Talk:Metro Atlanta

Daughter article

This page is a daughter article of the Atlanta, Georgia page WhisperToMe 08:27, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Where did county population numbers come from?

These numbers seem too high, where did they come from: 1,090,000 (Fulton), 781,000 (Cobb)...

This appears to be vandalism:

Revision as of 19:17, 27 August 2006 (edit) 24.98.187.0 (Talk)

68.219.137.236 07:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• Please adjust for 2010 census. Also, the alphebetical column wasn't updated in the fix. Netdragon (talk) 19:16, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Counties: 20, 19 or 5?

The article starts off According to the 2000 census, the 20-county Atlanta, Georgia metropolitan area. However the list of counties, and the map, only show 19 counties. Looking at the US Census Bureau's list of metro areas [1], it seems the difference is Pickens County, which they include in the metro area but we don't.

To add further to the confusion, the article on MARTA effectively lists metro Atlanta's counties as being Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton and no others.

So which is correct. Or do we need to rewrite this article to say there are multiple conflicting definitions in play. -- Chris j wood 21:56, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No response to the above question in three weeks, so I've added {{contradict}} to the page in the hope somebody who can help resolve the current articles self-contradictory state will notice it. -- Chris j wood 21:31, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

When in doubt, go with the census definition. Kaldari 19:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Actually, looks like it's 28 counties [2]. Kaldari 19:48, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Ok. I've dropped the map link (Image:Map_of_Georgia_highlighting_ATLMetroArea.PNG) as it no longer corresponds to the definition in the text. Anybody know how to update it?. -- Chris j wood 00:51, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • This is getting silly. We have had 5-county, 19-county, 20-county and 28-county definitions. Now a couple of anonymous editors have added 11-county and 12-county 'core areas', in neither case citing any source in the article, or in this discussion. As they are anonymous, I cannot discuss their contributions with them, but I'm guessing from the lack of backup info that these are there own private views, so I'm going to revert the changes. If they are reading this, please feel to reinstate if you can cite a decent source. -- Chris j wood 23:19, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Dropped map again

Anonymous contributor 164.111.195.234 has re-instated the map I dropped above. It is not clear if this was a statement that 164.111.195.234 believes the 28-county definition to be wrong, or whether they simply hadn't noticed that the map no longer corresponds to the definition of the Atlanta metropolitan area adopted above. Either way, either the text or the map must change to keep consistency, and as 164.111.195.234 is anonymous and made no attempt to explain the change, it is easiest to stick with the text and drop the map again. -- Chris j wood 12:04, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Atlantas'metro area is the size of Holland or Vancouver Island.That's a little extreme for a metro area don't you think.It must be the largest metro area in the WORLD and makes Atlanta seem more populus than it actually is.

Actually, Atlanta's metro is not the largest in the world. It's around 8500-10000 sq miles with much of it being rural. Also, if you read the Georgia article you would know that Georgia has the smallest average county size in the country. So people see 28 counties and automatically think metro Atlanta is gigantic (it is large) when it's actually smaller than Houston and a few others in the country.

The map needs updating I think. For example Hall county is listed as being part of the MSA, but it isn't highlighted. 130.207.62.67 (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I-75 is NOT the widest highway...

I find this one piece of info (under transportation) to be incorrect: "Currently, I-75 is 15 lanes wide at the Windy Hill Interchange (8 northbound, 7 southbound), and as such, is the widest freeway in the world."

If you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Toronto you'll see that: "Bisecting the city from west to east across its inner suburbs, Highway 401 (or simply, "the 401") acts as a bypass of the downtown core, and is both the busiest and widest highway in the world" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.124.194.75 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 31 August 2006.

Edge cities

why is gwinnett under edge cities? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.33.142.156 (talk • contribs) 03:07, January 30, 2007 (UTC).

