Talk:Beer

Some Factual Issues

History: The fermented beverage at made in China in 7000 BC contained fruit and rice. It may have been more of a wine than a beer. In any case, it is clearly incorrect to say that that it was not prepared by an amylolytic process, but by malting or mastication. Both of these are amylolytic processes, that is, they convert starch to sugar.
Made indicated correction. The cited article used the term amylolytic fermentation to refer to the use of koji mold. Dr Thermo (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

"As almost any substance containing carbohydrates, mainly sugars or starch, can naturally undergo fermentation..." This is clearly incorrect. There is plenty of carbohydrate that is not starch or sugar, like cellulose. Only a few simple sugars can undergo alcoholic fermentation. Starches have to be broken down into sugars before they will ferment. Cellulose can be broken into fermentable sugar, but it is difficult and never undertaken to produce an alcoholic beverage.
Made indicated correction.Dr Thermo (talk) 22:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Hops. The first historical mention of the use of hops in beer was in the Statutes of Adalhard of Corbie, also known as Adalhard the Elder. He was abbot of the Monastery of St Peter and St Stephen at Corbie in northern France: Nelson, The Barbarian's Beverage pp 107-109. Not Corvey in Westphalia (Adalhard is credited with founding that monastery).
Made indicated clarification. Dr Thermo (talk) 22:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ingredients: Agave is not a starch source for beer, it gives a sweet sap from which wine is made. Dr Thermo (talk) 02:09, 27 December 2011 (UTC) Removed mention of agave. Also removed reference to Jackson's article http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000120.html. This article is good stuff, but it makes no mention of starch. Pulque, which is the beverage made from agave sap is more akin to wine than beer. The article on it is pretty detailed. Dr Thermo (talk) 23:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Factual Issues First Paragraph

"It is produced by the brewing and fermentation of sugars, mainly derived from malted cereal grains, most commonly malted barley and malted wheat. Sugars derived from maize (corn) and rice are widely used adjuncts because of their lower cost." Brewing sugars? It would be better to say: "It is produced by the saccharification of starch and fermentation of the resulting sugar. The starch and saccharification enzymes are often derived from malted cereal grains, most commonly malted barley and malted wheat. Unmalted maize (US: corn) and rice are widely used adjuncts to lighten the flavor and because of their lower cost. The preparation of beer is called brewing."
Let me know what you think.Dr Thermo (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Done Dr Thermo (talk) 22:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

No, the first version was correct and the second version incorrect. Beer is frequently made with sugars included in the wort that are not completely derived from the saccharinification of starch, eg candi sugar, and has been for more than 150 years, at least; there are whole styles of beer that rely on brewing sugars not completely derived from grains, eg many Belgian beers and English barley wines; and there are many types of brewing sugars on sale to commercial brewers that are not derived from grain. Please revert. Zythophile (talk) 06:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

What other sugars in barley wines? The sugars present in lambics from fruits are consequential but not vital to the style. Gueuze has no extra sugars necessary although some commercial brewers add it.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 17:29, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

No. 1 invert sugar is not unusual in Barley Wine. If it's dark in colour, then possibly No. 3 invert.Patto1ro (talk) 14:12, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Third most popular

Is beer really the third most popular beverage? It's ahead of coffee - and wine? A lot of women don't like beer, it's a fairly male-dominated drink, so that's half the population wiped out already. Or perhaps it's because men drink so much of it that it outweighs the others? I would have considered cola and lemonade as well, but perhaps they're more children-orientated.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 March 2012

Please modify the first line after the second paragraph - currently reads "..though may range from less than 1% abv, to over 20% abv in rare cases." - Should read "..though may range from less than 1% abv, to over 40% abv in rare cases."

Sources for this modification: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/16/worlds-strongest-beer-sco_n_463975.html or http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/7250444/Strongest-beer-in-the-world-Brewdog-produces-41pc-ale.html

Simpleeddie (talk) 11:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Is that necessary? 41% is "over 20%", and one brew is even rarer than "rare cases". --Ian Dalziel (talk) 12:19, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. "above 20% abv" is better. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 01:42, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Alternatives to hops

Perhaps that an article called either Alternatives to hops for beermaking or simply Herbal beer can be made. Appearantly the herbs that are most commonly used are: alfalfa pellets, wormwood, heather, ti leaves, oak leaves, nettles, spruce tips, parsley, sage, rosemary,thyme, alecost, betony, dandelion, horehound, milk thistle, nettle, sage and yarrow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.186.148 (talk) 08:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Oldest food quality regulation?

The article's statement that "the Reinheitsgebot (purity law), perhaps the oldest food-quality regulation still in use in the 21st century", seems to ignore the fact that much older religious laws are still practiced (e.g. Kosher or Kashrut), that are specific to food and in particular to quality, for example, the treifot examination of the slaughtered carcass which includes "70 different categories of injuries, diseases, and abnormalities whose presence renders the animal non-kosher". If one chooses to differentiate between secular and religious law, perhaps the statement should be explicit about that.