Talk:Adrian Lamo

Legal woes

It would be nice to know if he is incarcerated or was he released on OR? Since he is sentenced in June 2004, I guess this will be moot soon. -- manchineel

Apart from time spent in custody for processing, he was not incarcerated. He was released on $250,000 bond, and has since been sentenced to house arrest and probation. Hope this helps :) --Adrian 16:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Confusion

Lamo's thoughts are largely unpublished but have been shared with a small group of researchers in related areas. Privately held works attribute both his easy entry into highly secured networks and his involvement in other, less public phenomena to an amalgamation of separate, unique events and situations at points and times reachable only by an abandonment of any effort to identify patterns related to them.

Ok... who added this? and... more importantly... what does it mean? I believe this should be wikified.

• Lamo's Thoughts -> Lamo's Techniques
• Privately held works -> Privately held manuscripts
• etc...

That's assuming my understanding is correct

Manuscripts? Where'd that come from? I don't remember writing any manuscripts on this =x

Adrian Lamo 10:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

A.C. Edit

• Added info regarding his techniques, added attribution link to wired
• Removed part of a ridiculously long and incomprihensible sentence: ...to an collection of separate, unique events and situations at points and times reachable only by an abandonment of any effort to identify patterns related to them.
• Removed ;'s on links (not std Wikipedia)
• Request: Someone crop, rotate the image as requested. (see talk page on image)
• Request: Someone please edit the language. It still contains philosophical/eccentric wording. (Tip: Don't Drink and Edit =)

If I drink and edit, post something on the net, then have it be referenced on Wikipedia, does it become canon enough to keep 'cos I said it and it's verifiable? :)

To be fair, I can't really complain about the choice of language. A lot of what I've said publically is pretty opaque. It's *meant* to be. Clarity is not a goal that should be achieved at the expense of accuracy. I am not network news; I'm not broadcasting to the lowest common denominator. I did what I did, now I do what I do.

Which isn't to say I don't deeply appreciate each and every constructive edit made to this article. Thank you, for helping to make this little corner of Wikipedia more readable :)

Adrian Lamo 16:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Birthday

• Request: This might be a minor detail but most biographies in wikipedia provide us with the exact date of birth of the subject. I would like to know the birthday :D Viruswitch 11:46, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

For obvious privacy reasons and the identity fraud proliferation, I suggest to leave the issue alone. --Irpen 01:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not think that is relevant at all if the date is already published online, unless you can point out a specific threat that would be made manifest by the addition of this information (more so than for those other living people whose birthdays appear on Wikipedia)... has Mr Lamo's arch-nemesis sworn to steal his identity if he could just discover his date of birth? If it isn't already available online, well, that is a different matter. NicM 08:52, 6 February 2006 (UTC).

I don't know whether it is available online and the reason why I don't know is that I didn't care to check because I am not interested in the exact DOB of A. L. Anyone is welcome to dig out the date, if it is already available, and post it here, citing a source. It is a different matter to pressure a subject of the article to reveal the date himself. It is his business whether he wants to answer a personal question. --Irpen 19:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm all about helping Wikipedia in random ways, but I like my birthday nebulous, and it's not available online anywhere, to the very best of my knowledge. So even if I confirmed it, I couldn't cite sources :)

User:Adrian/zap 01:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

- It was just a question, in fact I wanted to know what Adrian's Zodiac Sign is. He replied in my userpage that he doesnt want to publish that and the matter is settled. Maybe I should have just deleted the question when I got a reply (I still can :D hehe). Making a big fuss out of nothing :P. Viruswitch 10:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The fuss wasn't entirely in re. your question, Viruswitch :) There was a brief spree of vandalism to the main article involving my birthday. (It's not February 30th ;x)

I'll e-mail you my sign, though :) User:Adrian/zap 23:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

- Whoops, I was not aware of that! Thanks for the email :). I am very very happy to know! :) Viruswitch 08:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC) Just doing a google and on the first page I found a month (not a date though). Just noting :\ — Ilyanep (Talk) 03:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- I had found that too but was not sure whether the site was worthy of reliance.Viruswitch 13:05, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

You might call me a paranoiac, but I'm not the only one ...  :) User:Adrian/zap 00:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