You're right - since Gwinnett is a county I have removed it. I also removed Cumberland, which is simply a business area that overlays parts of the cities of Smyrna and Marietta. -- Satori Son 03:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I also move Buckhead to the "Suburbs with 10,000 or more inhabitants" section, since it is simply a neighborhood entirely within the city limits of Atlanta. -- Satori Son 03:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

As Qqqqqq (talk · contribs) correctly pointed out, I added the wrong Buckhead article. It should have been the Buckhead (Atlanta) article, and obviously not the article for the very small town of Buckhead, Georgia. Sorry about that; I have fixed. -- Satori Son 04:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The portion of Buckhead that is mostly office space is "Lenox". The problem is that most people call Lenox Buckhead instead (even though Buckhead is really the area from Lenox to Vinings, Cumberland, Midtown, Ridgewood, and Bolton). In fact, economic development guides call Lenox the Buckhead office district. Therefore, I would say Buckhead is applicable except for one thing - it was urbanized more than 30 years ago, just like Marietta proper. Netdragon (talk) 03:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Based on the article for Edge Cities there are five criteria. I don't think the ones listed in the article match those. For example, Gwinnett and Cumberland don't match "It must be perceived by the population as one place." The article says "the general tendency to identify oneself as being "from Gwinnett." Is that true? Most people I know say they are from Duluth or Norcross, etc. Akubhai 16:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and have removed Gwinnett County, Georgia yet once again. It clearly does not qualify.

And while I agree that Cumberland (Atlanta) probably does not qualify either (having also removed it once before), it's a closer call. The article for it does describe it as an edge city, so probably an issue that should be taken up at Talk:Cumberland (Atlanta). -- Satori Son 16:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that Cumberland doesn't fit. Cumberland is definitely has established a sense of place since 1980. It fits the concept perfectly. It is the office portion of the zip code and Vinings is the residential portion. This is commonly how we break it down (I live in Smyrna, right outside of Vinings). The only portion of contention is the Overlook, which is usually considered Vinings and probably should be excluded. However, the Cumberland Parkway side of Mount Wilkinson and Cumberland Parkway until Paces Ferry is still considered part of the Cumberland activity center, including the Home Depot Headquarters. Part of "Cumberland" extends into Smyrna along Spring Rd, and part into Sandy Springs on Aker's Mill. However, if you omit that, then the rest is: Aker's Mill, Circle 75, Windy Ridge, Cobb Parkway, Galleria Parkway, Interstate North, Cumberland Parkway, Riverwood and Cumberland Boulevard. This is almost completely office and retail with a few condos. Wildwood and Windy Hill is probably outside the area you could consider Cumberland. Netdragon (talk) 03:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Are Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, and Alpharetta "characterized by more jobs than bedrooms"? Akubhai 17:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would think Sandy Springs and Dunwoody would easily meet that criteria, what with the high rises and major office complexes along Hammond and the Ga. 400 corridor, but I'll admit I haven't seen any statistics. No clue about Alpharetta. Maybe I'll dig into this when I get a chance (been working on the new WP:ATL templates and categories today...). -- Satori Son 18:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I would say that Alpharetta is characterized as a bedroom community from the perspective of metro Atlanta. It has a lot of relos for business regional HQ etc but a lot of suburbs have that. We could just as easily say that Kennessaw, Roswell and a whole host of other cities qualify as edge cities as well under this concept. Do we want to go down this road? I am removing Alpharetta and moving it to the suburb list Netdragon (talk) 03:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I must say that I think Gwinnett qualifies as an edge city, simply because most people do say they live in Gwinnett, as opposed to people in Cobb or North Fulton who more commonly name the city in which they live. Also, Gwinnett has its own niche identity, via the Arena and Gladiators, than do any of the other edge cities listed. auburnirishman 23:57

