Jump to content

User talk:Greensodagal

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Greensodagal (talk | contribs) at 23:20, 9 May 2014 (Added response). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

User talk:GreensodagalGreensodagal (talk) 21:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Separate Article Class

March 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to California Chrome may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 20:40, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

April 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to California Chrome may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "<>"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
  • 25 March 2014}}</ref> Chrome also won the 2014 [[California Cup Derby]] by 5 1/2&nbsp;lengths).<ref name="Daily Racing Form">{{cite web|last=Jay Privman|title=Sant Anita: California Chrome
  • by [[Per Antonsen]] and trained in southern California by [[Art Sherman]]<ref> name="Harris Farms">{{cite web|last=Staff|title=team-members|url=http://www.harrisfarms.com/index.php/team-members|

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 03:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Updating article

Hi Greensodagal. I wanted to give you a heads up that myself and some of the other people from WP:Horse racing are going to expand and improve California Chrome. My hope is that, if we all work together, it can be of Good article quality by the Kentucky Derby - will be a push to get it that good that quick, but I'm optimistic. Feel free to ask us any questions about what we are doing and help as you can. By the way, if you can find us a source for the claim that CC would be the first California-bred to win the Derby since 1962, put the URL on the talk page or in the article. Montanabw(talk) 23:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

Just dropping you a quick note that I did quite a bit of work on California Chrome. If you want to drop me a message at the article's talk page or to me directly at User talk:Montanabw and let me know if there are further improvements I can make to the article, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Montanabw(talk) 23:19, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for California Chrome

The DYK project (nominate) 02:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Article improvement discussion?

Hi, saw your critique of California Chrome with your edit comments here. Given that this article is apt to be fairly high-profile soon, I'd like to be sure that any inaccuracies are addressed, so if you'd like to comment about problems with the article here, I'll watch this page and try to get back to you as soon as I can. (Or you can post at Talk:California Chrome and more people may see your comments there).

Be aware though, that wikipedia has its own rules and the big one is that everything an article contains needs to be sourced to outside, reliable, third-party sources—Wikipedia has a policy on "original research" and firsthand knowledge that often is very frustrating to people who have personal knowledge of a situation. (See also WP:RS and WP:V) In this case, it means wikipedia sources will mostly be newspaper articles and the like. If sources are "questionable"; please clarify, as they include the Blood-Horse, Daily Racing Form and the Los Angeles Times, among others. If the press gets it wrong (and we all know this happens at times) all we can do is try to find a better source. Montanabw(talk) 05:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I'd be glad to help do up an article on Lucky Pulpit - though it might not be right away - if I can figure out how he meets wikipedia's WP:NOTABILITY standard. The Harris farms web site does provide some useful data to start from, but the problem is that WikiProject Horse racing has a standard that we like to see Grade I wins - or a horse siring multiple grade I winners - to deem the animal notable enough to create an article. It looks like his other major winner so far besides California Chrome is Rousing Sermon? Montanabw(talk) 05:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please work together on this

Hi - I am noticing your changes. Please work with me on this - we need reliable sources for these changes so they can be verified by other people. Some of the material is a style issue -- this is an encyclopedia, not a public relations blurb and we have to use neutral language and a certain (often rather dull) writing style. Montanabw(talk) 05:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I used this Sacramento Bee article for a lot of the background info; if it is inaccurate, say so... http://www.sacbee.com/2014/04/04/6297239/local-horse-california-chrome.html Montanabw(talk) 06:00, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am comparing your changes [1] to the article and will try to help you incorporate them back in where possible. But be aware that we can't keep in anything that's not verifiable by an outside source... such as the graphic designer of the logo, the epiglottal problem with Love the Chase, or the details of the Coburns' employment. This is actually due to wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons (and horses!) Montanabw(talk) 06:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To help you out: We can insert hidden text into wikipedia articles, I did so in several spots to "park" your information until it can be sourced from third party sources. Just open the edit window and look for anything that looks like this: <!--hidden text here--> it's a good way to point out minor errors or to highlight a small-scale change. Montanabw(talk) 06:34, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All for now

I'm calling it a night. I will make my best effort to continue to incorporate the things you are trying to add, and I will look for more sources (I have about 10 "parked" at Talk:California Chrome that I haven't used yet) but the #1 problem will be sourcing the ownership percentages - So far I've looked at the Jockey Club site, Equibase, reviewed the news articles in the footnotes, and nowhere have I found a third party source that says that the Martins have a majority interest and the Coburns have a minority interest. I trust that you know this to be true, and I'd love to keep that detail in, as it is relevant, but without a source to footnote, we can't "prove" it to an outside reader and WP:BLP says we probably need to do so ... if you know of a news article that mentions it, or a web site or ANYTHING, please note it here or into the article. Thanks! Montanabw(talk) 07:50, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Response

