Talk:NSEL case

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Thank you AnomieBOT for updating important information with relevant citations. --Michaeltibbs (talk) 08:29, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Seasoned editors please guide how to improve the page Nimrodindia (talk) 17:58, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

No one interested in Editing this page?? Nimrodindia (talk) 03:28, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

This page is a mess. Someone please rewrite this to reflect an encyclopedic article instead of a running commentary. 122.166.156.246 (talk) 15:51, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Vandals please keep away as the changes will be immediately reverted back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimrodindia (talk • contribs) 08:43, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Rampant vandalizing by NSEL -FTIl guys. please stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urshah (talk • contribs) 11:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

This page has no structure. Lots of irrelevant information need to be cleaned up.--Michaeltibbs (talk) 11:32, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Editors please keep page neutrality on mind. —  Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathmar (talk • contribs) 07:36, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

There are several information on the page which are completely vague and have no evidence to support them whatsoever. This does not seem to be in the favor of the neutrality policy of Wikipedia and seems like a complete violation.

Deathmar stop being a vandal. The content is built over 2 years not to be redirected to a 3 line page. Urshah (talk) 13:09, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

What is the purpose of a new page just to discuss something that happened to the company? Why can't it be a subhead on the original page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathmar (talk • contribs) 13:39, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

NSEL as an exchange is defunct and the scam page is important now. Don't bring your hidden agenda Urshah (talk) 05:23, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

NSEL page talks about the same. Merging the two would make sense. Agree with Urshah that it needs to be populated further Johnsonwatts (talk) 05:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Check my latest edits. The article is heavily biased and needs clean-up. Refer WP:Vandalism and WP:POV Adamtheroux (talk) 06:03, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Made a few more edits. Most of the citations are outdated and the case has moved to an entirely different direction. Biased viewpoints are supported by scans on scribd which are not worthy of citations. The page still needs a lot of edits to neutralize the tone as per Wikipedia guidelines. Adamtheroux (talk) 07:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

A few of scam masterminds agents are active on this page. Forcibly tried to redierct the scam page to NSEL (national Spot exchange ltd) page which is wrong as the exchange is non operational and it is scam that is being dealt with. Indianmatador (talk) 03:14, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Few imposters are trying to leverage NSEL scam to their advantage. Please refer WP:NPOV WP:MERGE WP:UNDUE to understand the page must be aligned as is National Spot Exchange Deathmar (talk) 13:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

The exchange is dead, the scam is alive. Hope people get this straight dope. Indianmatador (talk) 14:59, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

The article lacks balance and seems non-neutral. If you go into the details of the case, there's enough evidence that there cannot be one established viewpoint. Hence to blame any individual/ entity / organisation seems far fetched and possibly against WP: Vandalism For ex: there has been fresh evidence found that suggests black money being pumped in by NSEL brokers (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/nsel-scam-suspicion-mounts-on-brokers-routing-black-money/articleshow/51764899.cms) but that is nowhere been mentioned. This needs effective clean up and updating. Neutral viewpoints welcome. Johnsonwatts (talk) 05:35, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Merge with NSELJohnsonwatts (talk) 05:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

This article cannot be merged with NSEL as the exchange has gone belly up and the scam case lingers on. It's very clear Johnsonwatts is working for scamsters. Indianmatador (talk) 11:39, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

There is a section on NSEL brokers, any news on brokers must be put there rather than vandalizing the page 08:10, 17 April 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indianmatador (talk • contribs)

Edits of 18 April 2016 clearly prove Jignesh Shah's men are vandalizing this page. Neutrality warning to be removed unless there is a discussion here. Indianmatador (talk) 17:20, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

This is a talk page Indianmatador, stop accusing editors and indulge in healthy discussions. The bias in this article is clear, instead of supporting the clean-up, you're interfering in the process. Request you to contribute towards Wikipedia neutrality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathmar (talk • contribs) 05:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I second Deathmar. There are a few biased statements which are supported through self-published sources or news from 2-3 years ago. This article needs clean-up and probably deserves expert attention. Jennirich (talk) 12:50, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

