Talk:George Maharis

Arrest (2008)

Okay, based on WP:BLP, the references to Maharis being arrested need to be either sourced or removed. My preliminary Google search comes up with an eBay item, an old magazine (Gay Scene: Intellectual Homophile Monthly, Volume 5 #7, December 1974) that mentions the 1974 arrest. The eBay listing itself doesn't sound like a reliable source to me, but the magazine itself could probably be used. The eBay listing does have a picture of the article, so the article does exist. Whether that magazine is itself reliable is not something I'm qualified to judge. For now, I'm going to remove both arrests as unsourced. If someone has a good citation (e.g. has seen an actual article) and wants to put the info back in with proper attribution, that's fine with me. Frankly, this article was largely negative in tone in early edits, with lots of words about failures, arrests, and alleged misbehavior, and relatively few words about his accomplishments. I've tried to rectify this a bit, but I understand that the negatives can legitimately appear here - if well sourced. Karen | Talk | contribs 00:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• • I wondered what was going on with this biography. Maharis' arrest was quite well known in the gay community of the 1970s, so I'm not sure why it's become such an issue for some of you. I entered the aforementioned information, and referenced the QueerMusicHeritage.us webpage which has a scanned image of the magazine article (probably the same one mentioned above as being sold on Ebay). I don't see anything "largely negative" in the part that's shown on the site, but it could be a partial scan. This incident was as well known back then as the George Michael arrest more recently. It's not some urban myth being cooked up to slander the name of a mostly-forgotten actor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.172.104 (talk • contribs) 8 July, 2007

Hi. A bot reverted your edit, and I'm guessing that tinyurl.com is the reason; it may be on a list of problematic sources or something. To be honest, I haven't the expertise to evaluate the reliability of the sources provided, so I'm going to try to get some help figuring this out. The idea here isn't to whitewash the article or deny what happened, but to conform to WP:BLP and make sure any negatives are properly sourced and all that. I do stand by my earlier statement that at one time, the article almost completely ignored Maharis's career accomplishments (and his side of the story on his leaving Route 66), instead focusing almost exclusively on the "bad boy" aspects of his life. It's better now, and if the arrest information can be put back in in a careful and responsible way, it won't unbalance the article at this point. --Karen | Talk | contribs 08:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:BLP sasy that extraordinary claims which extraordinary sources. Gay Scene (NYC) appears to be a tabloid-style magazine, a type not known for reliability. Further, since the subject was not convicted of the initial arrest charge, it appears to have even less value. If this was mentioned in a better source, then it would be usable. On the while, this is a bit like reporting drunk driving charges or other misdemeanors. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

If memory serves, all links to tinyurl.com are blacklisted. A visual scan of an article from a publication whose track record is unknown to us shouldn't be accepted for a claim that would be considered negative under BLP. EdJohnston 20:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I well remember Maharis was arrested. The arrest pretty much outed him as gay. From what I have read, he was arrested not once but twice involving alleged sexual misconduct, the first time in 1967, and the second time in 1974, according to NNDB. The arrests should be included in his bio.--2 March 2008 Susan Nunes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.228.60.145 (talk) 16:57, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It's been in there for a while now. Someone found usable sources for both incidents. --Karen | Talk | contribs 21:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Can reliable sources be added to the arrest section. Is this materal even worthy of inclusion? --68.9.119.69 (talk) 04:49, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

I have no problem with this material being omitted under WP:BLP, for all the reasons given. Karen | Talk | contribs 01:55, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Toupee

I just reverted the following addition:

It is not widely discussed, but Maharis has worn a toupee from the days of Route 66.

Under the WP:BLP guidelines, this sort of thing probably should not be added without a reliable source. If you can find a news article or published interview that mentions this, please provide the citation. To be honest, I find it a bit dubious. -- Karen | Talk | contribs 21:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Article has been mentioned at the BLPN board

This article has been mentioned on the WP:BLPN board. --68.9.119.69 (talk) 04:53, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Arrest

A reliable source has been located and the info posted, with proper references. Associated Press ran at least two wire stories about Maharis's arrest, one about the arrest itself and a follow-up recounting his posting bail. These reports were published widely in American newspapers and can be accessed easily on Newspaper Archive or Google News, in which the pages of the newspapers have been fully scanned. The arrest was also documented in two articles in The Advocate at the time. Given the sources and the wide dissemination of the incident at the time, I see no reason why it should not be included in the article.Kitchawan (talk) 16:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, I don't know. I have removed the info because someone said that it is a titillating trivia and that, regardless of source, defaming him won't justify inclusion. Lately, there have been no interviews from the press. --George Ho (talk) 17:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Go to one page and another page, so you'll get the idea. --George Ho (talk) 17:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