I was at the news conference after the Santa Anita Derby. Alan Sherman and Victor Espinoza were focused on California Chrome. Many of the people in the press area were not actually press. They were individuals pushing their names and emails on to these owners just sell them photos, trinkets and to get permission to write books. The lack of security is alarming. The press wanted an everyman story when in fact a horse like this is never really a fluke but the result of someone's careful planning and hard work. Steven Coburn was very excited and did not allow Mr. Martin to speak. Coburn was wrapped up in being the center of attention and was manipulated into selling Lucky Pulpit/Harris farms stud slots rather than protecting California Chrome, the mare and the full siblings. As questions arose regarding management or money Mr. Coburn could not answer and looked to Mr. Martin for responses. Mrs. Coburn revealed their ownership share is 30%. Not a small percentage but Mr. Coburn is obviously not a controlling partner and not in a position to sell more than his 30%. I hope he appreciates Mr. Martin's generosity and the freedom to have some fun.

I suspect a lot of the drama will be corrected in the coming weeks and months as Mr. Martin is given the space to tell his story. Those third party cites will come along. Media information is often incorrect and copied from pub to pub. For example, Love the Chase had only two trainers. Mr. Gilchrist and Monty Meier. Mr. Martin disengaged himself from Mr. Meier for lack of competence. He regrets not having done so sooner but waited for some improvement out of respect for his friendship with Mr. Coburn. I've seen six or seven corrections regarding California Chrome in the span of this week alone. Did you know that Perry Martin wrote the Failure Analysis Handbook some years ago? He is focused on the horse's story rather than his.

I am looking forward to the next press meeting as this story unfolds.

Good luck with the article.

Nothing like being misunderstood by the press! Thanks for the clarification and please continue to keep an eye on things. Also, as the story unfolds, DO post the URL links to any articles that will help! I recently found an audio interview with Alan Sherman (here) that I haven't yet listened to, but that will probably be my next source to review. I will see if I can find a link to video of the full SA Derby press conference, as that would be a reliable source we can use! I noted that even NBC Sports broadcasters commented on the mob scene in the winners' circle—I have empathy for everyone directly involved, it's going to be an absolute zoo for the next two months. Montanabw(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As for the trainers for Love the Chase, I got that list of five people off of the Equibase charts, which had different names on almost every race she ran, but no problem just chopping that bit, as it's not terribly relevant to California Chrome anyway, other than to help people understand why a good mare only won one race. Montanabw(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As for Mr. Martin, Sherman, and others, I would also be interested in knowing about online links to older news articles about any of the people involved. I have been working on the wikipedia biographies of people involved with horses, the things they do besides their "horse life" is usually very interesting; I have previously worked on articles such as Sheila Varian and William Robinson Brown. One of my other projects right now is Bazy Tankersley. I also recently did quite a bit of work to improve the article on Rosie Napravnik; looks like Espinoza's article is in pretty poor shape, (awful shape, really) I may try to add that one to my to do list. Thanks again for the information and I appreciate your help! Montanabw(talk) 18:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Verify?

Is it correct that there are TWO fillies who are full sisters to California Chrome? [htdesigned //www.harrisfarms.com/index.php/10-foals/98-lucky-pulpit-out-of-love-the-chase-chestnut-filly-foaled-january-13 2013] and 2014 - except that the 2014 filly seems to have two different birthdays/. ( see also - Harris farms needs to proofread their web site!) They'd be smart to date by year the individual pages too, the way they did in 2013. (Just saying...) Is is correct that Love the Chase had no foal in 2012? Montanabw(talk) 02:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are two fillies. No foal in 2012. LTC was bruised during Chrome's foaling. The first foal is designed by nature to be small to protect the mare, whose uterus is of a specific elasticity. That was not the case with California Chrome. He was a large and active foal. You are correct 2014 foal date Feb 2 not 22. Harris has a lot of people involved each with their own function ie. vet, intern, manager, general manager, administrative. They are a professional operation and sometimes wires get crossed. The issue currently will be the safety of LTC and her offspring and information should be cut back. It would be smart. Sorry had to edit response my android has a mind of its own.

