Talk:List of wars involving Russia
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List format / content
Could editors please see and contribute to the discussion here:
Talk:List of wars involving Great Britain#List format / content
Thanks. David (talk) 17:08, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Um
...the Cold War? can it at least be mentioned? 50.54.221.0 (talk) 01:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Missing wars?
Is the Russian military involvement in the baltic independence movements a war? January_Events_(Lithuania), The_Barricades
Modifying modern Russia section
It's unnecessary to list all the people's republics within the Novorossiya confederation. It's also unnecessary to list 'Georgian government' when all other belligerents are referred to by their country. Also, the war in Ukraine is a war, not a conflict. Also, the North Ossetia paramilitary name should be abbreviated. Does anyone object to these changes? DylanLacey (talk) 07:28, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
World War II starting in 1941 ?
According to this article it seems that World War II started in 1941. According to the vast majority of historians, and also Wikipedia, World War II started in September 1939 with the nazi/communist attack on Poland. Since the Soviet Union changed side in the war in 1941, from then on fighting on the same side as the democratic nations, one practical way of presenting this, considering the unique position of the Soviet Union, might be to divide World War II into two sections, before and after June 1941 respectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.232.224.158 (talk) 17:01, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
- 1941 refers to the period when the Soviet Union entered World War II as part of the Allied Powers. The Soviet Union was never on the side of Germany. They signed a non-aggression pact. DylanLacey (talk) 06:21, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Why France as Ally and Thailand as Axis?
Thailand has been occupied by Japan in 1941, why it is as "Axix" in WWII section?--5.228.251.127 (talk) 23:42, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Why is the War in Afghanistan Considered a "stalemate"?
The USSR didn't achieve its military goals and the DRA fell after the Soviet withdrawal. That's pretty much the same situation as the US in Vietnam, and that's listed as a "defeat" on the list of US wars. There should be a consistent standard here throughout Wikipedia. JohnM.Kelly (talk) 19:36, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed, these are both defeats for occupying forces and should be listed similarly. No Matter How Dark (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- @JohnM.Kelly: Consider reading WP:OR. It was not a defeat but withdrawal. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
- Do you have RS for 'defeat'? If not, it's problematic and I'd have to qualify the use of that description as OR as I don't see how it meets with any of the criteria for WP:SYNTHNOT. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Iryna Harpy: Keeping it withdrawal per WP:BRD. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 04:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I'd accept 'withdrawal'. I know that it's used as a parallel to the Vietnam War, but the circumstances were far more complex, and certainly there was no period of stability for any relevant period of time suggesting the marking of the end of war in that region, full stop. On those grounds, I don't see how Wikipedia can ascribe 'defeat' in the same sense that the Vietnam War was a US defeat. There are certainly situations where being consistent in the use of terminology is of value for the sake of parity, but this isn't one of them (again invoking WP:SYNTH). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- When was there a stoppage in fighting? The article on the Afghan Civil War talks about fighting continuing in the spring of 1989 right after the Soviet withdrawal in February, and in 1990. The siege of Khost continued into 1991. The separation of the Afghan Civil War into separate articles seems wholly arbitrary (but that's beyond the scope of this one page). Again, why isn't there a separate article for the "American War in Vietnam" or for any other war where countries entered and exited the conflict? Looking through the old discussion on the Vietnam War on the US wars page, a point was made about "withdrawal" not being a "result" of a war. The lists of wars are a good collective resource, so it seems like there would be an effort to have the same standards across them. The Soviets didn't partially achieve some of their goals so the old describer of "stalemate" doesn't work either. Here's a Foreign Affairs article referring to it as a defeat on several occasions, although I'm sure you could find plenty of academic sources calling it both a stalemate/withdrawal and a defeat, respectively, so a lack of sources isn't the issue for either end of the discussion. JohnM.Kelly (talk) 05:52, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I'd accept 'withdrawal'. I know that it's used as a parallel to the Vietnam War, but the circumstances were far more complex, and certainly there was no period of stability for any relevant period of time suggesting the marking of the end of war in that region, full stop. On those grounds, I don't see how Wikipedia can ascribe 'defeat' in the same sense that the Vietnam War was a US defeat. There are certainly situations where being consistent in the use of terminology is of value for the sake of parity, but this isn't one of them (again invoking WP:SYNTH). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Iryna Harpy: Keeping it withdrawal per WP:BRD. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 04:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Do you have RS for 'defeat'? If not, it's problematic and I'd have to qualify the use of that description as OR as I don't see how it meets with any of the criteria for WP:SYNTHNOT. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Russian constitutional crisis
What about 1993 Russian constitutional crisis? Should be considered as conflict, because force was used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeeMusil (talk • contribs) 11:53, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
- Wars, not conflicts. As violent as the constitutional crisis was, it doesn't qualify as a war. - SantiLak (talk) 23:07, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Russian Empire in World War 1
