Talk:Clive Derby-Lewis

Quotation

You have deliberately misquoted Arthur Kemp, an known unreliable source by those more aware to the South African Right-wing situation than yourself. But he does state that the so-called hit-list was not proven to be an assassination list. He also states that it was on Mrs Derby-Lewis's computer (she edited the Citizen newspaper), and that she was cleared of any involvement. There is no mention anywhere that Derby-Lewis had anything whatsoever to do with this list. Also, you know as well as everyone else that to go before the ludicrously-named "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" asking for amnesty you had to confess to everything and show repentance. Had you been locked up for 6 years in a close gaol you'd be rather anxious to get out wouldn't you? I suspect that like him you'd say anything. You are deliberately trying to show Derby-Lewis in the worst possible light. Not every right-winger is a Nazi or a Fascist, you know.Robert I 10:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

"Not every right-winger is a Nazi or a Fascist, you know."

I'm sure they aren't all assassins either. Derby-Lewis, however, is one.

Walus said he and Derby-Lewis decided late in February or early March 1993 to kill Mr Hani. At the time, Derby-Lewis also handed him a hit list of "enemies of South Africa".

It contained the names of prominent ANC and SACP figures, including Mr Nelson Mandela, Mr Chris Hani and Mr Mac Maharaj.

"From the moment Clive handed me the list, I was under his instruction," Walus said.

"He held a high position in the Conservative Party and he had a military background. He was my superior."[1]

"Like every other applicant, Derby-Lewis and Walus had to convince the committee they had made a full disclosure about the events for which they claimed amnesty. As the committee's decision showed, however, the two failed hopelessly. For example, the committee was "wholly unconvinced" by the elaborate nonsense dreamed up to provide an innocuous explanation for what was obviously a hit list. Similarly, it had "no hesitation" in rejecting the Walus story that he had fitted a silencer to the murder weapon so he could sharpen up his target skills without disturbing his neighbours." "Derby-Lewis and Walus must now pay the price" Johannesburg Sunday Times 11 April 1999

Homey 13:36, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

• Walus was trying to save his skin. Some reports said he was unbalanced. You have not overturned what I stated above about Mrs.Derby-Lewis, her computer and 'the list', and the fact that she was eventually acquitted. Just because this gang of Reds sitting on the Commission state things like "obviously a hit list" does not make it factual, as the previous court hearing showed. But its good to see your re-editing, especially that elsewhere, done without a shred of conscience, decency, or balance. If the arbitrator cannot see your clear agenda then there is something drastically wrong. As for quoting the Johannesburg Sunday Times, words fail me. God knows wht you would rely upon without journalists twisted opinions. Robert I 14:03, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

There is much more evidence regarding the hit list than there is that the British were behind the assassination, as your initial version of the article would have suggested. I don't see any sources that seriously suggest the list wasn't a hit list, certainly nothing that provides an alternate explanation (perhaps Clive and his wife was just putting together his Christmas card list and it somehow got into the hands of the assassin, along with his gun?).Homey 16:42, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

In any case, what I wrote was that it was an "alleged" hit list so I don't see what your objection is. Perhaps you'd prefer it if it weren't mentioned at all as in your original version? As for your accusation that I "deliberately misquoted Arthur Kemp" that would be difficult to do as I didn't quote Kemp at all! Homey 17:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Sources

I think this is what the "Arthur Kemp" reference is about:

Mr Kemp was one of a number of far-right activists arrested after Hani's murder. He was later released without charge, but Clive Derby-Lewis, to whose wife Mr Kemp was said to have supplied a list of names and addresses, including Hani's, was one of two men sentenced to death. He was said to have organised the shooting.

The Polish-born Janusz Walus, who was convicted of shooting Hani, was found to have material drawn from Mr Kemp's list in his flat. Their death sentences were commuted to life imprisonment.

At the murder trial Mr Kemp admitted producing the list but denied having knowingly supplied a "hitlist".

(The Guardian, 10 June 2004) I'd say that referring to an "alleged" hit list is entirely appropriate, given this. If GLF wishes to mention Kemp's denial, that would be permissible as well.

I also see the Cape High Court confirmed the TRC's decision to reject their amnesty bids:

The judges said the TRC had correctly rejected the explanation and it amounted to their failure to fully disclose the facts.

Referring to a hit-list found Walus' possession the judges said it was unlikely that it had been innocently compiled as the pair claimed.

"The names on the list were numbered. Former president Mandela was number one, followed by the late Joe Slovo in second place. Hani was in the third place.

"Derby-Lewis and Walus explained the purpose of the numbering, and testified that Walus had numbered the names in accordance with Derby-Lewis' instructions in priority of their enmity towards the CP.

"Derby-Lewis had also explained that the numbering would serve as some kind of code reference to the person concerned for purposes of confidential telephonic conversations between Derby-Lewis and Walus."

The TRC had been correct in dismissing this explanation as false, the judges said.

(SAPA, 15 December 2000) CJCurrie 22:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Major Demonisation

We see here the most classic examples of maximum possible left-wing demonisation. Every imaginable source has been trawled in an attempt to list every detail and denigrate an individual whose major crime was to be "involved" in the assassination of the Secretary of a very active Communist Party who was also a known terrorist leader whose murderous groups had attacked and murdered countless farmers, their wives and children, as well as blacks who did not toe the ANC-communist line.

Your demonisation is shown clear by these facts. Let the readers of these pages decide where the greater evil lies. One thing is for certain. They will be under no illusion as to your very clear agenda. 213.122.37.171 11:32, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Assassination of Chris Hani

Given that the section in question is about Hani's assassination and not Derby-Lewis' "demise" (he's still very much alive though in storage) I do not see why our anonymous friend inists of reverting the section heading. Homey 17:41, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The London-based Patriot (South African Patriot in Exile) journal published a Special Edition (no.32, 1994) with front-page photo and a headline "Release Clive Derby-Lewis - Political Prisoner" and a centre-pages article on him.

Shouldn't we clarify the Patriot's ideology for this article? CJCurrie 20:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Aurthur Kemp, Conflict of interest

Mr Kemp seems to be editing the facts as they relate to his involvement with Mr Lewis. Wuhwuzdat (talk) 21:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

It is also worth mentioning that Kemp appears to be linking to his own book, he is making statements about himself and then citing a book he authored to back it up. The general consensus in the right-wing world is that Kemp is a snake who cooperated with the police to put send two men to prison for life. 21 September 2012

The Involvement of Nelson Mandela in the Chris Hani Assination

Why is it not articulated in the article how Nelson Mandela was involved, why is it only mentioned that he was involved but not written how? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.213.20.130 (talk) 11:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

What are you talking about? The article doesn't say that Mandela was involved. Zaian (talk) 09:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

It says Mandela was on a hitlist along with Hani. Maybe you misread it. Rd232 ^talk 09:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)