Talk:Vangelis

Lack of sources; POV

The article clearly violates Wiki rules about writing biographies from a neutral and objective point of view, rather than a fan's POV, e.g. "...considered pivotal in the development of progressive rock and concept albums"; "...to the dismay of much of the Greek populace, the job was given to someone else"; the Mouratidis encomium quote; etc. The article also violates the rule of verifiability since it does not contain almost any references; in fact, the only references are a Vangelis interview and the artist's various writings archived online. The Gnome 20:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

This article has improved! Kudos to everyone involved in the work.-The Gnome (talk) 11:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Vangelis Song?

Is the song in this video |here by Vangelis? If so, what is the name of the song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.110.74 (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

This is not the place to ask, but I'll answer anyway: no, not even remotely like Vangelis' sound and style. --maf (talk-cont) 00:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

That's from David Arkenstone for sure, from the album 'The Spirit of Olympia' I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.144.147.75 (talk) 08:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Olympics

I really feel that the section about Vangelis and the Athens 2004 Olympics should be omitted. It is inappropriate and not suitable for an encyclopedia entry.Amadeus webern (talk) 18:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Greetings Amadeus webern, sorry to disagree, but if it is adequately sourced and referenced, respects the "Living persons" criteria, etc. it should stay. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 20:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Greetings Technopat, but this is supposed to be a serious encyclopedia entry not an article written by Vangelis' fan club. Vangelis' resentment about not getting the job is irrelevant and shouldn't be included in a serious encyclopedia article. Amadeus webern (talk) 13:37, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

To do list

1) Cite every paragraph as closely as possible. Done
2) Clean up; remove POV etc. etc. Done
3) Find something on personal life; missus, kids etc. Done
4) Clean up recent work section; it's too "none flow-ey" right now. Done Utan Vax (talk) 23:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Finding more images. Doing... Utan Vax (talk) 14:15, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that stuff was all done, unless it got un-done along the way. Gingermint (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Marriage status

The article currently states 'Vangelis also revealed that he had never been married, and, instead, was involved in his third long-term relationship at the time'. Yet the 2005 Telegraph inteview cited only supports the second clause with 'He says he is currently on his third long-term relationship and that marriage never works for anyone: "If anything, you should have a certificate at the end if you have a good life together."'(page2) .

Logically marriage is a long-term relationship, but not all long-term relationships are necessarily marriages, so 'he had never been married' seems a false deduced statement. Instead he would seem to have had at least 2 marriages:

• Vangelis - The Child Of Aphrodite Explodes! "Oor", February 25, 1976 in the preamble mentions 'Vangelis’ wife of French origin'
• Interview by A.L. from Backstage magazine, 1982 'On "La Fete Sauvage" we hear for the first time the golden voice of Vana Veroutis. Not only does she sing on Vangelis records, she is also his wife, or was, because Vangelis claims he now doesn't even know were she is.' - and as Vana Veroutis is Greek, so therefore this would have been a separete second marriage.

Given how little seems published due to his aversion to giving interviews, are these robust enough sources (under WP:BIO) to amend the entry ? At the very least, we should remove the statement that he has never married, as the Telegraph reference would not seem to support that. David Ruben ^Talk 01:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, I'll take a look into it and adapt it with the website you provided. I think I've used "elsew" a few times in the article so I'll have to find them again and "refname" them. Utan Vax (talk) 10:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

 Done - I have reworded and then added another paragraph mentioning your sources, tell me what you think. Also, how do you think the article looks now as a whole? Utan Vax (talk) 11:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Concerning Veronique, some albums from the early 1980s credit a certain "Veronique Skawinska" with cover art and photography. While she hardly has a French surname, this may be the same person. JFW | T@lk 11:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Found this little gem (Spelling errors left in): "On the other hand, Mark Griffins book "The Unknown Man" makes no notice of this [marriage to Vana Veroutis] at all, but mentiones instead that Vangelis lived with Veronique Skawinska, whos responsible for most photographs used in the artwork of many of Vangelis his albums from the late seventies and early eighties..." - So, with conflicting reports, what's true? Utan Vax (talk) 11:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

With regard to Vana's marriage, one has to be careful citing sources from magazines, they are not always correct. It is a shame there is so much such devotion on his personal life when the artist made it clear he has no interest in promoting his personal live. This explains the lack of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zyser (talk • contribs) 11:59, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Per NPOV and TRUTH, I think we should cite all the reports, however conflicting, and move on. Well done on finding that. JFW | T@lk 12:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

You were right about Veronique being the Veronique Stawinska and I've changed the article to reflect that. I'll take a look at that source up there again and see if I can add anymore. Thanks guys! Utan Vax (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, tried to tweak as ref to Vana indicates previously married (as for not knowing her locatiion, seems she was probably in Wales or Birmingham at the time of that interview, having previously been in the US - see http://www.vanaverouti.gr/biography.htm). David Ruben ^Talk 00:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

GA review pre-notes

I'd love to do the GA review but my experience with music articles is fairly limited. I'll still give a couple of notes before they come up in the review.

• The lead should be at least twice as long (maybe even three times) and should summarize the whole article. For example, it should mention his involvement with Aphrodite's Child and collaboration with other artists. Articles at WP:FA sometimes give good ideas for a good lead.