The charge ended up as "no contest" to "trespassing" and I agree that it need not be in the BLP, though I removed the prurient bits in any case. Collect (talk) 20:38, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, Maharis made a private interview with one of Wikipedian editors in the past about his past crimes and sexuality. However, he omitted these things to the public press, so I'm afraid the only reliable source is an official source by Maharis himself, like an autobiography. --George Ho (talk) 21:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

With all due respect, a person gets arrested, for whatever crime. That arrest is published in national newspapers, via Associated Press, with verification by the relevant police department and followed up, once more by AP, and published in national newspapers. How are these reports not considered reliable sources?Kitchawan (talk) 22:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Another question, George Ho, ie "the only reliable source is an official source by Maraharis himself, like an autobiography." What about a biography, in which the relevant documents are examined, sourced, and otherwise discussed? Would this still be out of bounds? Or is Mr Maharis receiving a special privilege from Wikipedia that is not extended to other subjects?Kitchawan (talk) 22:04, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

There is no biography about him. (One Wikipedia editor tried it long ago, but it became halted.) I'm still unsure about re-adding it, but I have recently made notifications about it. --George Ho (talk) 22:35, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Please note that I am not trying to be difficult but merely to have this situation explained clearly and fully. From one article to the next, Wiki's editors and administrators can be inconsistent in applying/interpreting the rules.Kitchawan (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

One person has replied about such content, so it will be watched for a few days. --George Ho (talk) 04:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Kitchawan, I don't doubt your good-faith efforts here, and I appreciate that you found this sourced in AP (what could be a more reliable source, right?), but my interpretation of the situation is that simply stating the charge (as it was phrased) constitutes a titillation. While the arrest is documented in a reliable source, the phrasing of the charges tells us just enough for readers to interpret that as whatever sort of "perversion" they can imagine. I think this fails WP:BLPGOSSIP (whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject. Be wary of sources that use weasel words and that attribute material to anonymous sources.), and then there is the problem of presumption of innocence in the absence of a reliably sourced conviction, per WP:BLPCRIME. If the arrest itself was the subject of a notable and widespread controversy (like the Henry Louis Gates arrest controversy) then the charges are relevant and explained in a context that clearly conveys that the arrest itself was controversial, but I don't see that here. There may be a way of including the arrest and charges if that was the case and reliable secondary sources show that the arrest itself was controversial, but otherwise, if the charges were dropped, it probably fails WP:DUE and WP:BLPCRIME. Thank you for your work in finding a source, even though I disagree that the source's content is appropriate for inclusion here. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 05:06, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Arrest - what is the issue?

I'm going through the discussions here and there seems to be disagreement as to whether or not it is appropriate to include a paragraph about this person's arrest back in the 70s. An IP user came to WP:BLP/N asking for guidance about this, and I replied that I didn't see a problem with adding it, so long as it didn't violate WP:UNDUE and was worded neutrally. Now I see the addition has been reverted. I'm trying to understand the rationale for this. Whether he was convicted or not, the issue is the arrest itself. As far as I can see there are plenty of newspaper sources that repeat the same AP story. What is non-reliable about AP? What was inappropriate about the wording that I suggested to the IP? §FreeRangeFrog^croak 00:27, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

George Maharis didn't make public about his own arrest. Even reliable sources don't make information well-justified to be included. It's just a low-profile arrest, that's all. You haven't seen past discussions here. --George Ho (talk) 00:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but maybe I'm not understanding this. What does the user being 'public' about his arrest have to do with anything? And no, I've not seen past discussions here, but it doesn't really matter - I don't see a problem with this being included in the bio, and I'm trying to understand why you do not. Preferably, use some kind of policy or guideline-based rationalization. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 00:47, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:BLPGOSSIP and WP:BLPCRIME, I hope. --George Ho (talk) 00:49, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, this past discussion could help. --George Ho (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The Associated Press is not a tabloid or a purveyor of gossip, and the person's arrest on specific charges and subsequent plea deal are a matter of public record, so neither of those apply here. The response you received at BLP/N is correct - but only as far as how that source worded the event. That is precisely why I recommended a specific wording to the IP, keeping in mind that things were much different in 1974. There is a difference between maintaining a balance in a BLP and simply omitting information because you don't like it. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 01:03, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I hope that Collect's edit does better, so I reverted it back to Collect's version. --George Ho (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I've removed it entirely. An arrest in 1974 and guilty plea for "trespassing" is not worthy of inclusion in the section entitled "Later career", and probably not anywhere else in the article unless the biographical part of this BLP is significantly fleshed out. This is giving undue weight to what amounted to a minor incident. As far as I can tell, the only reason for including it is to hint at Maharis' sexuality. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:58, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Are other arrests also banned? For example, the DUI or drug arrests of celebrities? I don't see that. This seems to be banned because it is considered more "distasteful" than those, when it is of equal significance in the celebrity's life. Pee Wee Herman's entry has an entire section on his arrest for exactly the same reason! 50.75.234.202 (talk) 16:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)