This page is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
Support - I think this could be the push that the task-force needs to get going and stay going. With enough interest, I'd be happy to handle the move myself. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 16:51, 19 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I am not active in this group, but it seems like a reasonable expansion and a good way to get targeted support on the topic. I would strongly recommend finding other people to collaborate on the articles with you, Sadads (talk) 14:20, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - But maybe we could retain the Percy Jackson Task Force as a subgroup for Riordan's young-adult mythological works (retaining that name for want of a better one) and have another subgroup for his works aimed at adults? Methychroma (talk) 07:08, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Methychroma -- I've been thinking about your idea for a while now, and my opinion is that we should avoid more subgroups because they can die out easily. But maybe we could change the members list on the project page into a table listing both usernames and interests. So, there'd be a column for listing your username, and then the next one over would list your focus/interests/expertise. Another column could even be used to indicate whether you're still active. I'm worried about officially splintering the taskforce because it's already struggling, though I understand your point. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 17:39, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. I don't know anything about "39 Clues," I've never read that, and Riordan is probably better known for his young-adult mythological works, but those are not the only thing he writes. So I think I get the point. Methychroma (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:03, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As characters from each of the books have crossed over, I am assuming that they are part of the same world. I can't say what this combined franchise is called. That would be for Rick Riordan to decide. We should hold off on the renaming until further notice. Outside of that, there should be a page for the characters in the books that detailed about the Egyptian Gods and the Norse Gods just like how we created a page for the characters from the books detailing about the Greek and Roman Gods. Any objections? --Rtkat3 (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Rtkat3: I believe your characters idea could be valid, so long as we do it in a way that meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines. To the rest of your comment: may I assume you do not support the proposed change in scope? The idea was to make the task-force's name similar to the Roald Dahl task force's, not to come up with a name to describe Riordan's works, so I'm a little confused about the meaning of "until further notice". Thanks! 2ReinreB2 (talk) 16:04, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying that if the characters from the upcoming Norse Gods book have any crossovers with the other books, perhaps the combined franchise name might be what we support if Rick Riordan gives it an name. This task force can still cover the other two books whether it is renamed or not. --Rtkat3 (talk) 16:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I think that we should change this task force to a Rick Riordan Task Force. Considering that I don't know anything about Riordan's mystery novels, I like the idea of a separate task force for the mythology novels and one for the adult novels, or the interests lists. I personally prefer keeping the task force exclusively for the mythology works, but not only for Percy Jackson and/or The Heroes of Olympus. Zussman1 (talk) 21:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
VOTE HERE
Opinions needed: Propose changes to the member requirements or project scope below. Please remember to sign your posts.
Member req.: At least three constructive edit to a page or pages in the project watchlist, or a response to a roll-call, every 3 months. Scope: task-force should cover all Rick Riordan-related articles, but not those related to the books' publishers. See the previous section on this talk page. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 04:06, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Any thoughts on the member requirements change? After trying to reconnect with older users, I think my proposal above is as good an idea as any, and I'm afraid about scaring away new contributors. I think we also need to make a scope decision soon, though the timetable on that can hold off a bit. -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 02:36, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see any problems with the member requirements. I agree that we should cover all Rick Riordan mythology related articles. Zussman1 (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Article for "The Crown of Ptolemy"
How come we don't have one yet? I guess I could read up on how to create pages and then create one for this story that's been out for months. (!?) I was just wondering. Methychroma (talk) 07:02, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You could. The main problem, according to the reviewer that declined it, seems to be that I haven't established notability and would need reviews, sales figures, etc. I don't know what reviews would be acceptable (Goodreads? Barnes and Noble? New York Times? Amazon?) and I don't know where I could get figures in terms of copies sold and so forth. Methychroma (talk) 20:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The websites PI world and Book Verdict could help you with sales figures and reviews, respectively. I'd also try Rick Riordan's and Hyperion's sites for links that could help. Let me know if there's something I can do to help.2ReinreB2 (talk) 17:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks. If you want to help edit so I can get this page available for public viewing, I'd appreciate that, too. I'd like to get on that as soon as possible because it's been about three weeks since anything has been done with that page. Isn't there a deadline before it gets deleted? Methychroma (talk) 19:05, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@MethychromaJust wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about this project. I have compiled a list of sources which I am going to transform into a reception section for your draft ASAP. Also, I looked around a bit and I can't find a deadline for deleting drafts. I think the warnings about that mainly have to do with when another user happens to come across your inactive draft -- in other words, someone has to nominate it for deletion before a deadline starts. Otherwise, there seems to be no official deadline. -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 04:14, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
