Talk:List of X-Men members

Hellions?

Shouldn't the original and King Bedlam Hellions be under "Enemies"?

Missing Villains

One of the first things I noticed was... where's Omega Red in all this? After noticing that, it's got me to thinking as to who else might not be there. Is there any more then?

Mirage

In point of fact, she was active as an X-Man in more than one mission. She appears on a mission in X-Men: Black Sun scouting the home of Dr. Strange in Greenwich Village for occult activity for Jean.

Jean Grey

As stated in Phoenix Force Handbook, Jean Grey is dead. 200.164.174.243 (talk)Rainha Branca

New Additions

• i want to say we should include new additions in separate subsection like x-force strike team and uncanny x-force because x-force strike team was officially x-men team but uncanny x-force was wolverine's separate team and not included x-men(like deadpool,fantomex) and also wolverine's x-force is coming to end as part of marvel now! and then there will be a new pslocke's x-force team which we dont know yet whether will be a part of x-men or not.and as cable and x-force is coming in marvel now! so what's ur idea that it should continue cable's team section coz we know its also splinter team as cable is on run against uncanny avengers.
• . and i think there should be x-statix members section in splinter teams coz it was also a major splinter x-team.
• and x-factor portion is already divided into section i'm just giving it a more clearer view by slightly changing it.
• there is also a confusion sorrounding X-Treme X-Men coz it is written in this article that x-treme was storm's splinter team so then why have x-treme x-members been listed in official x-men members.shouldn't we create another splinter section for storm's x-treme team?? and also x-treme x-men vol. 2 is also featuring a splinter team of alternate realities mutants so we can also add them in also.
• wolverine and the x-men feature many new students like Broo,kid gladiator,genesis (apocalypse) so why are they not listed as x-men in training or students.

--Shoxee1214 (talk) 12:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

What approach do the secondary sources take for each of these cases? Morwen (Talk) 13:26, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

• Uncanny X-Force was still considered the same thing as the strike team Cyclops put together because while Scott wanted to end it, Logan picked it right back up with the same directive. We'll have to see what Psylocke's team does but it's likely it will be along the same lines. Cable's team also seem to be similar to his old one, so it would make more sense to do a new subsection within the current Cable led X-Force section.
• X-Statix is completely different from anything else on this list. They were a group who were using their powers to seek celebrity status, not to defend mutant rights or Xavier's dream or anything good like that. They're also already mentioned in the Ancillary teams section due to how little they have in common with the X-Men.
• X-Factor did not need that separation. That's what the gray boxes that separate the subsections is for.
• Where in this article does it mention that Storm's X-treme squad was a splinter group? Because everything I've seen has considered that team to be full members, hence why members like Lifeguard and Slipstream, who joined in that series, are on the main list. The vol 2 team would fit under the Alternate Reality team section toward the bottom of the page.
• Those characters aren't on there as they just likely haven't been added by anyone yet. 68.33.140.207 (talk) 14:32, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

you can see in "Genoshan Assault X-Men (2001)" wriiten "Magneto decides to strike after the Legacy Virus is cured. After losing many members when Storm started her splinter group X-Treme X-Men and Professor X was captured by Magneto, Jean Grey recruits a temporary team in Uncanny X-Men #392 (2001) in order to rescue Professor X." . so what now? was that x-treme x-men a splinter team or not? and by the way if you have read that book then you can see clearly that storm is running her own team away from the main x-men.--Shoxee1214 (talk) 15:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

and also why "xavier institute students" are listed in splinter section because it included "new x-men" and "young x-men" and those both junior teams were related to main x-men . infact they were their students then why have you put that whole "xavier institute students" in splinter section instead of substitute?--Shoxee1214 (talk) 15:33, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

