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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 66.234.33.13 (talk) at 02:36, 7 September 2012 (→‎request re-review of Paul Brown article: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Percy Fender

Glad that you've started improving his article. He probably wasn't Jewish, but I think it was widely rumoured that he was and he may have had Jewish ancestry. That might be one reason why someone acknowledged as the best captain of his time, and a very good all-round cricketer, never captained England, as there seems to have been a lot of anti-semitism in Britain between the wars. Of course getting on the wrong side of Lord Harris through writing for the press when touring Australia in 1920-1 probably had a lot to do with it too! JH (talk page) 09:05, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have the biography, but it must be twenty years or so since I read it, so I don't recall much beyond that: (1) yes, it's a very good book and (2) yes, Fender was a great bloke. JH (talk page) 17:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"When cricket resumed after the war in 1920 he claimed 124 victims." Have you overlooked 1919? JH (talk page) 20:44, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ta. JH (talk page) 20:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Three of his fingers were crushed at the tips, and when they healed were left a quarter-of-an-inch shorter than the others and remained stiff and numb for the rest of his life." Does Streeton say whether it was his right (bowling) or his left (non-bowling) hand? It's something that one would like to know. JH (talk page) 21:08, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"He began to experiment with leg spin bowling..." So presumanly he had bowled medium pace up to that point? That could do with being made clearer. "In the meantime, Fender attempted to gain a place at Caius College, Cambridge but was turned down owing to the restriction his injury placed upon his cricket, and his desire to concentrate on academic interests to further his business career." Surely his inability to play much cricket shouldn't have been a major factor? Also surely a "desire to concentrate on academic interests" should have been a plus point? Would it read better as "his desire to concentrate primarily on those parts of the curriculum which would help him in his business career"? JH (talk page) 08:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Overseas players

I have decided to wade into something a little different (and I don't mean all these IndyCar articles I'm suddenly working on). I'm am currently drafting an article on overseas players in county cricket (User:Harrias/Overseas players in English county cricket). Any input and suggestion of sources would be greatly appreciated. I've currently got a lot of the information from Birley's Social History of English Cricket, alongside a number of online sources. I will of course mention Yorkshire's stance on the situation! Speaking of Yorkshire; they seem to be having a decent Twenty20 campaign for once.. maybe it will be they that beat Somerset in the final this year. Harrias talk 19:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the Ranji piece of the article, I'm quite interested in the reference for the following sentence: "Yet it is unlikely that he met the qualification rules in force at the time for appearing in the County Championship; this was hinted at by Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, but no protests were made." Do you have Wilde's Ranji. The Strange Genius of Ranjitsinhji, and if so, would you be able to shoot that page (54, and any around there with any discussion of this) over to me by email? Thanks, Harrias talk 14:53, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks regards the Wilde book! I've suggested to JH that further conversation might be best placed on the sandbox talk page to avoid too much confusion, as I suspect I might be coming back and forth for more input as I go along. I might move the current threads of conversation over there at some point. Harrias talk 22:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bernard Bosanquet (cricketer)

Learie

I will start on the Learie PR this weekend and we'll see how it goes. In return, I may ask you to review an article (not musical) which I have brewing; I'll keep you posted. Brianboulton (talk) 22:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Peer review/Sherlock (TV series)/archive1

Hello. I don't think I ever thanked you for your comprehensive peer review of Sherlock (TV series), and also your kind comments. I'm enacting you suggestions gradually, real life commitments allowing, and have nominated it at GAC. Many thanks again. The JPStalk to me 21:34, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Peach