All these editors Deathmar and Jennirich were just born to vandalize this page. (perhaps one person with multiple IDs) Clear Bias and hidden agenda of protecting scammers. Nimrodindia (talk) 14:56, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Those who have not contributed at all in building this page have hidden agenda and keep reverting the page to suit their needs Urshah (talk) 03:46, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Nimrodindia and Urshah : All the edits have been made under Wikipedia guidelines and in fact you've been trying to revert the page back to its biased form. If you keep doing that, the page will be deleted under WP:POV — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamtheroux (talk • contribs) 05:21, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Fake IDs trying to put the page into conflict. Kindly refrain. Jennirich (talk) 05:42, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

People like Jennirich Adamtheroux Deathmar (all same person) with agenda have been unleashed on this page. Obviously trying to save the scammers. CMshah (talk) 05:47, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Jennirich was born only a day back solely to vandalize this page. I've built it over last 2 years Nimrodindia (talk) 05:58, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Whoever feels the edits are unjust, please cite your reasons here on the talk page and don't indulge in conflict war. It will only result in the page being flagged. Nimrodindia, Urshah, CMshah and Indianmatador — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennirich (talk • contribs) 06:17, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree - this page is a mess and needs to be reorganized

I agree that the page is a mess. I suggest that this page be organized in the same manner as other financial fraud pages on Wikipedia. My suggestions - follow the format used in the following wikis :

• Bernie Madoff
• Ponzi scheme / Charles Ponzi
• Enron scandal (Though I personally find this page also messy. I prefer the above two)
• Anubhav Plantations scam
• Harshad Mehta Scam

Sugegsted layout of revamped wiki - - Brief introduction - History and formation - Modus Operandi - Scam revealed and investigations - Resulting controversies and allegations - aftermath I think most of the current material will fall under "Modus operandi - Scam revealed and investigations" with a bit such as the mention of Sucheta Dalal falling under controversies (we do need a more credible citation for this - writing a letter is sufficient to suggest awareness but it does not suggest involvement . She may have written a later stating that they feel something is wrong and asking for more information - as their organization does in a large number of cases. (Example of the above fallacy: I know Sharad Pawar is corrupt. I may write a letter to him stating my suspicions. That does not mean I am involved in his corruption or his 1001 shell companies!)

I also feel that the article should have objective - hence any less credible citations should be avoided (blogs with other agendas) and if two different publications offer two different perspectives (thanks to the large scale prevalence of paid advertising / news in Indian newspapers), both should be offered, leaving readers to make their decisions. Any court judgements / statements / press releases by government bodies and courts however should be presented as they are. Notthebestusername (talk) 07:44, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Copied material

Just ran a copyvio check and found some noticeable material that is copied word-for-word from other sources. The link should give a good breakdown of the identified material. Anyone wishing to cleanup this article can add this to the bucketlist. Jolly Ω Janner 08:09, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Trying to clean up word-for-word copies. Nimrodindia (talk) 13:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 20 April 2016

For admin information:

This page needs the following edits:

• It needs the tag that self-published sources have been used as citations (Scanned documents on Scribd)
• The tonality of the page is disputed -- For example under one paragraph it is written that Jignesh Shah was the 'mastermind' of the scam, whereas there is not proof of that and going through the sources I've discovered that he was bailed on the basis of lack of proof.
• Again under the subhead -- Jignesh Shah's Arrest/ Involvement in the scam -- the tonality is debatable and the subhead should simply be -- Allegations on Jignesh Shah --
• Went through the links about PwC report on this issue and its content and intent have been rendered questionable and I think this should be included in the text.
• All these points are backed by citations and are factual. Yet, other admins have been deliberately trying to hide this fact and therefore I think they are personally targeting Jignesh Shah for some reason, even though his involvement in the case was never proven.
• Other editors are spreading propaganda through this page and targeting individuals using biased tone and aggressive disruptive editing which is basically against the Wikipedia policy.
• This is a neutral platform that deserves unbiased information and request all admins to help in the clean-up of this page. Adamtheroux (talk) 08:11, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