With my reception section, I think its maybe 70% of the way there. A cover image would be good (can be added later, though) and I think it needs a general copyedit (the plot section needs to be shortened, for a start). With luck, it could be submitted within... two weeks? -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 19:30, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Methychroma Um... Same thing just happened with Percy Jackson's Greek Gods. Honestly, I have no idea what we do. I've reached out to more experienced users about this situation in the past, and never gotten a response. If I had to make an executive decision... In this particular case, I'd say make The Crown of Ptolemy into a redirect back to an appropriate page, and keep working on the draft. When the draft passes review, then we put all of its info into the mainspace page and delete the draft. Consensus? -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 02:39, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds okay to me. And if we can possibly move faster on these pages, before somebody unfamiliar with how to search for pages that already exist makes a duplicate draft (or two people making two duplicate drafts, or three), that would be good. I guess I know a little bit more about how to make pages that'll be accepted now. Methychroma (talk) 03:58, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@MethychromaI'll try to finish up my reception section ASAP. Been a little busy trying to track down an answer to the draft-article thing. We should also get a cover image ready to upload post-submission. I will try to have the reception section up by...next Monday? Soon as I get an uninterrupted hour I will post it in your draft so you can check it over. -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 22:38, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I believe so, yes. The lower resolution the better, and also better if it comes directly from a publisher or author's personal website, so there's no worries about you copying somebody who accidentally infringed on copyright. I'm going ahead and changing The Crown of Ptolemy over to a redirect. Hopefully it won't ruffle any feathers. -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 03:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Adding Demigods of Olympus and PJ/Kane Chronicles crossover series
Demigods of Olympus is an interactive short story series about you being a demigod (more info here and here). I have already added it the Rick Riordan page and am wondering about whether to add it to the Camp Half-Blood chronicles page and/or give it it's own page. What do you think?
On an unrelated note, should we create a page for the PJ/Kane Chronicles crossover short story series? Zussman1 (talk) 11:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to me the Demigods of Olympus series should definitely be mentioned on the Camp Half-Blood chronicles page. It also seems noteworthy enough that a draft of an article could be started -- but I would wait until there are several noteworthy secondary sources to try to make an official article. Feel free to suggest its creation in the "requests" section of the to-do list, or handle it yourself.
As far as the Kane/PJ crossover series goes, I'm not sure how continuous the stories actually are -- as in, do outside sources consider them to be a series, or just extras added in to some books? If you can track down outside sources referring to the short stories as a single unit, then I'd go ahead and get that page drafted. Otherwise, I'd hold off on that. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 22:24, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Zussman1 I came across an article which may help you to find sources that talk about the short stories as a whole series: [1] It quotes a twitter comment by Rick Riordan stating that an "anthology" of sorts is in the planning stages. It is a little old, so there may be more you or I can dig up. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 04:00, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@talk Ok, great! Thanks! I was also at his book tour event and he announced a compilation. It's called Demigods and Magicians. He also announced a new Greek mythology series called the Trials of Apollo, which will be released in May, so we have work to do! I'll try to get to work on Demigods of Olympus and Demigods and Magicians as soon as I can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zussman1 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you can remember the date and time and event, that's citable! Particularly if you took notes, but even if you didn't, that plus my source should be an excellent starting point. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 01:30, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Plot formatting in book pages
In some of the pages about the books, the prophecy section either appears as a separate section than the plot (The Titan's Curse), part of the plot (The Lightning Thief), or doesn't appear at all (Sea of Monsters). The order in which the prophecy and the summary appear isn't consistent either. For the sake of aesthetics and convenience, I feel that there should be a standard order and placement. Perhaps we should have an overarching heading called "Plot" with two subsections called "Summary" and "Prophecy"?