 Doing...

• Replace {{cquote}} with <blockquote> per WP:MOSQUOTE.

 Done

• The references should list the publisher and the correct name of the article, plus the publication date where available. {{cite web}} may help. Fansites rarely pass as reliable sources, although I know that elsew is one of the best sources available.

 Doing...

• Why does the Discography section just list his studio albums? He is as much known, probably even better known, for his soundtracks.

– sgeureka ^t•c 22:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review

Getting in ahead of the GA review...

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. I've put my detailed review on the comments page. This review is focused more on content analysis than the GA review is likely to be; see my review. This article is, in my opinion, not far (content-wise), from an A rating. Feel free to comment here or on my talk page (and good luck with the GA review). Magic♪piano 15:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vangelis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   One slightly annoying thing is that too many paragraphs begin with the "In/On [year/date]," construction.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Incomplete citations, few of which reference reliable sources. This is the article's biggest problem and it won't be fixed within a week.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Thirty seconds is the limit on music samples, the fair use rationale is lacking, and the caption does not back up the standard FUR (i.e. what specifically does it illustrate?).

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   —Zeagler (talk) 01:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment

I think this article is coming along well. Anyone willing to work with me so we can potentially get this to GA status eventually? Enigma message 02:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Please don't try and steal my brainchild. Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 14:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Surname: Papathanas(s)iou

In Greek, there is only one sigma when he's written in his native language. So why do we put two 'ss' into his surname at all? Mind you, the translation of his 2002 Greek magazine interview always writes him with one 's'. I think that's correct? -andy 92.230.23.225 (talk) 14:55, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

One 's' can be pronounced either as 's' or as 'z'. Double-s clarifies the pronounciation in English.-The Gnome (talk) 11:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Painting

About the following remark:

"As a hobby, Vangelis enjoys painting; his first art exhibition toured South America in 2005."

I was living in Valencia (Spain) in 2002 and 2003; at some point during those years, I recall I saw an art exhibition by Vangelis. If someone knows better, maybe it's a point that could be improved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.97.35.176 (talk) 02:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Records sold?

Anybody know how many records did Vangelis sold in his career? This could be a interesting trivia item. 66.254.34.96 (talk) 07:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Text of Individual Albums Needs Immediate Attention

The various Vangelis and Jon & Vangelis releases are listed, but the content is lacking and/or contain no references or citations. Someone familiar with this artist needs to champion this area, in my opinion, to improve and expand the information. I had submitted a new page of Page of Life, for example, but some uninformed editor immediately deleted it without careful reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.212.218 (talk) 22:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Page of Life now has an article. 28bytes (talk) 20:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixed a little grammar in the first paragraph

Fixed incorrect "80´s" to formal "1980s" inline with Wikipedia's standards. (I forgot to log in, sorry 'bout that) ZellDenver (talk) 03:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks :) And don't worry about not signing in to edit! It's not required ;) Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 09:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Need a citation for birth date

The birth date in the article was added many years ago with no citation. There's no certainty that it's correct. Need a verifiable citation from a reliable source. Softlavender (talk) 11:15, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

This is widely known and indeed easy to find in other sources. Information that is verifiable doesn't always need tagging with {{citation needed}}. JFW | T@lk 18:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, thanks, I verified this on GoogleBooks. I wasn't aware that this had been published (forgot to check before posting that); in fact I figured it might be speculation or guessing since he rarely if ever gives interviews. Softlavender (talk) 02:41, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

External Links

Vangelis Forum. I hope I'm doing this right? I undid your edit JFW as I was trying to add a comment there but was unsuccessful. Still learning the ropes.

I would argue for inclusion of the Vangelis Forum Link in External Links for the simple fact that it is more than a discussion board but has also proven useful in gaining news and insight to past and present releases of Vangelis. Also, External Links to websites such as Movements and Elsewhere are personal sites that not only contain information but many times personal opinion. Even the Vangelis Collector's Page is really one man's personal Vangelis Collection. All are wonderful and valid sites but none are official. The Vangelis Forum I have found rarely if ever discusses his personal life, but rather has veered into very technical areas of Vangelis, his equipment, his creation of music as well as specific breakdowns of certain albums. In fact it is the only forum I know of in existence (Other than the Direct Mailing list on yahoo) that actually discusses the music, releases and techniques of Vangelis. The forum is broken down into an Album release category (Much like the Discography on the other sites listed in External Links), a category on Concerts, Collaborations, etc. Maybe I'm unclear in how it differs compared to the other external links listed, other than format and interaction. Thank you.

The rules are clear on the inclusion of forums. Wikipedia is not a place to put links to fan sites, but sites that could be of use for references. VangelisCollector is helpful for references on records, even if it is the collection of one single person.

Websites need to be of certain quality and independence. The forum you mention is well known to copy news items, text, and images from the other websites, so even in those instances it has not earned any unique content that could be useful for Wikipedia. People discussing albums is not likely going to help improve the content of Wikipedia, because it is more difficult to verify.

So I agree that the forum should not be included.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Juniorllc (talk • contribs) 07:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)