Talk:Duke Zhuang of Zheng

China Start‑class High‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility Start‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

WRONG Title

The title of this article is wrong. He was a "Sir" and a "Count", but NOT a "Duke".

Some Chinese words have multiple meanings. The same word "gong" can mean duke or sir, depending on the placement of the word. This is how ancient Chinese title works:

Wei Gong = Duke of Wei, Wei Xuan Gong = Sir Xuan of Wei. He really was a duke, the 1st rank.

Song Gong = Duke of Song, Song Xion Gong = Sir Xion of Song. He really was a duke, the 1st rank.

Qi Hou = Marques of Qi, Qi Huan Gong = Sir Huan of Qi, not Duke Huan of Qi because he was only a marques, the 2nd rank.

Jin Hou = Marques of Jin, Jin Wen Gong = Sir Wen of Jin, not Duke Wen of Jin because he was only a marques, the 2nd rank.

For this article, Zheng Bor = Count of Zheng, Zheng Zhuang Gong = Sir Zhuang of Zheng, not Duke Zhuang of Zheng because he was only a count, the 3rd rank.

Titles are a tricky thing, you have to understand the rules. For example, Lady Diana = she was born to the rank of a lady, Lady Spencer = she was married into the rank of lady.

Because whoever created these pages of ancient Chinese personage did not understand this distinction, most of the titles for these people are wrong.

Also, every Chinese word has a meaning and a moniker tells you more than just a name. Gong-Shu-Duan tells you several things. Gong = the city of his benefice, Shu = the younger brother of Sir Zhuang of Zheng, Duan = his personal name.

This is similar to understanding Roman names such as Gaius Julius Caeser. Gaius = his personal name, Julius = his family name, Caeser = branch of the family.

VimalaNowlis (talk) 06:55, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]