Since I was the original creator of the article, you should be able to guess my opinion. :) As usual when CA and CI disagree, CricketArchive is correct. I've never seen him referred to as anything other than Alan. If you're planning on extending the article, then I'd be delighted. JH (talk page) 21:07, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I recognise that name of Miles Howell, but don't recall anything about him, though I'm sure I must have read about him a few times (in particular in the two histories of Surrey that I have). BTW, regarding Fender, presumably you'll be mentioning the reports for the press that he wrote - as also did Rockley Wilson - on the 1920-1 tour, which may well explain why he didn't play much more for England and never became captain. JH (talk page) 21:20, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a rare error by CA. Since Wilkinson was still club captain, it seems unlikely that he would play but not as captain, especially as he would hardly be worth a place considered just as a player. I found a little on Miles Howell in David Lemmon's "The History of Surrey County Cricket Club", on page 150: "Wilkinson had been unable to play regularly in 1919, nor in 1920 when, on top of his business commitments, a leg injury had kept him out of the side. The man originally marked down to succeed to the Surrey captaincy was Miles Howell, who had led Oxford University at both cricket and soccer and whose father and brother had both played for the County, but, as it transpired, he was unable to play with any regularity. Indeed, he played only 36 times for Surrey between 1919 and 1925, assisting the County, as Wisden noted, 'whenever they could get him, though it usually meant that some pro whom other counties would have welcomed with open arms had to stand down for him', After 1925, Howell played mainly for the Free Foresters." The Wisden writer strikes a surprisingly bolshie note for that period! Lemmon continues: "The inability of Howell to play had allowed the job of captaincy to fall on Fender - initially because he was the only amateur in the side but after Wilkinson's resignation because he had displayed such enterprise and imagination when he had led the side." Lemmon says that he was appointed the official captain when he was away on the tour of Australia. JH (talk page) 09:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fender

Will look tomorrow. Been Olympicking tonight at Wembley. Johnlp (talk) 23:35, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"In general, he withstood the hot weather better than his team-mates, but his weak leg made fielding painful on the hard ground. In all first-class games, he completed the double of 1,000 runs and 100 wickets for the first time. He scored 325 runs at 27.08 and took 32 wickets at 32.71..." That's gone awry! You've inserted the new material (including the bit about 53 catches) in a paragraph about the 1920-1 tour rather than in the correct place. JH (talk page) 09:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to Lemmon, he was Andrew Jeacocke rather than Alfred. Apparently he opened the innings in 1921 in the absence of Hobbs, did well and was an especially strong driver, as well as being a fine slip fielder. He was an amateur who had a residential qualification for Surrey. Lemmon says: "In 1922, however, his cricket came to an abrupt end after friction and controversy. Kent, or Lord Harris, had challenged his qualification for Surrey, saying that it was not valid. In fact, the house in which he lived was in Kent, but the other side of the road was in Surrey. For the last years of his career Jeacocke played mainly for Free Foresters." I've added him to my ever-lenthening "to do" list, as it's an interesting story. Lemmon doesn't seem to mention the match ehen only he and Fender were on time for the start of play. I think I've heard about it, but that may well have been from the Streeton book! JH (talk page) 20:35, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just looked up Jeacocke in the Wisden archive on Cricinfo. There's a short obituary (which contradicts Lemmon by saying that he played for Surrey until 1929). I also found him mentioned in this article by Andrew Sandham, in the context of a splendid anecdote about Fender. JH (talk page) 21:07, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Having looked up Jeacocke on CA, my faith in Lemmon is rather shaken! His first name does seem to have been Alfred, and it looks as if the question of his qualification must have come up in 1929 rather than 1922; after May 1929 he continued to play for Surrey but only in non-Championship matches such as against the universities. JH (talk page) 08:49, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"After the season, Fender joined a short tour of Jamaica led by Lord Tennyson, playing three first-class matches against the cricket team." Against which cricket team?! Assuming you mean against the Jamaica team then I suggest "against the island team" or something along those lines. JH (talk page) 08:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Among his favoured shots were the drive, pull and cut." That reads a bit funny, as it doesn't leave a lot - just the leg glance and the hook, which batsmen only rarely get the chance to play anyway. Oh, and the sweep I suppose. Most batsmen have a preference for either the front foot shots or the back foot shots, but it seems that Fender was proficient at both. JH (talk page) 21:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this little snippet might help - 'tis from To The Wicket page 94, by Dudley Carew (Chapman & Hall 3rd ed. 1950) discussing Fender he writes
"As a batsman he was a fast-footed hitter. He had height and reach and a belief in his eye, and many a ball which would have passed outside the off-stump found itself picked up and deposited over the ropes wide of long-on."
RossRSmith (talk) 13:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"From 1921, his form meant that he was chosen regularly for England..." "Regularly" seems to be overstating it. I would have thought that "occasionally" would be closer to the mark. "Fender himself did consider that these factors would have been held against him." That reads a little oddly. Should there perhaps be a "not" after "did"? JH (talk page) 08:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fender captaincy

In view of your exchange re CricketArchive's accuracy above, this may be relevant:

"Mr Fender was appointed captain from May up to the end of July, and at Mr. Wilkinson's request, as things were not going very well, he again took charge of the side in the closing matches." Wisden 1921, Chapter "Surrey Matches", Part II, Page 74. Johnlp (talk) 17:40, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. In David Lemmon's history of Surrey, concerning the match against Northamptonshire he writes that Fender knew that Wilkinshire intended to declare at tea, so slearly Lemmon thought that Wilkinson was the captain. In those days did Wisden indicate who the captain was in the individual scorcards? JH (talk page) 18:05, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No. Nor is there any indication in the reports on the individual matches. Johnlp (talk) 18:15, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My reading of Fender's bio by Streeton is that Wilkinson took over towards the end of the season but results were not great and Fender resumed control for the big matches at the end of the season. The Times does not indicate who was captain either, btw. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:27, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Fender... was now virtually in complete charge of the eleven, having quietly taken over from C. T. A. Wilkinson at the latter's request late in the season..." From "Plum Warner's Last Season (1920)", by Ronald Mason (Epworth Press, 1970). BTW, Wilkinson played in neither the preceding Surrey match at The Oval nor the final match of the season (the one at Lord's of which there is a detailed description in the Mason book) which followed the game at Northampton. Johnlp (talk) 18:37, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These were the two vital games I think; the last decided the championship, and the Oval game was against my lot; we were front runners as usual but, rather unfortunately, Fender won that one for Surrey. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fender bowling in 1921 Wisden

"Surrey's bowling depended in the main on Rushby, Hitch and Fender, G. M. Reay being an invaluable helper... Fender as a bowler was full of resource and, though often quite expensive, did a lot of first-class work. His break was as puzzling as ever, and he was quick to find out the weak points of the batsmen." Page 75, rest of ref as other quote from Wisden 1921 above.

Not much else on bowling: quite a bit on captaincy and the way he turned Surrey into a fine fielding side: "In one particular... Surrey cricket has never been better. The fielding, taking one day with another, was superb. Under Mr. Fender's inspiring leadership the side worked together like one man, their efforts being a constant delight to the crowds that gathered at the Oval. Strudwick kept wicket in his finest form all through the season, and Hitch, wherever he was placed but especially at short leg, Fender himself in the slips, Hobbs and Peach on the off-side, and Sandham in the deep field, were almost beyond praise." This is same ref but page 73.

Johnlp (talk) 19:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Constantine FAC

I shall be away from home until next Friday (17th) with limited computer access and of course, no library. I intend to check in from time to time but will not be able to do any extensive work on the FAC, should the need arise. Given the rate at which FACs are moving these days (I've just reviewed one that's been on the page since 29 June) that should not be a problem – though Heber came and went rather quickly – there'll be plenty of time for me to get involved a little later. Brianboulton (talk) 20:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Saga (comics)

Hi. Do you know how I can get someone to evaluate the quality of the Saga (comics) article? Nightscream (talk) 19:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice. I nominated it for Good Article, but if you're willing to take a look at it to address any areas where it could use improvement, please, by all means, do so. :-) Nightscream (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Peer Review?

Hi Sarastro, I was wondering if you'd be interested in/have time to do a peer review for me. I've gotten Ruth Norman up to GA and I think it's in decent shape, just under 3000 words. It's a pretty odd subject, about a nice old lady who led a UFO cult of sorts. No problem if you can't get to it though. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 04:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for all the feedback, your comments were a great help. I think I've taken care of them at this point. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Polly Umrigar

Hi, can you help me with this article. Regards! —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:35, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I want to expand the article and if everything goes well, I'll go for GAN. Do you have any books on him? —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Somerset County Cricket Club in 2009/archive3

Try three! As always, any input you might have would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully third time is a charm! Harrias talk 15:40, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request

Could I pester you to look over Andjar Asmara and give a copyedit/review? Mark Arsten said you're a really good reviewer. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:49, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm hoping to bring the article to FAC soon-ish. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you check to see if I addressed your comments to your satisfaction (yeah, sources are sadly rather light; Njoo Cheong Seng has even less readily accessible on him, and he was much more prolific). No need to copyedit again, I'll ask Mark. Also, do you have any articles that need review? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:55, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

request re-review of Paul Brown article

I do not believe it is a GA. I am requesting (is this even allowed?) a re-review of the Paul Brown article that gave a GA status based on my criticisms on the talk page. Best of luck, i think it's a pretty darn good article, though i wish the editor would strip footnotes from the intro ;) Have fun. 66.234.33.13 (talk) 02:36, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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