So, what secondary sources state is not something you think should be informing this article at all? I've added a new section below regarding this, and I would appreciate your input. Morwen (Talk) 15:48, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Shoxee1214: Feel free to remove the phrase "splinter group" in regards to Storm's X-Men team in the description of the Genoshan Assault X-Men section if you think it's confusing. Storm is a long-term X-Men leader, and her X-Men team that starred in the first volume of X-Treme X-Men has been treated as an official, full-fledged X-Men team, both in the comics themselves and in Marvel's handbooks, just like the blue and gold teams were in the past, etc. And the New X-Men and Young X-Men are listed in the splinter section under "Xavier Institute Students" because they were originally interpreted to be just students and not official X-Men. However, Marvel made clear in its handbooks that they're an official subsection of the X-Men, which is why the X-Men-In-Training section was added to the official X-Men section at the top of the list. I would assume that the individual New X-Men and Young X-Men lists haven't been removed from the splinter section because no one has felt strongly enough that they needed to be removed, or out of respect to the amount of work put into those sections, or both. However, they are redundant and could be removed.

Morwen: I would imagine that everyone would be happy to add information to this list based on other secondary sources, but I don't imagine there are a lot of secondary sources our there discussing the nitpicky details of X-Men membership. I could be wrong, but if so, you'll have to point us in the right direction. And since its inception, the mandate of Marvel's series of handbooks has included, in addition to being a secondary source compiling information from Marvel's comics, the addition of new, primary-source information to fill in some of the gaps. DeadpoolRP (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

If there aren't "a lot of secondary sources out there", then that raises questions as to why we even have this list. This article needs a lot of work to be compliant with WP:WAF and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists. I'd absolutely rather see that done, but debating about how to properly interpret the primary sources is not the way to do that, and completely misses the point. As I say, the Official Handbook barely counts as a secondary source, but it's certainly not an independent one. Also, generally in policy it's the responsibility for someone arguing for information to be kept or added to source it adequately. It's not my job to "point [you] in the right direction here. Morwen (Talk) 16:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I interpreted your below call to discuss secondary sources as meaning that you wanted to collaboratively discuss secondary sources to help improve the article, hence my "point us in the right direction" comment. If I misinterpreted that, I apologize. At this point I'm not even sure if you want to improve the page or get rid of it, because you seem to be saying both. (And I'll never understand the antagonism some people have towards Marvel's handbooks.) DeadpoolRP (talk) 17:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd love to discuss potential secondary sources. But I can't find any. Clearly there are people here who are more knowledgeable about the X-Men than me, so I'm probably missing something. I seem to be saying both because I am saying both: if this article cannot be substantially improved, I would find it very hard to defend. Morwen (Talk) 17:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

68.33.142.75, you claim, "if you're going to undo the edits, then explain yourself next time". You didn't do that whatsoever when you deleted the new additons to Uncanny X-Force (Storm, Puck, Cluster, & Spiral). If that's not hypocritical I don't know what is, and no, I don't think everyone is out to "get me" as you claim, but you insist on consistency or reasons for edits when it's clear your standards don't apply to yourself. Practice what you preach and then it might be possible to have a constructive conversation, until then don't suggest I have meltdowns as though "someone punched my mother". Completely inappropriate, and yes, you do have a "tone". So then, why did you delete the additions? Tomahawk1221 (talk) 04:54, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Wondering why Tempus hasn't been added to the main list? I'm unaware of a codename for her new counterpart, christopher, but aren't these two new official x-men on cyclop's current squad? Secondly, it's now April, havn't Cluster, Puck, & Spiral officially joined Psylocke's X-Force squad? It just seems like these additions would reflect the latest rosters.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.69.254 (talk) 04:02, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Tempus and the others are technically students under this New Xavier School that Cyclops has started up. I'm working on something to update the students section. And no, those three have not joined the X-Force squad yet. Heck, Cluster hasn't even interacted with Psylocke and the others yet. Puck is working with them, but they haven't formed a team yet, and Spiral is still at odds with them too. 68.33.142.75 (talk) 00:27, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

So it's August now, and Uncanny X-Force still isn't a team, let alone not having puck, cluster, and spiral as members yet? They've only been soliciting those 5 characters on the covers now for 9 months... Admittedly I'm not reading that book, but it seems like a long backstory to eventually form a team..24.9.69.254 (talk) 05:41, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

