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Talk:LGBTQ rights in Saudi Arabia

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 209.50.138.253 (talk) at 18:52, 10 February 2015 (→Yet another). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Criminal code

In additional to the advisory opinion (from the 1920s) two royal decrees also touch upon the subject of homosexuality directly. They should probably be mentioned in the section on the criminal code. The two that come to mind would be;

  • Rules of Apprehension, Temporary Custody& Precautionary Detention Regulation
  • The Executive Regulation of the Law of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice

I am not entirely sure how to sign this, but its TomJeffersonIII

HIV/AIDs

Why is there an HIV/AIDs section on a page titled LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia? shouldn't that warrent its own page considering most people with HIV/AIDs in Saudi Arabia probably aren't LGBT? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Play10000 (talk • contribs) 22:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree. I can see why the author wanted to include HIV/AIDS in this article, given the stigma regarding HIV/AIDS associated with the LGBT community. However, the majority of the information in this section does not appear related to LGBT rights, so I would suggest either removing it completely or greatly reducing the length/focus of it. Fred.Pendleton (talk) 19:29, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the 1980s/1990s, the pandemic was certainly associated with male homosexuality in the Kingdom. Certainly, associated in the mind of the government and the general public. At least one of the laws concerning AIDS was based on this assumption and about the only time that the Saudi press could say something nice about gay people, was in terms of a celebrity dying of AIDS/HIV. [[TomJeffersonIII] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.127.166.57 (talk) 20:31, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Gosh this page needs a lot of work! I hope I eliminated some of the outright misinformation. Why the heck is censorship and the prohibition of nightclubs discussed here? Are they gay issues? The police also raid heterosexual parties. Why is the US Don't Ask, don't tell policy' mentioned here? Is that related to Saudi Arabia? Why are conditions on Camp mentioned? Would that not be better in the WikiTravel tour guide? I am not happy with this at all. Paul, in Saudi 18:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

TomJeffersonIII says (with great wisdom) one aspect of the government's censorship has been on how LGBT themes were allowed to talked about and in what context. That's just in printed media. With the Internet the government has blocked access to certain webpages because they advocated gay rights (largely by dumping it into the same category as pornography). Having lived/worked in Saudi Arabia -- albeit some time ago -- "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was not a terribly inaccurate way to describe the social situation (at least for the middle class -- which was pretty multi-ethnic/national). You sort of hoped -- given the legal circumstances -- that your boss "didn't ask" and you certainly understood that you better not "tell". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.127.166.57 (talk) 20:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted Text

(Just to make things easier, I will toss the stuff I am cutting here. If anyone want to discuss my edits this makes it easier.) Paul, in Saudi 05:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Movie theaters and nightclubs are prohibited, but theaters are allowed on the Aramco compounds albeit any films shown are censored and available long after they have been released in America or Western Europe. Westerns often prefer to use the theatre for the exhibition of local musicans, plays, and artists. It is unlikely that the production of plays is subject to any offical censorship board as many of the comedy plays often make jokes about American politicians and even include characters that cross-dressed.
Satellite television is illegal, but the rule is generally ignored and thus members of the middle class can gain access to less censored Arabic and English news and entertainment, although the Saudi government has been known to jam the signal when satellite programming includes criticism of the Saudi royal family. The satellight programming does not appear to censor television sitcomes that make refence to homosexuality, although popular American shows such as Will & Grace and Queer as Folk, with more explict homosexuals themes, have not aired.


Middle-class foreigners living on an Aramco compound are likely to find the atmosphere more relaxed with a unofficial policy of tolerance provided that gay employees maintain a public image of confirmed bachelors, and keep their homosexual behavior in private homes, and do not involve Saudi citizens, married adults or minors.
[1].
rganization is permitted to exist. The underground Green Party of Saudi Arabia is the only political organization in Saudi Arabia that supports gay rights. Forigners should not expect assistance from their country of origin if they are arrested for homosexuality. Informal and discreet social networks do exist, but are subject to police harassment and arrest. Due to the Islamic mores that require the segregation of the sexes, foreigners will notice a degree of situational bisexuality.

