Talk:Libya

Official name: "State of Libya"?

According to these two-sources, the official formal name of Libya is and has been "State of Libya" since ~2014. Even in the article itself under the Etymology subsection, there is an (unsourced) sentence stating: "The current name, "State of Libya" (Arabic: دولة ليبيا‎ Dawlat Libya), was adopted unanimously by the General National Congress in January 2013.". Why is the full name in the article just 'Libya'? --Sıgehelmus (Talk) |д=) 20:55, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Hellooo?--Sıgehelmus (Talk) |д=) 19:32, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Probably because there's hardly a government left. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 11:38, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

HDI and developments under Gaddafi

Currently, the lead's "recent history" paragraph reads as follows:

In 1969, a military coup overthrew King Idris I, beginning a period of sweeping social reform. The most prominent coup conspirator, Muammar Gaddafi, was ultimately able to fully concentrate power in his own hands during the Libyan Cultural Revolution, remaining in power until the Libyan Civil War of 2011, in which the rebels were supported by NATO. Since then, Libya has experienced instability and political violence which has severely affected both commerce and oil production. The European Union is involved in an operation to disrupt human trafficking networks exploiting refugees fleeing from the war for Europe.

In other words, "dictator grabbed power and did dictator stuff until NATO helped the people get freedom." I was surprised it made no mention of what is specifically addressed in the article regarding the social advancements projects in Libya under his rule and replaced it with:

In 1969, a military coup overthrew King Idris I, beginning a period of sweeping social reform. The most prominent coup conspirator, Muammar Gaddafi, was ultimately able to fully concentrate power in his own hands during the Libyan Cultural Revolution. From 1977 onward, per capita income in the country rose to the fifth-highest in Africa, while the Human Development Index became the highest in all of Africa. Without borrowing any foreign loans, this kept Libya uniquely debt-free. The Great Manmade River was also built to allow free access to fresh water across large parts of the country. Much financial support was provided for university scholarships and employment programs, making the country a popular destination for labour migrants. In 2011, the country descended into a civil war , in which the rebels were supported by NATO. Since then, Libya has experienced instability and political violence which has severely affected both commerce and oil production. The European Union is involved in an operation to disrupt human trafficking networks exploiting refugees fleeing from the war for Europe.

For unknown reasons, User:Mezigue reverted this due to alleged "POV-pushing". I noted that omitting it violates WP:DUE and that a lead should reflect the article. I was again reverted. I'm not sure there is anything other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT at work here. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 10:38, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

The POV-pushing is the reason, therefore it is not "for unknown reasons". This is not an article about Gaddafi but an article about Libya, and putting an emphasis on what you perceive to be Gaddafi's achievements in a brief outlook of the country's entire history because you are worried about his reputation is textbook POV-pushing and pretty transparent. Mezigue (talk) 12:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Mezigue. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

You have now repeatedly violated WP:GOODFAITH by assuming what my motivations or intentions are, and I'm warning you that that's not how one is supposed to communicate with others on Wikipedia. I will disregard any comments of yours about what you believe my agenda is here. You have not yet given a reason as to why you removed it, and have not yet proven why it's POV. Please properly engage in discussion without resorting to that again. For the record, completely leaving out 40 years of a country's history is problematic to say the least. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 16:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

1) I have not violated WP:GOODFAITH or assumed anything. You made your motivation clear in your earlier message: In other words, "dictator grabbed power and did dictator stuff until NATO helped the people get freedom." 2) I have given my reason for removing it. It's right there in my earlier message, but I'll say it again in case you did not understand: the introduction is a brief outline of the entire history of the country, and does not need glossy details selected to spin a fallen regime's reputation. 3) there is a paragraph on the Gaddafi period in the article (and also of course a dedicated article). It mentions the oil boom, the social advances and also the sponsoring of terror, military adventures etc... So it's not "completely left out". It is all there. 4) Disregard all you want but then do not keep repeating that I have not explained what I did explain. Mezigue (talk) 17:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

If you can't keep civil, I will not discuss it with you but add a tag for further discussion instead. Accusatory, assumptive and/or dismissive statements aren't helping. You accused me of POV-pushing a number of times, twice before I made that statement, meaning it was not because of that. I did not "make my motivation clear" when I wrote what I saw. And "putting an emphasis on what you perceive to be Gaddafi's achievements" is incorrect, as the article discusses literally this in the body and this is properly sourced. I would like to remind you that the lead should reflect the article. I take particular offense to "because you are worried about his reputation" and "spin a fallen regime's reputation". Such a claim is entirely unjustified. Not once have I accused you of intending to damage his/its reputation or promoting that of NATO. I would like it if you could do the same. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 20:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Very worrying what you report Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde). Indeed if all wikipedias in most languages report that income and HDI rose by Gadafi, this deserves to be mentioned. Besides, by African standards is an astonishing feat. Green beret1972 (talk) 15:45, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Sources for official name

Two sources are included re its official name: The EU and the CIA World Fact Book. If you follow the links, both sources say its official name is plain "Libya". "Libya" is also the name used and notified to UN. If it's been changed to "State of Libya" proper sources are needed to show this. In the meantime I've removed the references to "State of" and the statement concerning a change having been made which did not cite any sources whatsoever. For avoidance of doubt:

• U.S. CIA world factbook lists "Libya" as the long form name;
• EU lists "Libya" as long form name;
• UN uses "Libya" and includes the following note "Following the adoption by the General Assembly of resolution 66/1, the Permanent Mission of Libya to the United Nations formally notified the United Nations of a Declaration by the National Transitional Council of 3 August changing the official name of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to "Libya" and changing Libya's national flag."Frenchmalawi (talk) 14:55, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

"Bangladeshies"

This should read "Bangladeshis", but I can't make the change myself without possibly damaging the link.213.127.210.95 (talk) 15:39, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

The spelling "Lybia"

Is the spelling "Lybia" a valid historical spelling or just wrong? For disclosure pertains to the requested move of Lybia (crab genus) seen here.--Prisencolin (talk) 07:05, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I think so, see here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lybia

International Recognition of Rival Governments

The legitimacy of the two rival governments in Libya is obviously a conscientious issue, but it should be noted that there were previous revisions of this article where the Tobruk-based government was repeatedly named as 'internationally recognised', despite only having gained such recognition from minorities in the Egyptian and Russian governments, whilst the Tripoli-based is recognised internationally and by the UN as a more viable and legitimate legislature. This can be verified by multiple media articles and organisations as well as a number of NGOs, e.g.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-partition-trump-administration-sebastian-gorka

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-idUSKBN12F051?il=0

However, there is some dispute as the Tobruk government did gain some international recognition before the Tripoli government was re-established, perhaps leading to some confusion:

http://www.ecfr.eu/mena/mapping_libya_conflict — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.196.122 (talk) 11:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)