While I certainly agree that Gwinnett County has a distinct identity, I just don't think it meets the strict definition of an edge city (see Edge city#Definitions). Gwinnett County as a whole is more residential than commercial. In fact, many more people commute out of Gwinnett County than commute into it each day for work (I used to be one of them: Duluth to Buckhead every day - what a nightmare...). -- Satori Son 18:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The Central Perimeter is the real "edge city" comprising the office districts of Sandy Springs and Dunwoody. People call it that as well. A recent report shows it has 32 million square feet of office space (http://www.colliers.com/Content/Repositories/Base/Markets/Atlanta/English/Market_Report/PDFs/3Q09OfficeMarketReport.pdf). The problem for most people when considering it a place is that it spans parts of Dunwoody and Sandy Springs and therefore isn't one "census-designated place", however I don't believe that matters. I am going to add the Perimeter. Netdragon (talk) 03:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I reverted anonymous removal of cities from the edge cities list, but is there any way of determining with certainty which suburbs meet the criteria for being an "edge city"? Qqqqqq 17:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Leave edge city discussion to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edge_cities#Atlanta and mirror that list. No need to duplicate discussion here. Netdragon (talk) 23:45, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I once again removed questionable edge cities on a list that was started without any discussion. Please discuss in discussion for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edge_cities#Atlanta - If it's not on there, it shouldn't be in this article. Town Center was also left off, which was inconsistent. It seems to me some people are plugging their favorite areas. This is not an article for advocacy. It should be facts-based. Netdragon (talk) 19:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Changing the name

I propose changing the name of this page from 'Atlanta Metropolitan Area' to 'Metro Atlanta' for two reasons: 1) It more accurately reflects its name, and 2) Other metro areas, such as Chicago, are titled "Chicagoland", and renaming this page would move Atlanta into that category. auburnirishman 23:59 20 Jun 2007

Actually Atlanta metropolitan area is the more proper name. You'll find the corresponding article for Chicago is Chicago metropolitan area. Take a look at United States metropolitan area and you'll find among the Top 25 metropolitan areas, the xxxxx metropolitan area form is the majority, followed by Greater xxxxx and then a few singleton forms related to how a particular area (strongly) names itself (Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, Delaware Valley, Inland Empire (California) including one, Metro Detroit, matching your proposed form. While there certainly is common usage among residents for "Metro Atlanta", I don't think it justifies the rename. AUTiger » talk 17:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with AUTiger. And Metro Atlanta already redirects to here, so anyone searching for that will still end up in the same place. -- Satori Son 17:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

I think that we should at least mention the differences in race distribution and wealth throughout the area. Since Metro Atlanta stands as the definitive example of the New South, it is only right that this article should talk about the differences seen when one compares income and educational qualities of areas such as the downtown district and Marietta. Sociology isn't my forte, but I would be willing to work with others to bring this about.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrathel (talk • contribs) 4 July 2007, 00:36 (UTC).

I'm not entirely sure what it is you wish to discuss or compare when you use an undefined term like "downtown district" - do you mean the City of Atlanta, the Downtown neighborhood (CBD) of the City of Atlanta, or specific zips/census tracts? In any case, it sounds suspiciously like (or perilously close to) original research. AUTiger » talk 06:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry if I failed to define my terms, or, even worse, implied that research needed to be done-- but what I was attempting to get at was that the article could benefit from a section that focuses on the racial, educational, and monetary distributions throughout the Metro Atlanta area. This of course could be done with a chart or a map; I don't really know to be honest...I just thought it would give the article a bit of depth.Mrathel 05:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. The Dallas metro area, for instance, has a segment for demographics. Metro Atlanta should as well. Mr2b (talk) 00:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Public Transportation

"The first commuter rail line would run south of the city, eventually extended to Lovejoy and possibly Hampton near Atlanta Motor Speedway. This project took two decades under Democrats, and has now been threatened by some Republicans in the Georgia General Assembly as being "wasteful", despite being successful in every other U.S. city that has it."

Probably the most obvious example of pro-public transportation bias in this article. No measure of success is cited. Arguments against a commuter rail-line connecting Lovejoy and Hampton are ignored. Arguments against expansion of MARTA into Clayton, Cobb, and Gwinnett Counties are similarly ignored, and instead opposition to MARTA is passively associated with "White Flight." No citations for that either.

Should stick to the facts and figures of the transportation system. If this article has to delve into the politics of public transportation, both sides should be presented as unbiased as possible.