As for "it's not available online anywhere", I couldn't help but notice that on your myspace profile an acquaintance left a message saying "have a wonderful birthday today" on February 20th. ;-) --SedatedRX 08:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Pfft. Since when have we used Myspace as a reference? --maru (talk) contribs 14:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

It may not be The New York Times (no pun intended) but I'd presume this person knows A.L. reasonably well.--SedatedRX 19:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

MySpace is not generally accepted as a credible source, and only friends of mine quoted in the media are citable in re. Adrian Lamo. The office of Adrian Lamo thanks you for your interest in Adrian Lamo :P

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 09:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

This article (which is already a source on the main page) says that his birthday is a "few days before April 16." Bender2k14 (talk) 04:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Conversely, how do we know that he was born in 1981? That's an unreferenced fact. thatha (talk) 04:15, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. All very dodgy on Mr. Lamo's part - if that *is* his *real* name 0_o

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 04:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Adrian, why do you want to keep your birthday "nebulous" but have no problem revealing your social security number (in Hackers Wanted)? Bender2k14 (talk) 17:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Damage?

I am confused about the "damage" Adrian supposedly caused by breaking into these networks. What was it? (Not to be POV, but this is the discussion page, and from what I have read, he seems well intentioned and to have done a lot of good.) Armedblowfish 05:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the searches that he did in the NYTimes cost them money. Bender2k14 (talk) 17:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

That sounds a little unlikely to me, and likely to be the same species of specious reasoning that folks like the RIAA use to estimate damages from piracy; institutional subscriptions to proprietary databases like LexisNexis are usually flat-rates based on the number of people given access / simultaneous connections. Lamo's intrusion wouldn't change the prices paid. --Gwern (contribs) 18:20 14 June 2010 (GMT)

This article and this article (both of which are in the "References" section in the main article) talk about how LexisNexis is pay-per-use and what Lamo cost the NYTimes by using it. Like the RIAA, their initial damage claim was grossly exaggerated. Bender2k14 (talk) 17:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Those don't show the damage conclusively. The first article is only about the plea deal, which as you point out, bears little connection to reality. The second article vaguely describes Lexis-Nexis as 'the pay-per-use search tool' (as opposed to what, the pay-to-not-use?), but backtracks later by mentioning that the NYT does not 'pay retail' and pointing out that Lamo could have bought an unlimited use account for just $1500. If unlimited is that cheap, and the NYT does not pay retail... --Gwern (contribs) 18:06 16 June 2010 (GMT)

Making "DNA controversy" longer

NicM, since you thought the stuff about the history of the federal government required DNA sampling and the ACLU's opposition to it was irrelevant, I was wondering if you had any suggestions for making that more than a 1-paragraph section? Armedblowfish 00:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Not really, no. We'll have to see how events pan out. A neutral summary of the issue and its relevence to the case may be appropriate (are the ACLU even involved aside from making a couple of comments?) although I think such a summary would be much better in Combined DNA Index System or ACLU or elsewhere. It would be nice to know what Adrian Lamo's religious objections are but it seems to be somewhat vague. I'd like to see a quote from the other side too, we have one from his lawyer, one from the govt would be nice too. NicM 09:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC).

Wikinews

So I'm writing an article to be released for the May 30 hearing. See here. So far, it's just a story preparation that is basically just from here / Wired, but I intend to interview Adrian. Anyways, as I'm not used to this, help/advice would be appreciated. Also, I don't know how to go about getting an interview/quotes from the other side, but if anyone else could, that would be great (for the sake of NPOV). Armedblowfish 00:24, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Categories

I think we need to check the categories: Lamo's from California and Massachusetts? Isn't it just Massachusetts? --maru (talk) contribs 03:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The dual categorization is accurate. — User:Adrian/zap2.js 02:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

For what reason? The dual categorisation is confusing, so unless you have a good reason we can explain in the article I think we should eliminate one of them. NicM 22:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC).