In the "Plot" section of The Son of Neptune the summary is very long. Should it be that way or should it be shorter?
@Zussman1: Thanks very much for bringing this up, as it bothers me, too. Here are my thoughts on each of your points:
For all articles Plot should be a main section, with a brief summary immediately below. A subsection of "Plot" should be Prophecy. A sub-subsection called Meaning should follow. This way readers will see summary --> prophecy referred to in summary --> explanation of prophecy/sum-up of plot. Almost the way The Lightning Thief is currently organized.
Shorter, shorter, shorter! The length proposed in 2009 was ≈ 400 words; I've continued that idea because I don't have a better one. The Sea of Monsters has the shortest summary. If the plot summaries on the main Percy Jackson & the Olympians and Heroes of Olympus pages are brought to ≈100 words, then we could get away with The Lightning Thief's length for individual book pages. Super-short main page summaries = medium-length book page entries. Nearly all summaries are currently too long.
If a book does not have its own unique prophecy, don't include it. Put a see-also link to the first page where the prophecy is listed (or list the prophecy on the main series page and link to there).
My main concern is keeping the plot sections to a reasonable length, so non-task-force editors won't flag our pages for having "excessively detailed" summaries. How does all that sound to you? 2ReinreB2 (talk) 23:02, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try to get on that within a week. Just from looking at it, I think some enhancements could be made to the "plot" section; perhaps giving the chapter titles and brief summaries of each? I'm not sure about that though. The reviewer's note about the validity of some sources would also be good to address. But honestly, if Percy Jackson's Greek Gods passed review, it should take very little to clean this up. I have a copy of the book on hand and experience finding PJ sources, I'll see what I can do. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 01:28, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That would be fantastic. On a note more related to the name of this section, I was thinking that maybe we could format the plot like in The Philosopher's Stone. A synopsis section, with subsections of plot, which would be organized as mentioned above (Summary, Prophecy, Meaning), and characters. This would consolidate the articles a bit and make them more organized. Zussman1 (talk) 02:54, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, we are the only task force/Wikiproject that officially monitors Rick Riordan's pages across the whole of Wikipedia -- and we only work in English. I don't think it's typical for Wikiprojects to be bilingual, but if anyone is comfortable in another language, I'd encourage you to go over Percy Jackson pages in that language. You might get some ideas, and it would be good to see the kinds of pages that are out there so we can link to them on English pages if necessary (for example, some of our pages have sections about the languages Riordan novels have been translated into). Just a quick suggestion. 2ReinreB2 (talk) 16:50, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The new name violates several guidelines about naming (particularly the need for conciseness). So it's decision time, boys: What do we call this thing?
My reasoning for this is that it would a) give it a short name, b) solve issues created by crossover stories, and c) list the Kane Chronicles characters, as has been suggested.
I agree with this proposal, except for the part about Tres Navarre, Percy Jackson (film series) and The 39 Clues. I think that we should only include the mythological books/characters for multiple reasons.
There is already a 39 Clues taskforce. Also, Rick Riordan only wrote one, or debatably, two books in the series. The series is also expansive enough to merit its own, probably rather lengthy, character page.
I don't think that we should mix Riordan's mythology and mystery works, as they are not conclusively shown to overlap like the mythology works do.
The page for the mythology works characters will probably already have enough material without adding more info about books that are only related to each other by their author.