Dang cell phones! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 01:37, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just an FYI that I haven't abandoned the project, just got busy in Real Life (we're all volunteers around here!) I'll ping you here when there is another round of edits completed. I found a site (Horse Racing Nation) that sort of verifies the majority/minority ownership of the horse, which I will add, but we will eventually have to find something better... the gods of wikipedia (said tongue in cheek...) don't like HRN for some reason, probably because it's open source and anyone can add material, so it's not always as reliable as other sites. I wish that either Equibase or the Jockey Club were less hush-hush about ownership stuff; though I suppose given that so many racehorses turn over so fast and some people want to keep their identities quiet, oh I guess it makes sense... Montanabw(talk) 03:59, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thoughts?

Saw this headline and went Facepalm Facepalm (grin). http://msn.foxsports.com/horse-racing/story/california-chrome-has-connections-dreaming-of-kentucky-derby-victory-041614 I'd like to add the bit about how the horse's owners didn't want to run him on turf and that Sherman is good with young horses; that seems pretty accurate. (The hyperbole, well, OK, somebody has to do it, I guess, but Facepalm Facepalm he's messing with my trifecta odds! LOL!). Montanabw(talk) 19:25, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Article says synthetic track. Synthetic is polymer enhanced. Turf is grass. Sounds like a misquote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.119.81 (talk) 22:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Meh, that was my error, I said "turf" when I meant "synthetic." Sheesh. My bad! Golden Gate Fields in SF is closer to horse's owners, though, I think - that's a synthetic surface, isn't it? Was it location they were referring to, maybe? Oh well, will just not add that bit, will add in the stuff about why Sherman was picked. In these days of the PETA kerfuffle, always good to emphasize people who are good to their horses, IMHO. Got so many news articles posted at the talk page that it's getting ridiculous, so many of them just repeat the same material, but often they are about half repeat with 1-2 new tidbits, such a pain to go through. (sigh) Got sidetracked today by creating equine agility. Heh, people running with the ponies! Was a fun diversion. Why I love wikipedia... perfect place for those of us with a truly random access memory! ;-) Montanabw(talk) 23:43, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just sharing

This article rated a "SCOMN" = My invented acronym for: "Snorted coffee out my nose": "Churchill Downs oddsmaker Mike Battaglia told the Courier on Saturday, “I don’t think anybody is really sold on California Chrome.” Maybe Battaglia needs to get out more..." Direct quote. Made me laugh. This article is packed with really fascinating trivia. (note to self: Must. resist. temptation. to.bog. article. down. with. irrelevant. trivia!) I can't seem to get anyone interested in giving me a third party review on the article, but might ping a few people. Always interesting to see how non-horse people view these. Glad to see you are lurking and watching. FYI- remember to log in before you reply, otherwise your IP address shows, which indicates your location.  ;-) Montanabw(talk) 01:29, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One more LOL: http://www.oregonlive.com/drinks/2014/04/5_kentucky_derby_horses_reimag.html Montanabw(talk) 02:13, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thoughts? Response

Liked the Coomes article. Again not wanting to start on some surface any surface looks like a misquote or mis-speak so his discussion on surfaces is accurate. All you have to do is go to equibase for description of surfaces or you can go to park websites for track surface/maintenance info. All of the Derby contenders have to overcome obstacles. The favorite is sometimes thought of as a jinx. Horse people are very superstitious. The races depend on good health and a clean break. The large 20 horse field where each is bent on winning leads to bumping, jostling, etc. The winning horse needs good post position, good break from the gate, and clear positioning before the first turn.

Most of these articles are opinion interjected with a few facts. Need to take some of these with a grain of salt.

This is interesting. http://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/page/content.detail/id/545433/Kentucky-Derby-bound.html?nav=5006

Have you tried the drinks? LOL.