If you're concerned about categories, you may want to look into "Living People" -- I was in a car accident (as a passenger) in early May of '06, and the first EMT that checked me after I crawled (upwards, out of a nose-down smoking vehicle) couldn't find a pulse :P

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 02:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I just don't understand how you can be from both places at once- the location where one was born is a rather binary proposition. Unless parts of you were borne to two different women (one in Massachusetts and t'other in California), and then in a mockery of God's creation, stitched together into a monstrous chimera to trouble the Earth, it would seem nigh impossible. --maru (talk) contribs 03:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "from" necessarily means "born in". If you spend a large amount of your life in any given place, you may eventually consider yourself "from" that place. Armedblowfish 21:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Generally one is only "from" one place. Not always the place you were born, sometimes the place you spent most of your life, live currently, grew up: different people have different definitions, but it is still only once place. NicM 22:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC).

If one is raised in a place, or lives in a place, or is a Hoosier etc. that's fine, but one is not from that place- where one is from is generally understood in these categories as birthplaces. Perhaps we can scrap the California one, since he was born in Massachusetts as I recall. --maru (talk) contribs 23:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Last name confusion?

This guy's last name really can't be Lamo, can it? Imagine the everyday confusing insults the guy recieves, like "Hey, Lamo!" or "Lamewad, get over here". I dunno, my mind registers this as unpossible, however Wikipedia tells me this is true. However, my condolescences and sympathy goes out to the friends and family of Lamo for this sincere and confusing tragedy.--Mofomojo 12:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Now now. Perhaps everyone simply tactfully pronounces it "Lamb-o" instead of "Lame-o"? --maru (talk) contribs 02:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's just pronounced Lamo, like lmao ... anyway, anytime I think of his last name, I picture him laughing his ass off. --Cyde↔Weys 02:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It's pronounced with an "ah" sound. But it could easily be made fun of. The Ungovernable Force 04:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Middle name?

What is Adrian's middle name? I know it starts with A.

The "A" doesn't stand for anything. It's just an A.

( a lie, but a plausible lie ... )

—User:Adrian/zap2.js 2007-02-05 07:26Z

Adrian At at Wikipedia

Who wrote this stuff? Seems like plain self-promotion to me.

If you want to know, go look at the article history. It is laid out in exhaustive detail there. -- Gwern (contribs) 05:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia wrote it and "anyone" can edit.

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.78.121 (talk) 19:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC) 

And if someone doesn't like to edit self-promotional material???

Then they can go elsewhere, and edit some other material. Volunteer service here. Fork or leave, as the saying goes. --Gwern (contribs) 22:31 17 November 2006 (GMT)

Personal Homepage

The link to the personal homepage "Just Breath" is functioning but the site seems to have disappeared. :/ I wanted to read that lovecraft story again... What happened?

http://resist.ca/~adrian/

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 23:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Salon.com as a source for this article

This article uses salon.com as a reference. A concern has been raised about the reliability of salon.com. You can read the following discussion and comment if you like. SeeTalk:Salon.com/as_a_source_for_WikipediaAndries 04:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

AALib pic

I see no point in including this image.

It's a cute, Free image that dovetails with his computer links. I see no point in not including this image. --Gwern (contribs) 23:39 21 June 2007 (GMT)

Ok, can I add a picture of a cute bunny as well? The "leet" image of Lamo is an absurd, pathetic attempt at Wikipedia stylishness. The point in excluding the image is to minimize the article content to that which informs, and avoid useless fluff. This is an encyclopedia, not "fun happy information website." Maybe once you Wikipedians learn to author a reference work as a reference work you'll understand this. Otherwise we'll continue to see articles with superfluous opinions and lame hipster bullshit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.183.178.23 (talk • contribs).

Heh. NicM 01:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC).

Go add it to the bunny page. Bunny has no pictures, which is too bad.

As for the rest of your rant... Tell you what, call me when people actually start using 'real' encyclopedias which don't have 'superfluous opinions and lame hipster bullshit'. In the meantime, you and the other 10 people who read Encyclopedia Britannica can revel in its lack of any pictures in its Adrian Lamo article. What's that, you say? It doesn't have one? And it covers almost nothing relevant these days. Oh. Huh. --Gwern (contribs) 20:49 30 January 2008 (GMT)

Dating

The dating on this article seems to be bundled dates, so I changed all the dates back to american formating. Warrush

So long as date prefs are wikilinked, it doesn't matter whether they are 1 July or July 1. NicM 01:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC).

