User talk:Sovetus

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Hello, Sovetus! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking

if shown; this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Jojhutton (talk) 02:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Wikipedia:Manual of Style. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:56, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring at Wikipedia:Manual of style

Since you've left a 3RR warning for User:Edokter you must be familiar with our policy on edit warring. You are now at four reverts on Wikipedia:Manual of Style while nobody else has gone past the limit. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 13:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've only made two reverts. I also made the first edit, then a second edit, which was not a revert, as it had different content. Also, I had left the warning for a different user. Please go to the talk page of the page that is being edited to discuss your opinion on the changes, I'd like some more people to discuss it, as I believe that if consensus is againt me, then there will be a right for you to revert my edit. No, thank you. Sovetus (talk) 13:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Identity change

Can you explain the difference between the original rule and your new version of the rule about how to refer to transgender people with pronouns at WP:MOS?? Please clarify by giving an example of someone who is a she according to the rule before you changed it but a he after the rule?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The new rule ignore's people's personal choice of gender, unless they also changed their gender biologically and/or legally. So if I have an article, and proclaim I am now of the opposite gender, and call myself "Queen Awesome", it might have a section explaining my choice, but the name of the article, and pronouns would not be changed. I am confused as to why you need a specific example. Sovetus (talk) 13:11, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You mean, a trans woman whose body hasn't yet been fixed with surgery should be treated like a cisgender man on Wikipedia according to the new rule?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:18, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean that a man decided to change to a woman, then yes, if that man has reproductive parts of a man, and is legally recognized as a man, Wikipedia should use male pronouns. However there it should be noted that the man identifies as a woman. If legally or biologically, the man does complete his wish of being like a woman, Wikipedia could then also change the article from saying he to she. It doesn't imply being disrespectful to transgender people, it's just using science and facts like a neutral, objective source is supposed to. Sovetus (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you realize trans women are women trapped in men's bodies?? You're implying that they're not. You're implying that they actually were men before their bodies are changed with surgery. Georgia guy (talk) 13:31, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a scientific statement (trans women are women trapped in men's bodies) as it implies the existance of a soul beyond the body. If you're born with male reproductive parts, you're a man. Same as if you're born a human, you cannot be a dog just because you think like one. That's the definition of "man". If the definition was only based on what you think you are, then what do you call people with male reproductive parts regardless of what they think? Also, it would mean that the whole point of gender is void. If I could change to being called she tomorrow, without changing my body, what is the point of even using he or she? Sovetus (talk) 13:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You mean, Christine Jorgensen is not a woman at all?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

She is a woman. She had the surgery.Sovetus (talk) 13:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]