someone coming to this article is probably looking to see what's possible with current technology, and that's fine. If they want more detail about this transformation optics approach, especially noting that it's applicable to other devices/applications, they currently have nowhere to go. I'm not trying to be a pain, but as someone who actually deals with TO, the fact that there's no separate TO article seems silly to me. It's like having an MTI radar article but no general radar article, or a specific application of materials science without a general article on the same.

Organization needed

The lead section of this article does not accurately convey the current content. It implies that, at the very least, the following topics will be described and discussed:

  • Anomalous localized resonance
  • Diploar scattering
  • Tunneling light transmittance
  • Sensors and active sources
  • Transformation optics

Just skimming over this article, this doesn't appear to be the case. In fact, transformation optics seems to pervade more of the article than its heading suggests, while none of the other terms are defined or even used in an easily recognized form in the remainder of the article. And, of course, there's the ever-present problem of jargon-dense information without any more readily accessible introductions to each subtopic.

It seems to me that the chief problem of this article is that it has no organization; i.e., a well-defined subject that can be broken down into subtopics and arranged in a logical flow. I only ever got as far as an physics minor in college (not optics!), and my head spins trying to assess the content as it is. But I suspect that it might be assembled into something like this:

  • [Lead section] – mostly done, although (A) metamaterial is not defined (anywhere in the article, in fact; a link is not enough), and (B) the last sentence is jarringly specific and should be moved elsewhere
  • Science of cloaking – what it means to "cloak" something, or render it invisible; why it's a challenge (it could even be called "Quest for invisibility" if you want to get dramatic)
  • Theoretical approaches – introduce subject, with at least a few sentences on why metamaterial is part of this article's title (i.e., why they're part of these cloaking approaches), then provide sections in the order described in the lead section
    • Anomalous localized resonance
    • Diploar scattering
    • Tunneling light transmittance
    • Sensors and active sources
    • Transformation optics
    • Broadband ground-plane cloak (?)
  • Proposed applications
  • Institutional research
  • See also, etc.

Assuming this is a reasonable organization of the content, all the remaining material should go under one of these headings. (Even if transformation optics winds up being a huge subsection, the other approaches should have at least summary paragraphs as placeholders. The structure will show potential editors what's needed.) If they don't fit, then my suggestion isn't adequate, but some logical order and flow needs to be imposed. Also, the current "In the news" section doesn't belong here at all. If there is meaningful information to contribute from these media sightings, it should be incorporated into the text of the article with appropriate citations.

I realize that this article has gone through a few major transformations, which no doubt contributed to the problems. I hope my suggestions are of some use in fixing them. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff, thank you for your interest in this article, and your willingness to suggest a structure for organization. Yes, your suggestions are a very reasonable regarding organization of the content. In fact, from your suggestions I have gained insight into the need for the following:
  • further defining a metamaterial,
  • what it means to "cloak" something,
  • why cloaking is a challenge,
  • make the "jargon' more understandable,
  • and try to specify why metamaterial is in the title of the article.
These are very good points, I will work on them one by one. Also, intergrating current news into the content, or sections of the article, sounds like a good idea as well.
You are correct in "saying" that most of the stuff in the second sentence, of the second paragraph, of the introduction - is not in the article. You are also correct that "Transformation optics" heavily dominates this article, at this time. You are noticing this because this article is currently in a state of flux, and is currently being rewritten from top to bottom (or bottom to top). When I first wrote this article it started with the metamaterial cloak (of Transformation optics) that you see here now. I am trying to finish this first.
The topics mentioned in the second sentence are subjects that I have just recently come across with the intention of adding them to the article once cloaking related to "transformation optics" is done, or at least written for editing later. You could say it is a matter of awareness. The more research I do, the more material I come across - if that makes sense.
The last sentence of the introduction is also a pointer or a guide to help me focus the content of this article. It is really nothing more than that. I will probably move this when I am done with this cloaking section. The cloaking section related to "Transformation optics" is comprised of at least three core journal articles: "Controlling Electromagnetic Fields", "Optical conformal mapping", and "Electromagnetic cloaking at microwave frequencies". The last two sections still need to be re-written. Then I will see what more recent research has been accomplished in this area.
Hopefully, my explanation here has been helpful to you. Feel free to add further comments as the article progresses. Ciao.
Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 05:05, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]