If someone could discuss above about Uncanny X-Force question. Also, is Hope a part of the Cable & X-Force squad presently? Soliciations for November's Amazing X-Men indicate that Firestar will be an official X-Man, any other insights to near future additions or speculations?24.9.69.254 (talk) 22:20, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

No, they haven't joined. Only Psylocke and Storm are officially on still. Puck is working with them, but still hasn't fully joined them as even those two seem iffy about him being around. Spiral has taken off after initially fighting with the group, so she hasn't joined either. And the Fantomex trio have been off doing their own thing and pulling Psylocke into their drama without any of them joining either. So yes, I agree, it is a ridiculously long team formation story. And no, Hope hasn't joined Cable's group either, in fact he outright forbid it. With the way the story is developing though it could change, but she's not there yet. And Firestar will be joining, but we dont' put her up until she does. 68.33.142.75 (talk) 22:55, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I know, hence the talk page 24.9.69.254 (talk) 23:34, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

So in addition to Firestar being a full-fledged member (X-Men), starting in X-Men vol. 4 #7, M (Monet) will be as well. As discussed, I'm not reading uncanny x-force, but it seems like this page needs to be updated with the additions of Puck, Spiral, Cluster, and now even Bishop. The only input into this was some long, drawn out explanation that these characters are off doing their own thing and there's no cohesive team dynamic whatsoever. All solicitations seem to the contrary so I'd like other input or explanation as to why this is a title of loosely associated characters and not a team... Lastly, can someone list the characters (actual codenames too) of these 'future x-men' (ice-beast, future deadpool, etc..) along with even further cast of future x-men in new soliciations (newer versions of cloak, black panther, iron man looking guy, phoenix type, ice wizard, etc?)? (thanks!)24.9.69.254 (talk) 06:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

For instance, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Force on the right side under agents/current members of "cable team" and "uncanny team". I did not do those edits and someone has reflected those titles of the members there, so why not reflect this on the main list?24.9.69.254 (talk) 06:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

The bottom line is that we shouldn't add characters to the list based on solicits for upcoming comics, covers, speculation, etc. Until someone actually joins a team in the comics themselves, they aren't supposed to get added to the list. We also don't make changes to Wikipedia based on changes made to other Wikipedia pages, because Wikipedia's not a source for Wikipedia changes. If you've read these comics and the team has officially been formed and everyone has joined, then add them. But you've said you haven't read the series, and I haven't read the series yet, so that means that we have no place adding characters to the list. Let someone who actually knows what they're talking about make the changes. Also, there have been so many future and alternate-reality iterations of the X-Men that they have no place on this list unless they actually join a Earth-616 team. DeadpoolRP (talk) 03:26, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Once again, hence the talk page...I started a discussion in the proper forum so please don't suggest otherwise. Secondly, I wasn't proposing adding those 'future x-men' to any list nor did I claim I was going to, I was merely asking what their names were...24.9.69.254 (talk) 04:42, 8 October 2013 (UTC) I used the word "list" above but I didn't really mean to add them (future x-men) to the main page, so if anyone has insight as to who these characters are just chime in here.24.9.69.254 (talk) 00:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

There have been a lot of questions about the various new students that have popped up ever since Wolverine and the X-Men started, so I've put together a tentative edit for the X-Men in Training section here; [1]. I'll be putting this up later tonight if there are no objections. 68.33.142.75 (talk) 17:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I guess this is a better place to list these questions: (1.) How should the time-displaced original X-Men be addressed on this list? (2.) Shouldn't the X-Men-in-Training list be strictly chronological like every other list on this page? That would mean that the Stepfords, for example, should be on BOTH school lists because they've gone to BOTH schools, not just the current school they're going to. They just wouldn't be in bold on the Jean Grey school list. DeadpoolRP (talk) 07:24, 13 June 2013 (UTC)