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Talk:2008 K2 disaster

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Iain99 (talk | contribs) at 16:55, 17 March 2014 (Reverted edits by 71.60.58.204 (talk) to last version by Fylbecatulous). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

What happened?

The article starts out claiming people died in an avalanche. Then it describes one serac falling and cutting the fixed lines, and people dying trying to bypass the cut. Then there's a table of deaths, where a second, third and fourth serac are mentioned. If anyone has any decent sources, please go ahead and clear it up a bit. 95.209.1.28 (talk) 22:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, really, with several books available, one would think that there would be someone who could contribute to the article with content requested above. More than a year has passed, and no one who knows is willing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.254.82.183 (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Map done

Pinched from K2 article. Neıl ☄ 14:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

Whats the point of this page on Wikipedia. Shouldn't it be better on WikiNews. And Wikipedia is not a memorial site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by StewieGriffin! (talk • contribs) 17:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, because it will cease being news soon, and will pass into merely being a historical event. I like to learn about historical events from wikipedia, and it's not like this is wasting paper, you know? 151.190.254.108 (talk) 20:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A double digit death on a mountain is a notable event especially when it occurs on the second highest mountain in the world.--Revth (talk) 05:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

bottleneck

Could the word bottleneck in the fatalities section link to some definition of it. The bottleneck disambiguation doesnt have mountaineering. Lihaas (talk) 03:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, Bottleneck is not a mountaineering term, but simply a name given by mountaineers to a specific part of the route: a deep gorge overhung by blocks of ice. There is a link to Bottleneck (K2) further up in the article. DES (talk) 13:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct - it's so called because it's where the snow field narrows to a well defined gully. There's a picture of it here which gives a good impression of the sheer size of the overhanging seracs. Oh, for a free version. Iain99Balderdash and piffle 14:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Panic

The sentence "There were still ten climbers above the Bottleneck, and panic broke out among them." doesn't appear to be supported by a reference (the panic bit - that is). Given the sort of climbing credentials one presumably requires for K2, I would be surprised if it attracted the sort of person that was easily given to panic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkTB (talk • contribs) 05:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'm convinced - thanks for adding that ref Far Canal (talk) 02:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Depends on the situation. Try remaining calm when you know you're going to die alone on a remote mountain in an obscure part of the world with your body never being recovered. No amount of experience could prepare a climber for finding themselves in that situation. --Candlewicke Consortiums Limited 13:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing

This article is hard to follow. Pretend you know nothing of the story, and try to read through it without getting confused.

"Camp IV also tried to send a group upwards, and they found Marco, who had managed to descend the Bottleneck and was lying unconscious in the snow. They returned to Camp IV." They who returned to Camp IV? I guess they is the rescuers - did they bring Marco along, or leave him where he lay?

The article says this of Gerard McDonnell: "Gerard started toward the Chinese side of the mountain" "Refused to descend because he was helping the others that were injured" Those two statements seem inconsistent with each other. And is Wikipedia on a first name basis with the late McDonnell? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.38.180 (talk) 11:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The main reason is: We don't know.
Currently, we have only very scetchy picture about what happened on the mountain, based on the published interviews of persons, injured, exhausted and suffered cold and thin air several days. Most of the uninjured climbers had not yet come back to "civilization" from the base camp, and only short blog entries and phone interviews from some of them are available.
The fate of Gerard belongs to the same category, as there has been three different theories what had happened to him. But we hope to get more information from the oncoming weeks, when more thorought interviews are published and injured persons recover. --Whiskey (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't feel qualified to edit, but I think you might find this helpful:

"In the early hours of 1 August, the first group of climbers and high-altitude porters – the Pakistani equivalent of Sherpas, but without the history or culture of climbing – start out to lay the fixed ropes. Among this first group are Korean climbers, who apparently insist on laying out the fixed rope earlier than had been planned."

That puts things in a completely different light - time needed to be spent fixing the ropes AGAIN b/c the Koreans insisted on laying it out early, which meant they ran out of rope and the Bottleneck took an extra SEVEN hours to traverse, and so climbers summitted mid-late afternoon/evening, which would be notoriously dangerous.

Anyway, the link is here[1]. Ravenwolf68 (talk) 10:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)ravenwolf68[reply]

Here's another good article written by a knowledgeable journalist with a bit of distance and perspective, which is likely to be more accurate than the immediate news coverage. If anyone would like to rework the article based on it please do, otherwise I might have a go when I've finished one or two other things on my to do list. Iain99Balderdash and piffle 11:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Text removed over BLP concern

I have removed text from the article which amounts to a devastating criticism of one of the climbers involved in this incident. The text and indeed the article on the climbing website k2climb.net on which it was based amount to character assasination giving the impression of a self-aggrandizing charlatan who unscrupulously exploits this disaster to promote himself as a hero. Wikipedia's requirements for sourcing of potentially damaging information concerning living persons constitute a pillar among WP policies, and in a case such as the present one, significantly better sources would have to support the inclusion of the removed text than an unsigned article on a climbers' website written shortly after the disaster had taken place. If such sources can be presented I suggest that their applicability and the wording of the text is discussed here on the talk page prior to amending the article. __meco (talk) 19:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The same accusations, based on the same single source, have been removed from the article on the climber in question. It should be noted that k2climb.net, mounteverest.net and explorersweb.com all carry the same article and are all owned by ExplorersWeb Inc. __meco (talk) 08:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

I've renamed this page so that it tallies with 1986 K2 disaster and 1996 Everest disaster. Ericoides (talk) 09:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Italian book

I notice that the newly written Italian Wikipedia article is sourced with a 2009 book about the disaster. That article (and indeed the book) will probably include valuable information which can be used in the present article. __meco (talk) 13:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a section of causes for the incident

I'm not sure if it's necessary, but it might be appropriate to make a section listing and analyzing the specific reasons for the catastrophe, such as violations of established climbing doctrines and guidelines, mistakes, natural events, etc. I think this would wrap up the article well. I don't think it should necessarily be meant to criticize the climbers specifically, but it might help clarify the article by answering more concisely why this expedition went so wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.55.18 (talk) 13:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gloves

"Wilco van Rooijen handed Jumik Bhote his gloves, but was unable to help them any more." In the film The Summit -- admittedly not an unimpeachable source, but it is van Rooijen himself saying this -- van Rooijen says that he had a spare pair of gloves that he gave to Jumik Bhote. Probably should be clarified, since there is an enormous difference between the nearly insane self-sacrifice of handing off your only gloves in those circumstances and the magnanimous human act van Rooijen describes himself performing. - Jmabel | Talk 16:36, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I changed the wording to say: handed Jumik Bhote his spare pair of gloves. I have it in two books that this was what took place, so I cited one. None of these sources are unimpeachable, of course. What we need, of course, is a Zapruder film. ツ Thanks Fylbecatulous talk 17:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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