References

Now the article is protected I can't make any changes unless there is agreement among editors. Please seek consensus on these issues before reactivating the request. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:14, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Jignesh Shah has been arrested, Chargesheeted by Mumbai police. Held not 'fit and proper' by Forward markets Commission. The Government of India has filed a company law board petition to throw out Jignesh Shah's board from FTIL but still Adamtheroux thinks there are only 'allegations' on Jignesh Shah. He is clearly on payroll of Jignesh Shah. CMshah (talk) 08:51, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

To call Adamtherouxand his other 3-4 Avatars as 'editors' is a joke. All IDs were created just to edit NSEL scam page to suit their needs. I'm the one who has built this page since 2 years. Some points-

• Scribd citations can be certainly used as they provide a copy of the original document.
• Tonality: Has been explained above by CMshah. Jignesh Shah has been chargesheeted by Mumbai police. held unfit and improper by commodity market regulator. Bail is a right in India and does not absolve you of the offence.
• This is a neutral platform . Sure it is check edits of [[User:Adamtheroux|Adamtheroux] Jennirich Deathmarand it will prove they are trying to make this platform anything but neutral.
• Any disputed data can be discussed here and we can reach a consensus if it deserves to be there.

Thanks Nimrodindia (talk) 09:03, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

I have taken a closer look at the edit history of the article and blocked a few of the edit warriors. Hopefully there will be a calmer atmosphere when protection expires. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

A big shout out to you buddy (MSGJ for finally seeing the real issue. These edit warriors however may mutate into new IDs. Anyway thanks for all the hard work. Cheers. Nimrodindia (talk) 15:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Template about merger with NSEL page needs to be removed.

Those editors (or edit warriors let loose by scammers) need to either debate/justify this or this template will be removed Nimrodindia (talk) 02:58, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Unreasonable Editing

This is in relation to the reversal of my edits made by nimrodindia on 12th June 2017. The edits executed were without any specific reason and explanation leading to vandalism. I see he has removed nearly 19 references from the exiting article which were contributed over a course of time by multiple users including myself. I have spent nearly 1 year in researching about the case and almost a most in making these insightful edits with relevant citations. Infact, there are many sentences and paragraphs in the edited version which do not even have a single citation which violates verifiablity. According to my research the edited page now makes the case one-sided and biased towards a specific group of people. Below is the detailed explanation (section wise) of the edits made by myself and other respected editors on the page

Introduction: 1. NSEL was not a Ponzi scheme and was a spot exchange regulated by the Forward Markets Commission. 2. NSEL did not fail to pay its investors. On the contrary, NSEL has settled the claims of most of the trading clients.

Background: 1. NSEL trades were not illegal. NSEL was granted exemption under section 27 of Forward Contracts Regulations Act (FCRA) 2. Pair contract is the brainchild of intermediaries in order to lure the trading clients for enhancing their brokerage revenue. NSEL warned these members about selling contracts as pair contracts to their trading clients and cautioned them not to offer any assured returns. NSEL had issued circulars to its members, refraining from offering any such contracts by offering assured returns. 3. The brokers mis-sold NSEL products to their clients by assuring them fixed returns. The defaulters hypothecated stocks and produced fake warehouse receipts and siphoned the entire default money. 4. Anjani Sinha, the sacked CEO and the MD of the company, owned up the entire responsibility of the crisis in his first affidavit. However, Anjani Sinha after arrest retracted his earlier affidavit. Subsequently, after his release, Sinha admitted to the contents of his first affidavit in his statement to the Enforcement Directorate.

History: 1. NSEL was set up following the then Prime Minister’s vision for a national level spot market for both manufacturing and agricultural produce. 2. FMC was appointed the regulator in August 2011 and not 2012.

Jignesh Shah's arrest by EOW Mumbai/involvement in the scam 1. The section only talks about the first arrest of Jignesh Shah. Shah was released on bail on Aug 22, 2014 by the Bombay High Court stating that no money trail in NSEL case has been established to Jignesh Shah, NSEL or FTIL. The entire default amount has gone to defaulters.