Speaking of arguments against public transportation...how come there are no sections for entertainment or sports? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.217.89.179 (talk) 07:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, (has anyone else considered this?) that despite the reasons for the powers that be who decided Atlanta instead of Miami is the 'major population center' of the southeast, I find that: including 28 counties in your "CSA/Metro area" just to be distinguished by the designation of "largest population in the southeast" is a bit excessive. 28 counties? that pretty much encompasses 1/3 of the entire state! If Miami were to include 28 counties nearby, it would be one of the largest in the world! I still think Miami (and its 3 counties) are a more realistic reasonable designation for largest Metro Statistical population center. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahiim03 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Demographics

The Atlanta city page keeps getting demographic info for the entire metro. A demographic section needs to be created on this page so the Atlanta demographic section can be cleaned up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmann3333 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Suburbs and surrounding cities

• The current lists are all mixed up. Many exurbs are listed as suburbs. Then there are two lists: cities and suburbs. There is no clear definition of what a suburb and an exurb is. E.g. some of the "suburbs", such as Cartersville, are really exurbs. Many incorporated cities with over 10,000 are listed as suburbs. The data used was obviously mixed and out of date. I will combine the list, leave any existing cities/suburbs/exurbs with under 10,000 since they will probably grow anyway and/or may be included with different CDP boundaries in the 2010 census. Finally, http://www.citypopulation.de/USA-Georgia.html is not very complete. I'm going to update data from 2009 data in http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/files/SUB-EST2008-ALL.csv and sort by population since it's already partially sorted that way. Some CDPs like Vinings CDP and Belvedere Park CDP haven't been updated by the census bureau since 2000 (and thus not listed on the CSV). For those CDPs, I will use other data and cite it (usually City Data since people who maintain the City Data pages are usually very picky). I don't know why I am bothering since the 2010 census will be available in a year, however this will in fact make our work easier when it is released. The article http://www.census.gov/econ/census07/pdf/state/georgia.pdf is also helpful, since it talks about the CDPs. For instance, Brookhaven is part of "North Atlanta CDP" and there is no known seperate census data for Brookhaven alone. Netdragon (talk) 20:42, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
• Warning!!! This should all be updated in 2011 based on the 2010 census, which will be the most accurate source of data. Note that many Wikipedia pages site to old data, and should probably be updated to the latest estimates, then updated again in 2010. Netdragon (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
  • DONE for suburbs list and map. (Todo: Individual city pages and county list are still outdated) Netdragon (talk) 19:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
• Vinings was not included even though it's a census-designated place according to the Census Bureau and over 10,000 people as of 2007 according to http://www.city-data.com/city/Vinings-Georgia.html Netdragon (talk) 20:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
• As mentioned above, some incorporated cities with over 10,000 people are listed as suburbs. This includes Buford, Lilburn, and Powder Springs were listed as suburbs when they are really cities with over 10,000 people. There are others, however these are the three examples I chose Netdragon (talk) 21:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

"World's largest toll-free calling zone"

"The area is the world's largest toll-free calling zone spanning 7,162 square miles (18,549 km2), has three active telephone area codes, and local calling extending into portions of two others."

What is this supposed to mean? Area code 406 covers all of Montana (147,042 square miles), to name just one of many that cover a larger area than metro Atlanta. And there's no way it's the biggest toll-free area requiring 10-digit dialing—several in Canada are clearly bigger, and possibly some in the US. Could it refer to population? I don't know if those numbers are available anywhere, but that seems pretty dubious too. Jwsinclair (talk) 18:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I also wonder what that entry is about: "world largest toll-free zone". Almost every phone service in the US is toll-free for domestic calls, except for very few.Merlin1935 (talk) 05:55, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Counties in CSA/MSA

According to http://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/us_wall/Dec_2009/cbsa_us_1209.pdf, the list of counties is a bit off. Putnam County is not in either the MSA or the CSA, and Troup County (in the CSA as part of the LaGrange MSA) is missing. There's also no way to differentiate between counties in the MSA and CSA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattquest50 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Japanese Demographics

What is the value of citing Japanese population in Metro Atlanta as at 1990 without a contextual reference to present day population? Without reference to growth, this citation of a two decade-old statistics has no significance. Suggests to delete it, or relate the 1990 number to most recent population figure to provide meaning. Merlin1935 (talk) 06:11, 20 July 2012 (UTC)