One issue: Riordan's Egyptian and Norse mythology series also share characters with the Greco-Roman universes. I think "List of Characters in Mythology Novels by Rick Riordan" is good. Does anybody know if "list of..." is required in the title? Also, we can ask our parent project WP:NV for help/a tiebreaker deciding once we come up with some good choices over here. (Thanks for taking the initiative and discussing this, by the way.) -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 21:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I would stick to "Percy Jackson Task Force" and use "Percy Jackson universe" as an overarching term. The latter almost follows ISFDB, but "Percy Jackson Universe" is the name (uppercase U) of a series there, one with PJ Olympians and Heroes of Olympus and Kane subseries [Magnus Chase to be a subseries someday, i expect; see below]. From experience I judge that no use of "Percy Jackson Universe series" will survive at English Wikipedia and the uppercase U will not be welcome. So I would depart from ISFDB in that respect.
P.S. If Riordan, or Disney Hyperion, or whoever, does introduce some overarching term that may be considered "official", that does not mean it will be official for long, nor that all relevant Wikipedia entities must use it. Task force [pages are] free-er than any other to retain the Percy Jackson name. --P64 (talk) 02:23, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
copy-paste, posted moments ago at Talk:Magnus Chase moments ago -P64
FYI the Portuguese language site Percy Jackson Brasil covers Rick Riordan comprehensively -- all of the Percy Jackson universe series (eg Magnus Chase [4]) and other books too (eg adult mystery Cold Springs[5]).
Hello. I just wanted to ask. Why is the Mangus Chase series part of WP: PJTF because it only relates to the percy jackson series because of one fact? And this is the percy jacskson task force, not the annabeth chase task force. In my perspective, Mangus Chase has nothing to do with the percy jackson series. Spike789Talk00:25, 3 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Spike789 -- Thanks for your question! This project has long handled pages relating to Rick Riordan's other series, exclusive of the characters involved. For example, WP:PJTF began monitoring pages related to The Kane Chronicles long before the character Percy Jackson was ever mentioned in it. The name "Percy Jackson Task-force" was created as shorthand for "Percy Jackson & the Olympians Task-force" -- you can see how long that is to type -- and doesn't mean that the project covers topics solely related to that character. And, as you may know from reading older talk page posts, this project is close to becoming the "Rick Riordan Task-force" -- and Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard is one of Rick Riordan's works. -- 2ReinreB2 (talk) 02:34, 3 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
FYI it's predictable that series "Magnus Chase ..." will later be included in, ie listed under, the super-series Percy Jackson Universe at ISFDB. As series The Kane Chronicles is listed now. See the next section. --P64 (talk) 01:33, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
External links ISFDB
For all five novels in the first series recently, I added to section External links Percy Jackson Universe at ISFDB.
The Titan's Curse previously linked ISFDB for that title and I provided this edit summary: add ISFDB Percy Jackson Universe [rather than particular novel, wh may be useful as formal source. The page for a title gives an overview of and point of entry to the publication history of that title. Commonly that should be used as a formal source for a book/novel article that fits the title.
Now I see that Rick Riordan is likely to be the best ISFDB target for section External links. Only the Rick Riordan level at ISFDB now provides an adequate overview of the Percy Jackson universe, although I expect that Magnus Chase will later, perhaps soon, be moved into/under that super-series and the three "Short Fiction" entries will be double-listed there.
For the three Kane Chronicles book articles I have now added External link Rick Riordan at ISFDB. As for the five PJ Olympians pages recently, I replaced the dead official sites for the series, attributed to the UK and US publishers. Unlike PJ Olympians (http:www.percyjacksonbooks.com), I did not find a current Kane series site (c) Disney Hyperion Books, the US publisher imprint.
found it, and Magnus too, (c) Disney at readriordan.com;
What is the final decision about changing Percy Jackson's Taskforces into the Rick Riordan Taskforces. I need just to write a correct taskforce on this page