I think the Russian empire should be definitely listed among the winners of WW1, since it was with the side of the winning allies, militarily it won the battles, and it played a crucial role, in the overall victory. The fact that the Bolsheviks did a revolution, changed the system and continued with a civil war, while signing temporary treaties, that they changed later on, unfavorable to by then, ex-Russian empire, with the Central powers, in order to leave them be, to continue with their internal changes of the system and the civil war, doesn't change that.Ron1978 (talk) 21:51, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
- If you want to make changes, start here and leave this article aline. I'm not going to waste any precious time on this. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 23:12, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
- I would like some clarification as to why the Simba Rebellion and the South Ossetian war of 92-93 have been removed from the table here. There's very little disagreement that both involved Soviet and later Russian advisors. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:13, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- South Ossetia 92-93 I removed because Russia's involvement is disputed, though I won't mind if it's reintroduced (though preferably with a footnote, and only if Russia actually participated in combat). I removed the Simba Rebellion because the USSR was not (as far as I'm aware of) involved with combat troops, which is the common definition of being at war (not having advisors behind the frontlines). I removed both in a larger clean-up where I deleted a bunch of so-called "supporters" that were not combatants, and might have gotten a bit carried away in the process. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 01:34, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- I would like some clarification as to why the Simba Rebellion and the South Ossetian war of 92-93 have been removed from the table here. There's very little disagreement that both involved Soviet and later Russian advisors. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:13, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Mikrobølgeovn if you want to keep deleting what every other user is adding in the article, as you are doing for a very long time now, you can start editing from, here and hereRon1978 (talk) 01:50, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- I don't want to change either of those articles, because they depict the events accuratly. Just like this one. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
So if you don't want to change the articles that clearly show a Russian empire's victory, then you can add the Russian's empire's victory yourself, with the rest of the allies, since if someone else adds it, then you are going to delete it, as you are doing with this and the rest of the articles that you are editingRon1978 (talk) 02:04, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- Russia surrendered to the Axis before the allied victory. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 02:07, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
A treaty for the reasons that I have previously explained, is not surrendering. You may want to check what is surrenderingRon1978 (talk) 02:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- Russia ceded enormous territory to the German Empire. That being said, this discussion does not belong here. Go to the main article's talk page, and make whatever suggestions you have there. Until the main article is changed by consensus, this one remains as it is. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 02:26, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
You do that. You behave like Wikipedia is your own blog and you are its local dictator. It is not and you are not. You are not the owner of Wikipedia. Learn to cooperate with other users and not deleting whatever, every other user is adding, as you are constantly doing in the articles. In addition if I see again anything similar about shooting me, as I saw in your talk page, I will report you. That is the last warning. Now on the subject. Russia won the battles, the Bolsheviks sighed a treaty for the reasons explained, and the treaty was nullified later on.Ron1978 (talk) 02:41, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- So try to establish a consensus on the main article's talk page. "Shoot down" is a relatively common idiom (or so I thought; either way, no harm intended), the treaty was nullified after Russia's exit from the war, and the dictator blogger is done here. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 02:48, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
The main page says allied victory. Russia was with the allies. My edits are less than my talk pages edits. I am the one that is discussing. If you want to change the main article, you can do it with consensus with other usersRon1978 (talk) 03:00, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- Russia exited the war before that outcome applies. Read the damn article. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 03:04, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- I've reviewed the articles and all the information and although both of you still need to refrain from editing the article, it is apparent that Russia was defeated, it was forced into a treaty and ceded territory as well as surrendering any allegiance to the Allies. It's a defeat, the eventual victory of the Allies doesn't matter because Russia exited the war far before that and was defeated as well with it. - SantiLak (talk) 03:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- AFAIK, Russia wasn't signatory to Versailles, & had already signed a treaty with Germany (Brest-Litovsk), so "victor" isn't accurate. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 03:16, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- I've reviewed the articles and all the information and although both of you still need to refrain from editing the article, it is apparent that Russia was defeated, it was forced into a treaty and ceded territory as well as surrendering any allegiance to the Allies. It's a defeat, the eventual victory of the Allies doesn't matter because Russia exited the war far before that and was defeated as well with it. - SantiLak (talk) 03:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Agree with Trekphiler. In addition historians say that one of the most important reasons why communism spread in Russia was because it failed to win the war. It was the same thing as with Nazism in Germany.NobleFrog (talk) 19:33, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
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