Talk:Cider

Food and drink C‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Holidays: Halloween C‑class

	Holidays portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of holidays on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Halloween task force.

Archives

Archive 1 - 2 March 2008

Disputable health benefits

I notice the health section mentions there are positive health effects because of antioxidants and so forth, but claims like this have been long disproved in clinical trials. To quote from the antioxidants page already linked to in the section (which has plenty of references you may want to check).

Antioxidants can cancel out the cell-damaging effects of free radicals.[1] Furthermore, people who eat fruits and vegetables, which happen to be good sources of antioxidants, have a lower risk of heart disease and some neurological diseases,[133] and there is evidence that some types of vegetables, and fruits in general, protect against a number of cancers.[134] These observations suggested the idea that antioxidants might help prevent these conditions. However, this hypothesis has now been tested in many clinical trials and does not seem to be true, since antioxidant supplements have no clear effect on the risk of chronic diseases such as cancer and heart disease.[133][135] This suggests that other substances in fruit and vegetables (possibly flavonoids), or a complex mix of substances, may contribute to the better cardiovascular health of those who consume more fruit and vegetables

I suggest at the very least removing the antioxidants reference and possibly the entire section. Suggesting that something as obviously harmful to your health as an alcoholic beverage has health benefits (which don't exist) is pretty irresponsible. --Davey McDave (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The full antioxidants article describes a much larger complexity of effects, and does not dismiss their effect in full. The paragraph you quote is also backed up by RS. Moreover, alcohol also has (some) benefit (see Long-term effects of alcohol). So I wouldn't be so blunt in removing it, but thanks for let us notice the issue. --Cyclopia ^talk 21:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cider vs perry

This article suggests that cider is made from apples or pears. I always understood that cider is made solely from apples and perry is the equivalent made from pears. Shouldn't the pear info be removed from the introduction? Perry is dealt with further on in the article. 217.155.195.19 18:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that perry should be removed from the introduction as it is mentioned as a variation down the article. My understanding (based in UK) is that cider is made with apples and perry is made with pears in a cider style. In a similar way, wine is made from grapes, but apple wine is made solely from apples in a wine style. Pear cider suggests to me that the drink is made from pears using a cider production method. Beechhouse (talk) 12:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC

Weighing into the discussion, Perry is a type of pear cider made from specific types of pear. Pear cider is only perry if it is made from perry pears. See: http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Perry_Pears

It all depends on the type of perry also... per BJCP style 27 (homebrewing competition rules) found here, common perry is made from table/culinary pears, whereas traditional perry is made from perry specific pears (like the difference between table/eating apples and cider apples)... if we're not going to mention a specific type of perry, then there is no reason to mention a specific type of pear. Either way, I agree that pears should not be in the lead for cider, if perry is mentioned later... - Adolphus79 (talk) 02:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, I think the anonymous user has misinterpreted the webpage he or she cites. I know of nothing in the literature which says that a drink fermented from pears other than perry pears is not perry. Meanwhile, it is the assessment of CAMRA that perry and pear cider are simply different names for the same drink.[1] --Killing Vector (talk) 14:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alcoholic vs. non-alcoholic

The opening paragraph seems to be too definitive when it states that "Cider... is an alcoholic beverage...." Even outside of the US/Canada, there are enough references to non-alcoholic Cider to merit a different wording. Might I suggest: "Cider... is a beverage made mainly from the juice of apples, though pears are also used;[1] (in the UK, pear cider is known as perry). In most of the world, cider is an alcoholic drink. However, it may also be non-alcoholic, as is the case in the United States and parts of Canada, where the term almost exclusively...." Zhiroc (talk) 23:22, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another data point: in Sweden, there are several well-known brands of non-alcoholic or low-alcohole cider: clear, carbonated, apple- or pear-based; used as a more mature and slightly less sweet alternative to soda soft drinks. My guess is that these have been popular since the early 20th century. They don't seem to match the Apple cider article very well. The term cider is also used for sparkling wine-like alcoholic ciders, and for alcopop-like sweet ciders, which have become a popular way to get drunk in recent years, for people who don't like the taste of beer. JöG (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This was discussed before (see Archive 1) with the idea of resolving the differences in naming of cider, hard cider, apple cider and apple juice by moving content to separate pages. In the end, this page (Cider) was used for the alcoholic drink. There is a note at the top re-directing people looking for the non-alcoholic variety to Apple cider. The Swedish case above shows that there is no easy way to define any of these terms. My own impression is that it's best to keep the introduction as concise as possible and avoid overlapping of definitions where possible. Beechhouse (talk) 09:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing "applejack" which is distilled,either by ice or steam distillation. Mydogtrouble (talk) 09:39, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch. I just moved it to the "See also" section, which is more appropriate. --Simple Bob (talk) 11:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kopparberg

It says citation needed... I see them on the shelf everyday but is that own research? ; ) How do you cite something like that? Akerbeltz (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can get some kopparberg in bottles in pubs in the UK 134.36.93.46 (talk) 07:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Theres at least five others popular brands of cider in Sweden as well, Rekorderlig for example. If not more brands is mentiond as well I think this counts as commercial and should therefore be deleted or rewritten. --Christoffre (talk) 21:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there should be more on cider in Sweden and no particular brands mentioned. Brutal Deluxe (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mulled Cider

Uh, why does mulled cider redirect to this article? It should be redirecting to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_cider ... Unfortunately, I don't know how to change the redirecting things myself, or I'd do it already. Xander T. (talk) 04:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the confusion Xander, mulling can happen with either non-alcoholic or alcoholic products, as in mulled wine - maybe 'mulled cider' should be directed to a disambiguation page to give you the choice Red58bill (talk) 03:54, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Scrumpy

At the moment the article says that scrumpy is a name for cider in the west country. It doesn't mention however that scrumpy is also a type of cider (cloudy, flat, sharp and with sediment). Some mention of this should be made. Smartse (talk) 21:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Use of beef in cider

My grandfather comes from a Welsh farming community. He worked on farms and in farming for most of his working life apart from 1939-1945. Cider-making is part of Britain's agricultural tradition, as farmers would provide cider to workers. My grandfather has told me all about the cider-making process, including a particular and peculiar detail which is missed in this article... Traditionally, when cider is too acidic, a large piece of beef is thrown into the vat. The acid goes to work on the meat and is neutralised, to the point that there is no evidence of the meat in the remaining brew. Unfortunately I can't find any info on this on the net, does anyone know of any referable resources we can use to include this information?