Expat Gay and Lesbian Community

Middle class gay and lesbian westerners living on an Aramco compound will generally be able to avoid harassment if they present a public image of heterosexuality or assexuality, avoid relationships with minors, married adults or with Saudi citizens. On the private Aramco compiunds, the local law enforcement operates under slightly more relaxed rules then the rest of the nation and will be willing to ignore the private lives of employees as long as their is suffient plausible denibilty to do so. However, the Aramco Oil company has no non-discrimination policy, and thus the unwritten policy amounts to something similar to Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Gay women, are likely to be even more invisible then gay men due to the restrictions placed on women in the kingdom. Like gay men, they shall be treated as bachelors, but will not be allowed to drive off the Aramco compound. While all the reports on punishment for homosexuality have involved men, female homosexuality is certainly equally illegal and gay would should take the same precautions as gay or bisexual men.

I deleted the above section (again, I think). It is not accurate, it is not relevant, it is not wise. 1) It is not accurate. Westerners on non-Aramco compounds have much the same life as on Aramco compounds. The main Aramco compound is called 'Camp,' by the way. How about non-Western Gays? Do they count? Is the Wiki a Westerner-only source? 2) It is not relevant. This mentioning of 'Don't ask, don't tell' has nothing to do with the subject at hand. (Why is it bolded?) 3. It is not wise. Drawing attention to the Gay/Lesbian lifestyle in Saudi Arabia may put people's lives at risk. Why do it? Paul, in Saudi 17:53, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Slow Motion Revert War!

OK, I deleted the above again. Micahbrwn added it back again with no comments. He does not seem to read his talk page.

Look, I live in Saudi Arabia. I am writing this in Saudi Arabia. I know of what I speak. Will & Grace airs here. I like the show. There is no reputable evidence the Saudi government does (or can) censor satellite TV. Saying otherwise is simply false.

There are a number of Gay communities here. They are generally segregated by nationality. I deleted the mention of them (again) out of a simply desire that we keep people safe and out of jail.

Look, maybe I am wrong to delete the section on Aramco, but can we at least discuss it? Paul, in Saudi 04:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Falacious and Prejudiced Information

I removed the following from the Saudi gay and lesbian community section:

Officially, there are no LGBT Saudi citizens because all citizens are Muslim and homosexuality and cross-dressing are judged to be against the teachings of Islam. Instead there are only criminals, mostly foreigners, who engage in such immoral activities and thus the only public acknowledgment of LGBT people in the kingdom are new reports about people being punished for specific acts.

This entire paragraph appears to be falacious and based on superstitious and prejudiced beliefs. Not all citizens of Saudi Arabia are Muslim. Only in the government's eyes are there no LGBT citizens. Homosexuality and "cross-dressing" (i.e., transgenderism) are only judged by some people to be against the teachings of Islam; many Islams do not subscribe to this belief. The entire final sentence is rubbish on its face, clearly the work of someone with a homophobic agenda.

Cory Fryling 00:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me you misunderstand the paragraph. To me, it is saying the same thing as you. YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 08:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute with anon editor

The thing below was posted on my talk page. (I rvted his edit with the summary:
209.50.138.253 I am using reliable sources. If you have reliable source contradicting this we can put both in the article.
journalists/writers Whitaker, Bradley, Lobi, and Lacey all have spent a lot of time in Saudi) --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:12, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Don't change back sources on the LGBT RIGHTS IN Saudi Arabia page

The author you spoke of never actually visited in Saudi Arabia and I've consulted with people who lives there and tells me that homosexuality doesn't exist, the amount of homosexuals there are so low that it's basically non-exisitant. I'm giving you one more warning if you undo my edit one ore time I'll report you for starting an edit war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.50.138.253 (talk) 19:54, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yet another

Another revert by 209.50.138.253 --BoogaLouie (talk) 01:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC) Prove that they were in Saudi Arabia anyone can just make up that they went there an "interviewed" these people. Especially because they're all Iranian and Americans, not actually from a Saudi news-person. How do we know they're legit? They could easily just be pushing their lifestyle choice? And I actually have a friend named Aryaf Al-shehri (an real married Saudi women) and she tells me that she hasn't experienced any homosexuals in Saudi Arabia. Ask her yourself at twitter.com/aryafology. Tell her that Jacob (me) told you to ask her.[reply]

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