Img size

Image:Duty.gif is pathetically small, anyone able to find a larger version? NicM 01:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

No larger version is available (or likely to be forthcoming) without scanning an extant copy of the magazine (I don't have one) or asking SF Weekly directly (I'd rather not do this myself).

I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

—User:Adrian/zap2.js 2007-09-20 02:33Z

"Infamous"?

The first sentence of the article describes Lamo as an "infamous" former grey-hat hacker, etc. I'm a little surprised that this wording has persisted so long. Not only is it more judgmental than I'd expect from an encyclopedia (it's not a very neutral term, after all), but it could even be considered libelous when applied to the biography of a living person, as in this case. But I'm hesitant to remove it since it has persisted so long; I couldn't look through more than a fraction of the history, but there may be cases in the past where it's been removed and re-added, so I thought I'd better ask first. -- CWesling (talk) 04:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it's at least somewhat fair - for all the positive coverage, there was still plenty of condemnatory commentary. And remember, Lamo edits Wikipedia and has previously commented on this article; so far as I know, he's never objected to it. --Gwern (contribs) 05:07 6 December 2007 (GMT)

I don't think many readers see this and interpret in the canonical sense. In modern parlance, it's simply a way of saying "someone well-known whom we might call famous, except we don't want our kids to grow up like him."

That said, my failure to remove or alter something that might be prejudicial or otherwise negative doesn't imply my endorsement of it. I do ensure that none of my edits to this article involve discretionary POV issues.

If a better word comes along, grand. But I agree with Gwern that the wide variety of opinions out there make using any less opaque word improbable for now.

—User:Adrian/zap2.js 2008-02-15 19:56Z

I disagree that it's opaque. To me, it reads that Lamo is some sort of a high-profile hacker, but actually he's little more than a small-time attention seeker who managed to get a lot of coverage through a single outlet. --94.171.77.82 (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Sexuality/Married?

NNDB says Adrian has gotten married as of last year, can anyone (Adrian?) verify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zythe (talk • contribs) 2008-04-22T08:04:59

There is an entry currently mentioned under Miscellaneous which mentions Adrian Lamo was appointed to a LGBT group and this page is categorized under LGBT studies. This doesn't include much context making it difficult to rephrase and put elsewhere such as into the section marked "Personal Life". Perhaps Adrian's sexuality is worth mentioning in this context or perhaps it is part of a strong belief in LGBT civil rights or reaching out to alienated young people, but as it stands the point seems unexplained. Can anyone provide more context, or should it be removed? -- Horkana (talk) 16:43, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, he did have a "This user identifies as bisexual" on his Wikipedia userpage at one point but removed it January 4, 2007. His blog says he married Lauren in September 2007. I wouldn't guess there are many men named Lauren although I have seen a couple. - ✰ALLST☆R✰ ^echo 21:21, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

This has been brought up before, and is addressed here. Blogs of notable individuals are (last I checked) valid sources within their respective bailwicks, so this seems like the easiest way to settle the question. Thanks for your interest in improving Wikipedia.

— User:Adrian/zap2.js 01:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Religious Affiliation (if any)?

The article references religious beliefs. If his affiliation or the belief system he follows is known, it may be an interesting addition. 66.191.19.217 (talk) 02:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikileaks

A june 2010 wired report about Adrien Lamo & wikileaks : http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/leak/ (but I can't tell wether it is an intersting event or not) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.198.134.28 (talk) 13:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Definitely significant. Added to the article as a single sentence, thought it could probably have its own section. NW (Talk) 15:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It should! Probably presages the death of Wikileaks if people are not going to respect the anonymity of its contributors.Jatrius (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It looks like the Wikipedia article has already written itself, this guy is toast. Before you lynch him, and his reputation, realize the first, and only report, states, "he boasted to a former computer hacker of leaking hundreds of thousands of classified documents".

The article subject's motivation is unknown at this time. Having specific knowledge of someone "leaking hundreds of thousands of classified documents" (and the real world Life & Death ramifications) may make this more complex than the headlines make it appear in this initial report. ::Perhaps we should allow our Reliable Sources to do the reporting, our role is different...99.141.254.167 (talk) 01:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikileaks statement: http://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/15624063923 --93.221.229.189 (talk) 07:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Actual report says, "When Manning told Lamo that he leaked a quarter-million classified embassy cables, Lamo contacted the Army...