Role of the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, FMC & the UPA Government 1. Ministry of Consumer Affairs issued a show cause notice on April 27, 2012 to NSEL based on the flawed recommendations of the FMC. NSEL replied to the notice promptly. For more than year, the DCA was silent and on July 12, 2013 it ordered NSEL to stop launching fresh contracts and to settle all existing contracts on due dates. The same FMC did a complete U-turn and on July 19, 2013 said that the exemption was silent on whether the exemption is applicable to all or specific provision of FCR Act. On July 31, 2013, NSEL was abruptly asked to shut down leading to the payment crisis. 2. While another spot commodity exchange, NCDEX Spot Exchange continued to function without a hitch

Looking at the history, nimrodindia had been suggested once by trueshes on 8th February 2016. Request you to follow wiki guidelines while contributing to Wikipedia and discuss on the talk page before making any edits on topics which need better understanding. You can refer to http://www.indialegallive.com/news-of-the-day/lead/the-final-blow-came-7133 and http://www.indialegallive.com/news-of-the-day/lead/indias-icarus-7123 to understand this case better before further contributing on the page. Request the other admins to intervene & take necessary action to avoid future vandalism attempts — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaeltibbs (talk • contribs) 12:53, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Unreasonable Editing by Michaeltibbs

There is distinct attempt to vandalize this page and shift the focus from actual fraudsters. Some points-

• Jignesh Shah in the same bail order of Mumbai HC accused of probable recipient of Hawala money of NSEL
• NSEL trades if illegal why were they stopped by Forward Market Commission and why was Jignesh Shah held not 'fit and proper'
• NSEL was a Ponzi scheme and hence MPID act was upheld by Mumbai High Court
• Enforcement directorate has also arrested Jignesh Shah on money laundering and he is only out op bail

(CMshah (talk) 12:19, 21 June 2017 (UTC))

CMshah Here's why your claims can't be accepted:

• Jignesh Shah in the same bail order of Mumbai HC accused of probable recipient of Hawala money of NSEL

 Response:  No money trail ever established against any individual or entity. http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-enforcement-directorate-fails-to-trace-money-trail-in-rs-5400-crore-nsel-scam-2075330

• NSEL was a Ponzi scheme and hence MPID act was upheld by Mumbai High Court -

 Factually Incorrect - here's why: http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/nsel-scam-sebi-readies-action-against-brokers-sees-no-ponzi/544679/

• NSEL trades if illegal why were they stopped by Forward Market Commission and why was Jignesh Shah held not 'fit and proper'-

 Redundant- Trades were legal as the Exchange was granted exemption on June 5, 2007 by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs (DCA) under Section 27 of Forward Contracts Regulations Act (FCRA). http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-nsel-did-forward-markets-commission-s-action-spook-the-market-2059598 http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/columns/g-chandrashekhar/keep-spot-exchanges-in-the-spotlight/article5012876.ece

Avoid half-baked information and please help with keeping the page updated. I am trying to updated with latest citations. You seem to be simply interested in creating noise. Is that why you were blocked out earlier too in relation to Vandalism on NSEL case. Please resort to responsible editing.

 Michaeltibbs (talk) 12:32, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Ban Anrdshr for fraud edits

A lot of vandalizing by Anrdshr who is clearly acting for NSEL scam masterminds. Needs to be banned ASAP. (Urshah (talk) 13:00, 21 June 2017 (UTC))

Vandalizing byMichaeltibbs

This person is reverting meaningful content addition and is peddling NSEL fraudster's version on Wikipedia. Needs to be banned immediately. (CMshah (talk) 05:44, 22 June 2017 (UTC))

Continuous sabotage by Michaeltibbs in spite of warnings. Clearly he is Jignesh Shah's man.

(CMshah (talk) 10:02, 22 June 2017 (UTC))

—Preceding undated comment added 12:16, 21 June 2017 (UTC)