May have to try those! I'm more a wine person as a rule, but I like the sound of the "California Chrome" (I like citrus- but must confess the Wicked Strong sounds good too -- wish they'd do one up for Vicar's in Trouble... then I'd have my trifecta!) I did learn to make a pretty decent mint julep for a Kentucky Derby party I threw a few years ago - even cooked up my own non-alcoholic version for the tetotallers -- basically sweet lemonade with a bunch of mint leaves in it (seems like I had another ingredient, have to see if I can find the recipe again, I think I wrote it down, I modified some other lemonade drink...)
I like that Iron Mountain article, at last a source on the ownership percentages ;-) (Horse Racing Nation seems to have taken down what they had). What a grand lady, my own mom is 86. Yes, the racing press and everyone else is a little nutso; I notice how much sources contradict each other and how often they are just plain wrong, particularly when the reporters are not horse people. I've seen this in other areas of my life, things I've been at firsthand are often reported in a way very differently from what was actually going on. Frustrating.
Wish I could use Twitter as a source on wikipedia, but I can't - just found California Chrome's twitter feed today - too bad we can't use the photos there, either; hey are deemed copyrighted by their uploaders. I'd about give my eyeteeth for more/better photos for the article, but unless they are a free license (like the photo you uploaded) we can't. I've been searching Flickr for images with a free license, but everything of him there is copyrighted so far. (d'oh!)
In wikipedia land, I am rather chuffed that the Featured article review just passed Mucho Macho Man to FA status today, I've been working on that one since just before the Breeders' Cup, and it was a long slog to get it the gold star. Once I have 'Chrome up to at least good article quality, I'm thinking about going back a bit and fixing up the article on Zenyatta, it's not very good. Oh, did you see this on the Zenyatta web site? OK, enough of my random ramblings, off to other things now... thanks again for the article link! Montanabw(talk) 05:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Zenyatta is a beautiful girl!

👍 Like I'll be back to the CC article with a serious round of adding more material from the newer news stories as I can; am actually out of town on a horse consulting gig in real life at the moment as opposed to being stuck in the office all day long in my other work. But very much want this article up to snuff and accurate before Derby day, let me know if you see any more particularly good articles that I should look at; I've got about 8 new ones in my pile, many repeat themselves but no two exactly alike... it's not the reading or even the writing, it's the footnoting and markup syntax that slows me down. (phooey) Montanabw(talk) 19:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see how much the press cribs from wikipedia (grin)

Just added this (see stuff highlighted on the right hand column). So far nothing in the mainstream press on the Electronic Failure Analysis handbook, but I found it on Amazon and used some stuff from the cover blurb. Curious how long it will take for Blood-Horse or the AP to pick this up; The Horse cribbed me on Thunder (mascot) during the Super bowl, and someone at Blood-Horse almost copied me verbatim once on a different article ... heh, heh...  ;-) (Sitting back, grabbing popcorn, watching the show...) FYI and FWIW, the article Tigerboy, Froggerlaura, and I (plus a couple other folks) worked on about Oxbow (horse) will be Wikipedia's main page article for Preakness day this year. Montanabw(talk) 19:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the article updates and that great new article, I had to make a few edits to keep stuff somewhat in the neighborhood of the material cited and what the MTL web site says (Can't find anything saying "Avionics" testing in the press or the web site) , ;-) I'm personally learning a lot about how many things the press can get wrong; I used to just think that they misspelled names and were guilty of comma splices, but the hiccups here are unbelievable; so far, according to the press, Coburn's dream was somewhere between 3 days and 3 weeks before the foal was born, the person who said "dumbass" was either a groom or a trainer, Sherman has been training anywhere between 1976 and 1980; ... sheesh, reporters don't fact-check too well, do they? I saw one article where it said Chrome's dam was his grandsire (!), and another saying Coburn owns the company where he works, (found their web site, doesn't look like he does, but if he has a financial interest there, point me to a source if you know of one.) Meh... the nice thing about Wiki is that we can fix our foulups, the Associated Press is forever, even online. Montanabw(talk) 17:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Coburn originally attributed the dumbass comment to trainer Greg Gilchrist. Denise Martin corrected Coburn that it was the groom who made the comment during the Santa Anita Derby press conference. Coburn promptly added ok someone/whoever. There are many reasons for the ambiguous information. Perhaps these are small issues in the grand scheme of things. greensodagal(talk) 17:00, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Hi Greensodagal, just a heads up that this article has gotten 75,000 hits since since May 1, 25,000 of which were the day after the Derby. click here We also got a number of vandalism hits (some pretty mean-spirited, others just kids being stupid) So, per the wikipedia policy WP:BLP, we can't put ANYTHING in there that isn't sourced to an outside source. We also had someone erase ALL the info about the owners, and I put it back. So, the background on the owners has to come from citable third-party published sources, otherwise we have to toss it. I know that's got to be frustrating. (Especially because the press is soooooo reliable on this story) I'm sitting on about 20 articles trying to figure out what to insert and what not to. Feel free to post more links to any news stories you think are partcularly good. Getting to this article soon. Montanabw(talk) 05:58, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few others I'm reading now. Comments?


Sources Response

Thank you for the information. You do good work.

Haskins writes a good story quality article.

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Greensodagal&oldid=607839799"