“I wouldn’t have done this if lives weren’t in danger,” says Lamo, who discussed the details with Wired.com following Manning’s arrest. “He was in a war zone and basically trying to vacuum up as much classified information as he could, and just throwing it up into the air.”

"Lamo has contributed funds to Wikileaks in the past, and says he agonized over the decision to expose Manning — he says he’s frequently contacted by hackers who want to talk about their adventures, and he has never considered reporting anyone before. The supposed diplomatic cable leak, however, made him believe Manning’s actions were genuinely dangerous to U.S. national security."

We should not be writing this as if it revolved around the one Baghdad airstrike. It gives undue weight to a peripheral element, albeit tabloid focus, of a much larger event. Remember that it's an encyclopedia.99.141.254.167 (talk) 12:12, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Add this regarding what RS report was the investigation focus:

"The Bureau was particularly interested in information that Manning gave Lamo about an apparently-sensitive military cybersecurity matter, Lamo said.

That seemed to be the least interesting information to Manning, however. What seemed to excite him most in his chats was his supposed leaking of the embassy cables. He anticipated returning to the states after his early discharge, and watching from the sidelines as his action bared the secret history of U.S. diplomacy around the world.

“Everywhere there’s a U.S. post, there’s a diplomatic scandal that will be revealed,” Manning wrote. “It’s open diplomacy. World-wide anarchy in CSV format. It’s Climategate with a global scope, and breathtaking depth. It’s beautiful, and horrifying.”" .99.141.254.167 (talk) 12:24, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

In regards to the German media link, necessary? Seems out of place in the English wiki. Not trying to be Western-centric, but perhaps it should be replaced to redirect to at least a translation of the page. 68.33.1.184 (talk) 23:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

As I have understood it, Adrian was recently released from jail and was still under supervision when he got in contact with Manning, who told Lamo about the leaks over an unencrypted chat. Would Lamo not have told the police, and they found out about the chat log, or if Manning would have gotten caught on his own and the police found out he had been in contact with Lamo, he would probably go back to jail for hiding evidence of criminal activity. The WBAI radio show Off the Hook summed it up "Just never brag about leaking this kind of information to anybody". So far I don't think Lamo has commented on the situation of his own, so I don't know how true it is, but this situation does not sound implausible to me, and if it's true, Lamo might not have made a good decision, but it's hard to see it ending in any other way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.235.70 (talk) 23:11, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

What was I charged with / on supervision for? Curious, — User:Adrian/zap2.js 15:01, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You should know! How do you suggest Wikipedia handle your betrayal of Bradley Manning? Your despicable actions are certainly notable enough to include in all disgusting detail. --77.109.215.4 (talk) 12:21, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Request for some missing facts

I recently added a paragraph to the "Film and television" and section about Lamo's involvement in five of The Screen Savers episodes. However, there were five facts that I could not find that would be good to know. In four of the five references to videos, I could not find the titles of TSS episodes. All of TTS episodes (with titles) are here but unfortunately, they do not have have dates. The IMDB page for TSS has a "full" episode list, but I feel like they are missing (at least) one episode.

The episode that I feel they are missing is the other fact that I am requesting. What was the air date for the on-site interview that lamo did at TSS? It was recorded after this wired article (about his hack of Cingular) that was published on May 29, 2003 because they talk about it. It was also recorded before an episode that aired on September 5, 2003 because the episode from that day includes clips from the episode in question. Given that it must have been recorded and aired in 2003, it must have happened before July 11, 2003 because this page about the episode in question speaks of July 11 as being less than a week away and the air date for another episode. I think that IMDB may be missing an episode because they do not have an episode airing within a week before July 11, 2003.

Bender2k14 (talk) 17:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Photo

Maybe Kevin Mitnick and Kevin Poulsen should be asked if they want to be on the same photo with Adrian Lamo. I guess his credits in the scene are gone after the wikileaks thing. --93.221.253.229 (talk) 09:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)