Talk:Chelsea Manning

Respect for self-professed gender identity

Bit of unwelcome trans-phobia in the article. Pronouns should be 'she' at least from the point where ze felt female. Dismissive "gender confusion" language should either be entirely removed or if it is a direct quote, formatted as such. If it is more important that the article use a single pronoun, then a gender neutral one should be selected. 24.146.204.47 (talk) 07:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Bradley's Dual Citizenship

I don't check this site this often, but I was concerned to see that mention of Brad's citizenship status was unceremoniously deleted on 15 May without discussion or seemingly anyone noticing. I would remind you all that it was confirmed in the House of Commons on the evening of 4th April that Bradley is indeed a British citizen under the terms of the 1981 UK Nationality Act and the UK Government has indeed intervened with the State Department on this basis on two separate occasions.

Since - full disclosure - I'm running the UK campaign, it would be ideal if someone who isn't me could keep an eye on this; but I will take on that job if noone else does.

Relevant Hansard entry: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110404/debtext/110404-0004.htm#11040438000002 Initial report in The Guardian, 2nd Feb: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/bradley-manning-uk-citizen

--Auerfeld (talk) 02:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to remove this again, and I'd appreciate if people wouldn't continue to restore it. He is American. He spent by all accounts a miserable three years in Wales when he was a teenager, being bullied because he was gay and American.

Through his mother, he is entitled to British citizenship by descent if he wants it, but he has made no request for a British passport, or British protection, or a visit from any British official. It is his mother who has been making these requests, not him, and we deal with that in the article. He made it clear through his lawyer that his nationality is American, and we can't state otherwise in the infobox where it sits without context. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 02:07, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

You're right that the infobox needs to be unambiguous.

His enlistment must have stated American citizenship. To make this claim now would imply he committed perjury when he swore the oath. That means it's probably a BLP violation if we include it. A lot of readers see the infobox but don't get to the explanation.

Granted, perjury isn't the worst accusation against him, but BLP is BLP.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 05:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Two points -- his own lawyer, David Coombs, has said dual citizenship is not an issue -- he is an American. Two, dual citizens and resident aliens (e.g., non-citizens) are welcome to join the US military. Doing so does not change their citizenship status vis-a-vis the US or their home country. (In fact, US military non-citizen servicemembers are entitled to accelerated processing of their applications to become US citizens.) So enlisting in the military would not deprive him of his dual citizenship -- if he had such citizenship. With these factors in mind, SlimVirgin is correct.--S. Rich (talk) 05:45, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

My understanding of British Nationality Law is that he is a British citizen by decent - ie, he does not have to make application for citizenship by descent as (for example) Australians do. He may well have never applied for a British passport but unless he has renounced his British citizenship I believe the British will consider him a citizen. Robert Brockway (talk) 03:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I just want to note here that each nation-state is responsible for defining who its citizens are and it is quite common for a person to be considered a citizen of a state even if they don't acknowledged it. A state may force a person to fulfill obligations of citizenship (like military service) against their will and some states (like Iran I believe) don't even have the concept of renunciation of citizenship. Even in states that do it is an application to renounce and nations can and do refuse applications for renunciation. Unless evidence of a successful renunciation is produced I believe the onus of proof lies with those who claim he is not a British citizen since British Nationality Law is quite clear on this point Robert Brockway (talk) 03:17, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

It is also worth noting that he lived in the UK for three years. Unless he was resident under a visa issued in his US passport it would appear that he was invoking one of the rights of his British citizenship and as such has acknowledged it (even though this isn't really necessary as I noted above). The argument that he isn't a British citizen is looking pretty thin to me regardless of how much he may have disliked his time in the UK. Robert Brockway (talk) 03:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

That's not likely. What you're sugggesting is that he had knowingly invoked British citizenship, voluntarily making him a dual-citizen.

While it's true that dual citizens may join the U.S. Army, they can't be given a security clearance. In other words, he'd have to have lied when enlisting, and then again when getting his TS clearance.

I'm with SlimVirgin on this.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 17:05, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

You really need to go and reread what I wrote. Your response suggests you fundamentally misunderstood what I said. I don't really have anything else to say. You can choose to disbelieve the evidence if you want but British Nationality Law is clear - he was a British citizen at birth and continues to be unless he formally renounced it. Robert Brockway (talk) 07:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Wales

Can we have a link for Wales? Just "Wales" without a link is confusing to non-Americans like me who don't know there's a Wales outside of Wales, United Kingdom nor where it is in the States. Manytexts (talk) 11:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The Wales referenced is indeed in the UK.♥GlamRock♥ 11:37, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Did I just snatch the prize for confusion? Thanks for answering ♥GlamRock♥ ^-^ Manytexts (talk) 01:09, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Friends and supporters

"The hacker group Anonymous, a clan of delusional, thirteen year-old script kiddies," Is this really what counts as NPOV around here? Somebody really ought to change the tone of this section. 70.75.92.198 (talk) 22:19, 9 July 2011 (UTC)