Talk:Gwanggaeto the Great

Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility Start‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Korea C‑class Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by one or more inactive working groups.

Disputed history

CHINESE GOVERNMENT SHOULD ACCEPT " KORGURYO KINGDOM" AS KOREAN TERRITORY. YOU CANNOT CHANGE HISTORY. HISTORY IS TO LEARN FROM THE PAST, PRESENT, AND FOR THE FUTURE. WHAT CHINESE GOVERNMENT DOING WITH " NORTHEAST PROJECT" IS VERY VERY STUPID. TRUTH WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL. IT CAN ONLY CREATE FRICTION BETWEEN KOREANS AND CHINESE. IN THE END CHINESE WILL LOSE. LIKE TIBET, TAIWAN, CHINA ( WEST COAST PROVINCE) UIGHUR PROVINCE, AND MANCHURIA ( KOREA). THE WORD CHINA OR CHINA LAND IS VERY SUPERFICIAL LAND ONLY WAY CHINESE GOVERNMENT TO KEEP CONTROL 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE BY HAVING " COMMUNIST REGIME". EVEN COMMUNIST REGIME DON'T TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT CHINESE HISTORY. CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS KILLING THEMSELVES MAKING THEMSELVES LOOK VERY VERY STUPID. IN THE END KOREANS WILL WIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Population6 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Chinese government maintains that Koguryŏ was a local Kingdom of a Chinese national minority, i.e. on Chinese territory. Please also refer to the discussion page on Koguryŏ. Babelfisch 07:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

so what? chinese can claim whatever they want...it won't change the history though Koguryo was never a chinese kingdom. chinese (mandarin) can only claim 'Han' dynasties as their historic kingdoms just because they forcefully dominate manchuria, tibet and east turkestan that doesn't mean they belonged to them 139.80.123.40 13:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

er...

some of this seems like someone began to rant about Korean history...especially that huge chunk without references.

--Heero Kirashami (talk) 19:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ainu?

There is no citation for Gwanggaeto attacking Ainu peoples. Is it implying there were Ainu settlements in Manchuria/Southern Siberia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rekishiotaku (talk • contribs) 12:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The great?

The title, Gwanggaeto the great has to be changed into Emperor Gwanggaeto since the rulers of Goguryeo were called "Taewang" from the reign of Micheon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.101.9.93 (talk) 09:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Emperor is right.

If we see the texts written on the wall of the tombs of Goguryeo, or the stele, we can know that Goguryean rulers used the title, Taewang. So Emperor Gwanggaeto is right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:World historia|World (talk • contribs) 10:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC) World historia (talk) 08:19, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, You are Wrong. The academia, including Korean, consider Goguryeo as Kingdom, Not Empire.--121.167.254.156 (talk) 11:24, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please argue with historical evidences, not what academy under colonialism. If you cannot, accept the title, Taewang.

Recent page move

I undid the recent page move from Gwanggaeto the Great to Emperor Gwanggaeto per WP:COMMONNAME. "Emperor Gwanggaeto" has only two hits with Google Books and only one with Google Scholar.

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

--Kusunose 02:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 10:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gwanggaeto the Great → Emperor Gwanggaeto – This is processual request. This page had been titled Gwanggaeto the Great more than three years and before that, Gwanggaeto the Great of Goguryeo. Recently the page was moved twice to Emperor Gwanggaeto. As I thought thw new title is agaist established guidelines (see my reasoning below) and controversial, I undid them per WP:STATUSQUO and now initiating discussion per WP:RM. The reason for the move, as I see from above sections (#The great? and #Emperor is right.), is that his title "Taewang" should be translated as "Emperor". --Kusunose 06:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose First, the new title seems not WP:COMMONly used by reliable sources (see #Recent page move). Even with the Google Web Search, "Emperor Gwanggaeto" gets about 1000 pages, while "Gwanggaeto the Great" returns millions of pages. Second, whether or not "Taewang" should be translated as "Emperor" in English, per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean)#Royalty, artile titles for Korean royals are not prefixed with one's title, "King" or "Emperor". --Kusunose 06:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The subject is generally given as "King Kwanggaet'o". See Kim's The History of Korea (2005), Hwang's A History of Korea (2010), or Seth's A Concise History of Korea (2010). Kauffner (talk) 15:39, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per following Google Book Search.
- "King Gwanggaeto" -"King Gwanggaeto the great" -LLC -Wikipedia 136
- "King Gwanggaeto the great" -LLC -Wikipedia 59
- "Gwanggaeto the great" -"King Gwanggaeto the great" -LLC -Wikipedia 43
- "Emperor Gwanggaeto" -LLC -Wikipedia 0

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can only access Google. Since it is Korean history, you should search korean information in naver. If you find 광개토태왕 and 광개토대왕, 광개토태왕 is overwhelmingly more. 222.101.9.93 (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is English Wikipedia. Per WP:USEENGLISH, we should follow the established English usage, not Korean. And do not remove comments made by other editors. See WP:TALK. --Kusunose 01:06, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. 태왕, taewang, does not translate as "Emperor" (황제). We have a (stub) article on Taewang, and the translation is relevant since renaming the article to "Emperor" contradicts the information on that page, which specifically (and correctly) states that it does not mean that. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 05:03, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As the lawyers say, this is a distinction without a difference. Taewang was understood as a title equivalent to that of the Chinese emperor (wangtae). "The great" suggests a comparison with other rulers of the same dynasty. All the Goguryeo kings held the title taewang. In any case, the article title should correspond to the way the subject is referred to in the best available English-language sources. What he is called in Korean should not have anything to do with it. Kauffner (talk) 23:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Using "Emperor" or "King" before the monarch's name is uncommon in Wikipedia. Reigen (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move protected

Since people seem to be move-warring in the middle of an RM, I've move-protected the page for a while. If I see it resume upon expiration of the move protection, I'll block whoever it is. Use this time to sort out the RM, and note that my protection isn't an endorsement of the this title; I merely think that a page should stay in one place during an RM, and this is where the RM was started. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]